Heart Of Metal
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeLatest imagesRegisterLog in

 

 Classic Rock...Guitar Heros

Go down 
+13
INVADERS
TH Joe
mr.electric39
arttieTHE1manparty
stepcousin
007
mc666
KissinMaiden
caniplaywithmadness?
Wargod
kmorg
MetalGuy71
ultmetal
17 posters
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
ultmetal
Administrator
ultmetal


Number of posts : 19452
Age : 57

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Jimi Hendrix has been crowned "Wildest Guitar Hero" of all-time in a
new poll of music lovers for influential magazine Classic Rock. The
poll was compiled by votes from over 3,000 visitors to
www.classicrockmagazine.com and a panel of expert music journalists.

The guitarist, who made his name in the late Sixties, with songs like
"Hey Joe" and "Foxy Lady", died aged 27 in 1970, following a drug
overdose. Hendrix beat ROLLING STONES legend Keith Richard into second
place, while Richard's fellow Brits, Tony Iommi (BLACK SABBATH) and
Jimmy Page (LED ZEPPELIN) also made the top ten. Surprisingly, THE WHO
guitarist Pete Townshend and GUNS N' ROSES legend Slash failed to even
make it into the top 20.

Classic Rock's 20 "Wildest Guitar Heroes":

01. Jimi Hendrix
02. Keith Richards
03. Stevie Ray Vaughan
04. Jimmy Page
05. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott
06. Tony Iommi
07. Rory Gallagher
08. Eddie Van Halen
09. Chuck Berry
10. Kurt Cobain
11. Steve Clark
12. James Hetfield
13. Brian Jones
14. Jeff Beck
15. John Frusciante
16. Steve Jones
17. Johnny Thunders
18. Ted Nugent
19. Peter Green
20. Ace Frehley

Editor of Classic Rock, Scott Rowley, said: "There's no massive
surprise in our readers voting Jimi Hendrix their wildest guitar hero
of all-time. Jimi hit London in 1966 and set about terrifying guys like
Clapton and Pete Townshend with his devastating technique and wired
showmanship. It's a combination that's never been bettered � he
redefined the term 'guitar hero' � and he made it all seem so easy.

"Singers might think that they're the real kings of rock and roll, but
our poll shows that guitarists are far crazier, usually more talented
and the real driving force behind the music. Every guitarist in our
list turned it up to 11: putting on an unforgettable show and setting
the stage alight � sometimes literally � with their presence (and a
bottle of lighter fuel). That many of them are still alive after
decades of over-indulgence is nothing short of a miracle."

The full rundown of the 100 "Wildest Guitar Heroes" appears in the
latest issue of Classic Rock magazine, on sale Wednesday, March 7 �
including a free "Legends" DVD, featuring axe heroics artists including
Ritchie Blackmore, Eric Clapton, Zakk Wylde and many more!


Last edited by on Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
ultmetal
Administrator
ultmetal


Number of posts : 19452
Age : 57

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 9:02 am

01. Jimi Hendrix (deserves this spot for sure!)

02. Keith Richards (deserves a high spot as well.)

03. Stevie Ray Vaughan (WAYYYYY OVERRATED! A good guitarist? Sure. A revolutionary? Hardly.)

04. Jimmy Page (Yup, deserves to be high on the list)

05. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott (OVERRATED!!!)

06. Tony Iommi (The riffmaster deserves to be here)

07. Rory Gallagher (not all that familiar)

08. Eddie Van Halen (yup, deserves to be higher actually. He revolutionized guitar playing in the late 70's and early 80's. Many guitarists followed. Can't believe that Dimebag received a higher spot than EVH?!?!?)

09. Chuck Berry (For sure! A revolutionary guitarist for his time!)

10. Kurt Cobain (Weak! This guy doesn't even deserve to be on the list. He was not a great guitarist.He may have been a good songwriter, although I say that is debatable, but he doesn't deserve to be high on any guitarist list.)

11. Steve Clark (Mmmm, ok. Never thought of him as all that "wild". A good guitarist nonetheless.)

12. James Hetfield (Ok. Metallica
were a great band who had a lot of influence, but not so sure Hetfield
deserves to be on a list of great guitarists with Jimi Hendrix and
Jimmy Page.)


