Retroactive/Bombworks Records requesting help...

agreed

Shawn,
this Classic Metal argument is not working for Europe I think, we have several Classic Metalbands here like HAMMERFALL, GRAVE DIGGER..... who are still selling a lot of records.
And the new wave of Thrash is also doing well I think.

In general the European market is of course different from the US because here even at totally traditional festivals like KEEP IT TRUE many younger people are showing up.

As for Majors and Metalbands, I think the whole Majors have changed they have become more and more pure money making companies and there are no real musicfans left in the companies.

The future for Metal are the smaller companies especially since music TV hast lost it`s role.

As for modern bands like SLIPKNOT if this is the future of Metal, it will be the End.
They are o.k. but can not hold the candle of any 80`s bands.
Why they have success? Mainly through show and shock!! O.k. yeah the music is also not bad.

As for quality in Metal in general, I honestly have to say that there are tons of release out there that no one needs and that you have to search real hard to find any outstanding releases, sadly this includes also some of the stuff that has come from RETROACTIVE/BOMBWORKS.
To release "just good" albums is not enough.

Metalgiant wrote:

.....sadly this includes also some of the stuff that has come from RETROACTIVE/BOMBWORKS.
To release "just good" albums is not enough.

Sadly, that's your opinion.

I think that it is actually different outside the U.S in general. In Mexico we were showered with fans like never before. In Puerto Rico people had to buy tickets to see Jacobs Dream. Here in our own home town in Ohio people just look at us as some local garage band and treat us as such in most cases. Now u know why we are play in Germany next week.

Quote :

can not hold the candle of any 80`s bands.

Opinion...not fact.

Quote :

Why they have success? Mainly through show and shock!

Slipknot has been going for 10 years now and still as popular as ever...how long did Quiet Riot stay on top? LOL!

Metalgiant wrote:

Shawn,
this Classic Metal argument is not working for Europe I think, we have several Classic Metalbands here like HAMMERFALL, GRAVE DIGGER..... who are still selling a lot of records.
And the new wave of Thrash is also doing well I think.

In general the European market is of course different from the US because here even at totally traditional festivals like KEEP IT TRUE many younger people are showing up.

As for Majors and Metalbands, I think the whole Majors have changed they have become more and more pure money making companies and there are no real musicfans left in the companies.

The future for Metal are the smaller companies especially since music TV hast lost it`s role.

As for modern bands like SLIPKNOT if this is the future of Metal, it will be the End.
They are o.k. but can not hold the candle of any 80`s bands.
Why they have success? Mainly through show and shock!! O.k. yeah the music is also not bad.

As for quality in Metal in general, I honestly have to say that there are tons of release out there that no one needs and that you have to search real hard to find any outstanding releases, sadly this includes also some of the stuff that has come from RETROACTIVE/BOMBWORKS.
To release "just good" albums is not enough.

Well put, I couldn't descrive it better. People is just getting used to download music, just like having pre-mature sex. It used to be forbidden, even the bible talks about it, but nowdays it sems to be ok to do it. I have to agree on Steve Row comparisons about it too.

I think alot of this are record labels own fault, they charged too much for new CD's, they didnot embrace new technology and they treated music like a commodity, not art just another product on the shelf, like a box of Tide.

They stopped building up long term careers and dropped a band when their CD sells went slightly down and by doing this and focusing on singles and not albums as an art form but just a collection of songs it devalued the music and made it so people just download it instead of buying it. If you devalue something to the point that even so called fans would rather down load then buy an album then I place blame squarely at record labels feet.

The thing that the format of buying a physical CD format is not completely dead, look at the sales figure for physical CDs in the wake of Michael Jackson's death or the sales figure of AC/DC and The Eagles, they have to change their business model and growth of the 90's is a thing of the past but the format can survive.

This is also why bands are relying on merch sales to help make up for the poor album sales... Tourniquet-coffee, Megadeth-coffee http://www.networthcoffeebrokers.com/dave-mustaine39s-coff.html, Anthrax-coffee... check out BLS's merch site. They have everything under the sun just like KISS.

The whole mindset that a lot of people have with the downloading is what really gets me. I was in line at my local Hastings for Black Friday last year and there was this twenty-something girl explaining to her mother with all sincerity that only idiots buy music anymore since "you can get it all free online". And even with a great sale the only two people in the music section that day were me and some other guy my age. Depressing.

Not long ago I was contacted by some guy who signed up for the board because he had googled this band and I guess a thread from here popped up. He wanted me to send him mp3s from this album he wanted, which he explained he couldn't find on any of the torrent sites.. By coincidence I had just seen the album in the discount bin and offered to send that to him. He acted like this suggestion was the most ridiculous idea he ever heard since I could just "so easy" put it up on some download site. He very generously offered to tutor me through the process. Again depressing.

The other thing that bothers me is when I try to google to find info or a review of something all that turns up is those download blogs or torrent sites. Seriously, all I want is a review and info.

They should create some kind of lock on the cd's that prevent online file transfer from the hardcopy.

it's a sad situation that will come to a breaking point soon.

Quote :

Shawn,
this Classic Metal argument is not working for Europe I think, we have several Classic Metalbands here like HAMMERFALL, GRAVE DIGGER..... who are still selling a lot of records.
And the new wave of Thrash is also doing well I think.

While Classic Metal/Thrash may do slightly better numbers in Europe than in America, it's not a significant enough number to discredit my theory. It applies all over music in general. Just because some regions have deeper scenes than other does not mean that it doesn't experience the same things. America does tend to be a bit more fickle, though...I'll give you that.

