Def Leppard's decline

I am sure most of you agree with me that DL are not as good as they were back in the 80's and their album X would make someone like James Blunt or Justin timberlake blush on how sentimental it is. Their recent album however is not too bad and is their strongest album since Retroactive or Adrenalize. Alot of metal purists would think Def Leppard died after their High N Dry album and yes it was a bit of loss that they fired Pete Willis and should of had him back in the band after Steve Clark's death. But despite that I think Pyromania and Hysteria are still strong albums sure if I was a metalhead in the 80s I most likely would off hated those two albums since how popular they were. But what they do have is they still have catchy AC-DC esque riffs, Steve Clark who was the Cliff Burton of the band when it came to talent had amazing guitar solos and riffs that brought alot of warmth to those albums. I do agree with ultmetal that were only after being no1 on the charts, and were one of the biggest rock radio whores of the 80s. Also following the latest trend but the thing is they did brilliantly and efficiently. Adrenalize isn't that bad as people make it out to be even though it does have annoying cheesy lyrics "make love like a man" come to mind. Slang is completely unlistenable and they sound pathetic desperately trying to "get with the times" especially Joe Elliot who by the looks of it was trying to imitate Anthony Kiedis in some of the verses and choruses of the songs and Ult metal I salute you for writing the song "Never" even though it would suit Def leppard's moment more with their album X. Also Vivian campbell is a highly talented guitarist but he really needs to go back to Dio and they should bring back pete Willis which unfortunately is very very unlikely to happen but still least Vivian campbell talented though and aint a timewaster for the band.

I wrote "Never" because of comments from guys like Joe Elliot, and also the guys from Holy Soldier when they released "Promise Man". These bands can do whatever they want musically. That's their choice as an artist. However, what I didn't like was their denial of their past. Heavy Metal was a dirty word in the 1990's and many of these bands were trying their hand at alternative rock and making comments like, "we were never really a heavy metal band, blah, blah blah!" Yeah right! Whatever. I would have respected them more if they just would have been honest and said, "we were tired of playing heavy metal and decided to get with the times and try our hand at the current trends in music." At least Guardian admitted as much with their post-Miracle Mile releases.

I can't stand bands that deny their pasts. If metal never went away and was profitable then those same bands would be embracing it instead.

Well, if "Heavy Metal" is defined as bands like SAXON and IRON MAIDEN and BLACK SABBATH and JUDAS PRIEST, then neither HOLY SOLDIER nor DEF LEPPARD were ever "Heavy Metal".

I recently watched the IRON MAIDEN DVD "Classic Albums: Number Of The Beast"...Dave Murray was talking about the "New Wave Of British Heavy Metal" tag that the bands got...he mentioned SAXON, themselves and then said "...even bands like DEF LEPPARD got thrown in there..." showing that even he, a Heavy Metal artist, never viewed DL as "Heavy Metal"...the media/audience had to define them and that was the most convenient label to put on them...

I was re-reading an article on Def Leppard in an old issue of CIRCUS magazine (circa the PYROMANIA era) a couple of nights ago ... and in it their manager was quoted as saying that with the release of that album they were "no longer a hard core metal outfit." So even way back then they were moving away from the "metal" tag.

On a side note, that quote made me laugh because I think it's the first time I've ever seen "hard core metal" used to describe Def Leppard.

We've had this discussion before. I don't care what others say. I don't remember their early fans being pop fans. I'm pretty sure it was the denim and leather clad metal fans that supported them early on. The same fans listening to Maiden, Priest and Saxon. Joe Elliot sure didn't deny being a metal band when every metal mag in the world was covering his band in the early 80's. He didn't deny it when Headbangers Ball was playing his videos. He didn't deny it when his band was billed on the big Heavy Metal festivals. I never heard him try to shake the NWOBHM tag until after the grunge explosion when metal became the dirty word in the industry. That's when it was, "we were never really a heavy metal band."

All I have to say is:

pre-Pyromania Def Leppard

Post-Pyromania Def Leppard

Yes, Pyromania was the beginning of the end of a great metal band IMO. They went from being a hard rock band to a slick, glossy, ready for the radio pop rock band. Industry whores. Sure, they always wanted to "make it big", but somehow I doubt they considered themselves a "pop band" when they started as a young struggling Thin Lizzy cover band.

As for Holy Soldier, all you have to do is go back and re-read an old issue of Heaven's Metal to see they were calling themselves a heavy metal band up until the musically depressed 1990's. You just don't get more L.A. heavy metal than "Tear Down the Walls" and "Stranger". (Great songs! )

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pre-Pyromania Def Leppard

Post-Pyromania Def Leppard

Exactly.

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He didn't deny it when Headbangers Ball was playing his videos.

Well, if being on Headbanger's Ball makes you Heavy Metal then Pearl Jam, Damn Yankees, Nelson and Nirvana were Heavy Metal!!

Nelson!

The point is, Def Leppard didn't start making claims that they were "never a heavy metal band" until AFTER heavy metal suddenly became a dirty word in the music industry in the 1990's. They can play whatever music they want, but to deny that those first two albums were part of the growing metal movement on the early 1980's is just silly and inspired me to write the song "Never".

was Def Leppard ever metal? who know, who cares. they were always teh suck.

ultmetal wrote:

The point is, Def Leppard didn't start making claims that they were "never a heavy metal band" until AFTER heavy metal suddenly became a dirty word in the music industry in the 1990's.