13. Brian Jones

14. Jeff Beck (Yup! Deserves to be higher!)

15. John Frusciante (Uhhhh, ok. Who?)

16. Steve Jones (Errr, ok, he was wild, but he wasn't a great guitarist.)

17. Johnny Thunders (I'm not all that familiar.)

18. Ted Nugent (Yes, Yes, Yes! Most certainly deserves to be higher.)

19. Peter Green (A very influencial and underrated guitarist.)

20. Ace Frehley (YES! Defined an era and was the inspiration for many
other great guitarists to pick up their instruments, including Dimebag.
Ace deserves to be up MUCH, MUCH higher in this list.)



MIA:
Eric Clapton (a bit overrated, but definitely a wild guitarist in the 60's with Cream.)

Frank Marino (WAY underrated, although quite popular in the 1970's).

Frank Zappa (how can he NOT be on that list, while guys like Kurt Cobain are? GAK! Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Indifferent Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Scratch )

Richie Blackmore (another one that I am surprised didn't make it)

Uli Roth (WAYYYYY underrated and probably a better guitarist than 99% of the guitarists on this list!)

Yngwie Malmsteen (Uhhhh, HELLO!!!! A great songwriter? No. A great guitarist? Absolutely! He was a revolutionary in the 80's for sure. Many, many guitarists followed him.)

Randy Rhodes (a bit overrated as well, but a huge influence in the 80's and a wild guitarist for sure!)

Angus Young (there are few guitarists that are more WILD than him. Take a listen to the manic solos on any of those early albums. ANGUS! ANGUS! ANGUS!)


Back to top Go down
MetalGuy71
Bukkake Tsunami
MetalGuy71


Number of posts : 25557
Age : 52

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 9:52 am

That whole list is flawed in it's description of "Wildest Guitar Hero". Sure, Jimi was wild in appearance & playing ability, but honestly, has anyone ever described Tony Iommi as "wild"? Not to take anything away from the man and his accomplishments, but he just stands there on stage, playing.

And Kurt Cobain? Standing still, strumming a guitar in a thrift-store sweater and Keds. Wild? Please.

Wild Guitar Heroes are guys like the Nuge, Angus, even Ace with his smoking Les Paul.

That list is ridiculous.
Back to top Go down
ultmetal
Administrator
ultmetal


Number of posts : 19452
Age : 57

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 10:13 am

I think wild describes a style of play, more than stage antics. They don't really give a description of what 'wild' is.

_________________
ULTIMATUM - TOO METAL FOR WIKIPEDIA!
Back to top Go down
MetalGuy71
Bukkake Tsunami
MetalGuy71


Number of posts : 25557
Age : 52

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 10:31 am

ultmetal wrote:
I think wild describes a style of play, more than stage antics. They don't really give a description of what 'wild' is.

Yea, I think you're right, but it doesn't seems like a proper title for the list. I would venture to say that in most people's mind, a "wild" guitar player would be someone like Angus Young, running around, stripping down to his boxers, etc., yet still playing great guitar. I'm not taking issue with the list of guitarists, all talented in their own right, but naming them 'wild' just seems inappropriate. Heck, in a description of 'wild' guitarists, you could argue that C.C. Deville could be named for his stage antics, yet I don't think too many people would give him a distinction of being a 'guitar hero' in the same company of the above listed.

Talented players, questionable choices, bad name for a list.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 10:43 am

How'd Cobain get on that list and Blackmore and Malmsteen didn't?Laughing very hard
Back to top Go down
kmorg
Metal is my Life
Metal is my Life
kmorg


Number of posts : 13862
Age : 49

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 12:07 pm

That list is gey Razz

_________________
Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Metal_metropolis_logo2
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 2:17 pm

ultmetal wrote:
05. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott (OVERRATED!!!)


Well said, it's a disgrace to have hin at #5.
Back to top Go down
Wargod
Metal is in my blood
Metal is in my blood
Wargod


Number of posts : 4272
Age : 65

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 3:19 pm

01. Jimi Hendrix, probably the first rue great guitarist.
02. Keith Richards, average at best.
03. Stevie Ray Vaughan, he deserves to be here but wild and more blues based.
04. Jimmy Page, he was great for his time but then again he was bluees based rock.
05. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott, hmmmmm!
06. Tony Iommi, hmmmmmm!
07. Rory Gallagher, Wow another in the great line of blues based guitarists.
08. Eddie Van Halen, he belongs for the style he brought forth.
09. Chuck Berry, Hmmmm!
10. Kurt Cobain, ha ha really to funny.
11. Steve Clark, good for a short time.
12. James Hetfield, ha ha!
13. Brian Jones, more blues based influence.
14. Jeff Beck, yeah definitely.
15. John Frusciante, ok.
16. Steve Jones, ok.
17. Johnny Thunders
18. Ted Nugent, oh hell yeah Stranglehold baby!
19. Peter Green, blues based again.
20. Ace Frehley, great hard rocker.