And Europe does have the better Metal magazines...

Quote :

The thing that the format of buying a physical CD format is not completely dead, look at the sales figure for physical CDs in the wake of Michael Jackson's death or the sales figure of AC/DC and The Eagles, they have to change their business model and growth of the 90's is a thing of the past but the format can survive.

While these bands have younger fans, these acts are marketed their older, established fans who have always bought a physical format...each of those acts is well over 30 years old...

Excellent point Shawn, regarding the history of these acts, but I still think the CD format can survive, but not the way that music industry is run.

I remember a few years ago Mariah Carey ( of all people) was dropped from her label or more accuratley paid off to leave the label because the soundtrack to 'Glitter' only managed to go gold (or was it platinum) which shows how clueless and stupid these record company weasels are. An artist with a track record of multi platinum album and # 1 singles is dropped because of one album that did not meet the sales expections of her previous releases.

Since then her albums she has released for her new label have gone multi platinum.

Troublezone wrote:

They should create some kind of lock on the cd's that prevent online file transfer from the hardcopy.

The labels tried that, here's what happened.

They spent MILLIONS of dollars trying to copy protect CDs, then when they finally rolled it out...it was immediately figured out that all you had to do to bypass the copy protection was to hold down the left shift key on your keyboard while you loaded the disc. So much for those millions....

Then a different company tried it and their copy protection was AUDIBLE, it added noise into the music.

Needless to say, the idea was scrapped. Some Euro discs have copy protection, but I don't think they'll be trying it here anytime soon again.

Right...I don't think CD's will ever go away totally...but it is going to be harder and harder to sell them in large numbers in small scenes...it's already a very difficult thing to do as evidenced by the Seventh Angel numbers...

One form of copy protection was thwarted by a Sharpie pen... LOL!

Companies that don't adapt as technology evolves are due to perish. The record labels happily shoved digital product down our throats during the late 80's and all through the 90's (CDs), they loved it because their cost was minimal and they could charge outrageous prices for them...HUGE profit margin. However, their decision to go digital would soon bite them in the ass...

When CD burners for computers started to become popular they got nervous about pirating...then the Napster thing started and they went on the warpath and made a public scapegoat out of them. When all of that didn't work they started lawsuits...now they've changed that tactic because it wasn't working either.

At ANY point in the process they could have chosen to become COMPETITIVE with their pricing...they didn't. They wanted to hang on to that cash cow with the huge profit margin.

Everything the labels have attempted has been at least 5 years too late (copy protection in 2005...when 1998 would have been a better place to start), etc.

New technology changes everything, you adapt or you die....

What happened to the companies that manufactured Typewriters?
At some point, buggy whips were a hot selling item.
How do I get replacement parts for my Ronco record cleaning machine?

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Right...I don't think CD's will ever go away totally...but it is going to be harder and harder to sell them in large numbers in small scenes...it's already a very difficult thing to do as evidenced by the Seventh Angel numbers...

they will become like vinyl, stuff only hardcore collectors and serious music fans will buy.

sam wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Right...I don't think CD's will ever go away totally...but it is going to be harder and harder to sell them in large numbers in small scenes...it's already a very difficult thing to do as evidenced by the Seventh Angel numbers...

they will become like vinyl, stuff only hardcore collectors and serious music fans will buy.

Hell, vinyl is the only physical music format where the sales have INCREASED every year for the past few years. A couple of the record stores here in Austin have vinyl sections that are taking over the CD sections completely...the one store had a single aisle of vinyl a year ago when I moved here...now it's 3 aisles of vinyl!

Metal Church didn't even hit the 1000 mark either with only 900+ units sold.

detuned wrote:

sam wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Right...I don't think CD's will ever go away totally...but it is going to be harder and harder to sell them in large numbers in small scenes...it's already a very difficult thing to do as evidenced by the Seventh Angel numbers...

they will become like vinyl, stuff only hardcore collectors and serious music fans will buy.

Hell, vinyl is the only physical music format where the sales have INCREASED every year for the past few years. A couple of the record stores here in Austin have vinyl sections that are taking over the CD sections completely...the one store had a single aisle of vinyl a year ago when I moved here...now it's 3 aisles of vinyl!

The store that I frequent sells tons of vinyl and the majority of it is to people under 25. You give music lovers a quality format with cool packaging and extras and people are still willing to purchase a physical format. This doesn't mean that the public at large is going to start buying vinyl, but it shows there are still growth areas for music retail.

Quote :

Metal Church didn't even hit the 1000 mark either with only 900+ units sold.

On the opposite end of the sales spectrum:

Mastodon's newest album debuted at #11 on the Billboard charts and sold 41,000 copies in it's first week of release.

detuned wrote:

sam wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Right...I don't think CD's will ever go away totally...but it is going to be harder and harder to sell them in large numbers in small scenes...it's already a very difficult thing to do as evidenced by the Seventh Angel numbers...

they will become like vinyl, stuff only hardcore collectors and serious music fans will buy.

Hell, vinyl is the only physical music format where the sales have INCREASED every year for the past few years. A couple of the record stores here in Austin have vinyl sections that are taking over the CD sections completely...the one store had a single aisle of vinyl a year ago when I moved here...now it's 3 aisles of vinyl!

old school fans are re-discovering this format, and new fans as myself have fallen in love with it.

Troublezone wrote:

Metal Church didn't even hit the 1000 mark either with only 900+ units sold.

... which sucks, and I'm sure downloading had something to do with it, but it may also have been because the last Metal Church wasn't very good...just sayin'....