I know, but by the same token, they weren't shouting "WE ARE A HEAVY METAL BAND!!!" from the rooftops either...they didn't care what they were called as long as the records kept selling...I think Elliot got resentful because DL were suddenly tossed aside like all the other bands when he viewed them as something different...he thought the ride was gonna last forever.

I haven't liked any of their stuff since Steve Clark died. The band seemed to only rock when Pete Willis and Steve Clark were in charge.

mc666 wrote:

was Def Leppard ever metal? who know, who cares. they were always teh suck.

Troublezone wrote:

I haven't liked any of their stuff since Steve Clark died. The band seemed to only rock when Pete Willis and Steve Clark were in charge.

And METALLICA would still be Thrash if Cliff was still alive...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Well, if "Heavy Metal" is defined as bands like SAXON and IRON MAIDEN and BLACK SABBATH and JUDAS PRIEST, then neither HOLY SOLDIER nor DEF LEPPARD were ever "Heavy Metal".

I recently watched the IRON MAIDEN DVD "Classic Albums: Number Of The Beast"...Dave Murray was talking about the "New Wave Of British Heavy Metal" tag that the bands got...he mentioned SAXON, themselves and then said "...even bands like DEF LEPPARD got thrown in there..." showing that even he, a Heavy Metal artist, never viewed DL as "Heavy Metal"...the media/audience had to define them and that was the most convenient label to put on them...

They had elements of metal in their early albums like the breakdown in the song "Lady Strange" or the main riff on the song "Wasted". I think they played more AC/DC type hard rock more than anything.

Troublezone wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Well, if "Heavy Metal" is defined as bands like SAXON and IRON MAIDEN and BLACK SABBATH and JUDAS PRIEST, then neither HOLY SOLDIER nor DEF LEPPARD were ever "Heavy Metal".

I recently watched the IRON MAIDEN DVD "Classic Albums: Number Of The Beast"...Dave Murray was talking about the "New Wave Of British Heavy Metal" tag that the bands got...he mentioned SAXON, themselves and then said "...even bands like DEF LEPPARD got thrown in there..." showing that even he, a Heavy Metal artist, never viewed DL as "Heavy Metal"...the media/audience had to define them and that was the most convenient label to put on them...

They had elements of metal in their early albums like the breakdown in the song "Lady Strange" or the main riff on the song "Wasted". I think they played more AC/DC type hard rock more than anything.

Thank you.

But isn't AC/DC sometimes lumped in with NWOBHM too?

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I haven't liked any of their stuff since Steve Clark died. The band seemed to only rock when Pete Willis and Steve Clark were in charge.

And METALLICA would still be Thrash if Cliff was still alive...

Maybe... we'll never know. I know one thing though... the music would be better.

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As for Holy Soldier, all you have to do is go back and re-read an old issue of Heaven's Metal to see they were calling themselves a heavy metal band up until the musically depressed 1990's. You just don't get more L.A. heavy metal than "Tear Down the Walls" and "Stranger". (Great songs! )

Why are they so concerned anyway?? Their whole purpose is to spread the word of God...

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...I think Elliot got resentful because DL were suddenly tossed aside like all the other bands when he viewed them as something different...he thought the ride was gonna last forever.

Shawn just nailed it. DL didn't have a problem with being considered a "metal" band during their heyday. Y'know, when their videos were played during METAL shows, and his band was doing interviews with METAL magazines, and they were playing at festivals with other METAL bands in front of METAL fans.

Troublezone wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I haven't liked any of their stuff since Steve Clark died. The band seemed to only rock when Pete Willis and Steve Clark were in charge.

And METALLICA would still be Thrash if Cliff was still alive...

Maybe... we'll never know. I know one thing though... the music would be better.

Cliff was the least Metal guy in the band...he was all about Skynyrd and Pink Floyd and 70s bands...

But, whatever...we're talking about Classic Pop Rockers DEF LEPPARD here...

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Thank you.

But isn't AC/DC sometimes lumped in with NWOBHM too?

Don't remember hearing that but some primitive metalheads considered them metal in the 70's. I say they're loud rock 'n roll.

Troublezone wrote:

I say they're loud rock 'n roll.

Yeah, like Deep Purple, Ted Nugent, and Thin Lizzy. Loud Rock N Roll. Right, ult? :eyesore:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

...I think Elliot got resentful because DL were suddenly tossed aside like all the other bands when he viewed them as something different...he thought the ride was gonna last forever.

Shawn just nailed it. DL didn't have a problem with being considered a "metal" band during their heyday. Y'know, when their videos were played during METAL shows, and his band was doing interviews with METAL magazines, and they were playing at festivals with other METAL bands in front of METAL fans.

Right, but Metal wasn't the only crowd they were exposed to...I think a lot of that was a result of how they were labeled as opposed to who they were targeting...they were taking what they could get early on...then when Pyromania made them millionaires, they spoke their mind a bit more...

Troublezone wrote:

Don't remember hearing that but some primitive metalheads considered them metal in the 70's.

Compared to most of what was out there in the 70s, AC/DC were pretty damn metal for the time.

...but I don't wanna start the "what band is/was or isn't/wasn't metal" Chinese fire drill all over again....