Wow they are forgetting alot.

Ronnie Montrose
Tommy Bolin
Paul Kossoff
Les Dudek

Wargod48
Back to top Go down
ultmetal
Administrator
ultmetal


Number of posts : 19452
Age : 57

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 3:27 pm

I've never understood the obsession with SRV. I just don't think he was all that. He's a good guitarist but I see his music as just average. Guys like Gary Moore, Frank Marino & Robin Trower have a better sound and were doing the same blues based hard rock as SRV, long before SRV.

_________________
ULTIMATUM - TOO METAL FOR WIKIPEDIA!
Back to top Go down
caniplaywithmadness?
Metal master
Metal master
caniplaywithmadness?


Number of posts : 515
Age : 35

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 4:24 pm

i'm not sure what they mean by 'wild' but i think its a way of dodgeing using the word 'best' because that immediately makes people think of technical ability rather than charisma and style. much like you could say steve vai is 'better' than jimi hendrix because vai can probably play everything hendrix has written note for note but i doubt hendrix would be able to play everything vai has written note for note. personally i'm not a fan of fancy shredders who put showing off ahead of what sounds good. ritchie blackmore is my fave guitarist Smile
Back to top Go down
KissinMaiden
Metal master
Metal master
KissinMaiden


Number of posts : 688
Age : 34

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 4:48 pm

Just having hetfield in there is funny to me. Seeing Kurt Cobain almost made my puke, and Dimebag is overrated but he does influence alot of the modern bands that are played in the mainstream today.
Back to top Go down
mc666
Master Sailboat
mc666


Number of posts : 9301
Age : 45

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 9:09 pm

meh, i don't care for any of those guys on that list. with the exception of Iommi & Halen.

i was never big into the "classic rock" scene.

_________________
Classic Rock...Guitar Heros MNxjcKm
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/mc666
007
Metal is my Life
Metal is my Life
007


Number of posts : 39559
Age : 55

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2007 9:30 pm

mc666 wrote:
meh, i don't care for any of those guys on that list. with the exception of Iommi & Halen.

i was never big into the "classic rock" scene.



I'm with you 100%
Back to top Go down
stepcousin
Heart of Metal
Heart of Metal
stepcousin


Number of posts : 1268
Age : 56

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeSun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 am

ultmetal wrote:
01. Jimi Hendrix (deserves this spot for sure!)

02. Keith Richards (deserves a high spot as well.)

03. Stevie Ray Vaughan (WAYYYYY OVERRATED! A good guitarist? Sure. A revolutionary? Hardly.)

04. Jimmy Page (Yup, deserves to be high on the list)

05. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott (OVERRATED!!!)

06. Tony Iommi (The riffmaster deserves to be here)

07. Rory Gallagher (not all that familiar)

08. Eddie Van Halen (yup, deserves to be higher actually. He revolutionized guitar playing in the late 70's and early 80's. Many guitarists followed. Can't believe that Dimebag received a higher spot than EVH?!?!?)

09. Chuck Berry (For sure! A revolutionary guitarist for his time!)

10. Kurt Cobain (Weak! This guy doesn't even deserve to be on the list. He was not a great guitarist.He may have been a good songwriter, although I say that is debatable, but he doesn't deserve to be high on any guitarist list.)

11. Steve Clark (Mmmm, ok. Never thought of him as all that "wild". A good guitarist nonetheless.)

12. James Hetfield (Ok. Metallica
were a great band who had a lot of influence, but not so sure Hetfield
deserves to be on a list of great guitarists with Jimi Hendrix and
Jimmy Page.)


13. Brian Jones

14. Jeff Beck (Yup! Deserves to be higher!)

15. John Frusciante (Uhhhh, ok. Who?)

16. Steve Jones (Errr, ok, he was wild, but he wasn't a great guitarist.)

17. Johnny Thunders (I'm not all that familiar.)

18. Ted Nugent (Yes, Yes, Yes! Most certainly deserves to be higher.)

19. Peter Green (A very influencial and underrated guitarist.)

20. Ace Frehley (YES! Defined an era and was the inspiration for many
other great guitarists to pick up their instruments, including Dimebag.
Ace deserves to be up MUCH, MUCH higher in this list.)



MIA:
Eric Clapton (a bit overrated, but definitely a wild guitarist in the 60's with Cream.)

Frank Marino (WAY underrated, although quite popular in the 1970's).

Frank Zappa (how can he NOT be on that list, while guys like Kurt Cobain are? GAK! Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Indifferent Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Scratch )

Richie Blackmore (another one that I am surprised didn't make it)

Uli Roth (WAYYYYY underrated and probably a better guitarist than 99% of the guitarists on this list!)

Yngwie Malmsteen (Uhhhh, HELLO!!!! A great songwriter? No. A great guitarist? Absolutely! He was a revolutionary in the 80's for sure. Many, many guitarists followed him.)

Randy Rhodes (a bit overrated as well, but a huge influence in the 80's and a wild guitarist for sure!)

Angus Young (there are few guitarists that are more WILD than him. Take a listen to the manic solos on any of those early albums. ANGUS! ANGUS! ANGUS!)



I agree about 99% with your comments and your honorable mentions, you were right on the money with all of them, and the ones you added all the way!!

I disagree slightly with Randy Roads being overated, and Ace Frehley being really great. but just slightly though. Randy wasnt a great rythym player and Ace had a GREAT sound and vibe.
Back to top Go down
arttieTHE1manparty
Administrator
arttieTHE1manparty


Number of posts : 863
Age : 54

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeSun Mar 11, 2007 11:54 am

Having Eddie that low is ridiculous. Not having Malmsteen, Vai, Vandenberg, UJ Roth, Rhoades, or Satriani on the list just shows that this has little to do with innovation or pure talent, but rather makes this a list of "who I like".

I also agree with several questions issued by you guys. What exactly made Cobain wild or great? Steve Clark was considered by many to be very sloppy and was actually not all that wild in concert (saw him 4 times).

I also think the thing with Hetfield is that he made it cool to be the rhythm player and excel at it. He also used to get fairly wild on-stage back in the 80's, though he was pretty subdued the last time I saw them.


Arttie
Back to top Go down
http://christianmetalrealm.niceboard.com
ultmetal
Administrator
ultmetal


Number of posts : 19452
Age : 57

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeSun Mar 11, 2007 7:27 pm

I personally wouldn't put guys like Vai and Satriani in a list of
'wildest' guitarists. They are technically awesome, but I don't know
that I'd call their style 'wild'. It's too bad that they didn't spell
out what they meant by wild.



Uli Roth for sure! He is both technical and wild.

_________________
ULTIMATUM - TOO METAL FOR WIKIPEDIA!
Back to top Go down
stepcousin
Heart of Metal
Heart of Metal
stepcousin


Number of posts : 1268
Age : 56

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeSun Mar 11, 2007 8:31 pm

yeah, Im not sure what they meant by "wild" either. I figured it meant good, because how "wild and crazy" a guitarist is means absolutely nothing IMO.
Back to top Go down
mr.electric39
Heart of Metal
Heart of Metal
mr.electric39


Number of posts : 1828
Age : 56

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeSun Mar 11, 2007 9:01 pm

I would agree with all the previously made comments (except for not being into the 'classic rock' scene).

Honestly these days it's hard for me to hear new players $$$$ deficiant. So I'm a bit more hesitant to take a chance. But I must wonder what makes a good guitar player ? Rythym (something many take for granted).. Flashy lead playing??? Was Schenker that flashy?? (who wasn't on the list or did I miss him)..... Innovation?? that's a good point of contention.... Was Page that innovative? SRV... ?? Dimebag?? .... Maybe it's songwriting....
I remember hearing Rudolph Schenker say "I knew I wasn't the best guitar player so I really wanted to be known as a very good composer."
it does in many ways boil down to a popularity contest.... oh well..... not to be totally philosophical.... It's only Rock N Roll....

So where was Alex Lifeson ?!?!?!??!?!?!?!? 🤘
Back to top Go down
http://www.whitethronereviews.blogspot.com
stepcousin
Heart of Metal
Heart of Metal
stepcousin


Number of posts : 1268
Age : 56

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeSun Mar 11, 2007 9:05 pm

I agree on the Lifeson^^^, although he isnt really "wild", he certainly was great.
Back to top Go down
TH Joe
Metal graduate
Metal graduate
TH Joe


Number of posts : 450
Age : 42

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeMon Mar 12, 2007 1:09 am

Dude! No Clapton? How did SRV make this list without him? Frank Zappa was a genius and as wild as one can get! Where's he? Can you even consider Steve Jones to be a guitar player, at all? John Frusciante shouldn't be anywhere near this list. Same goes for Kurt Cobain. scratch

Oh yeah! Where's Ritchie Blackmore? He, pretty much, single-handedly invented using classical music in hard rock guitar.
Uli Roth, Randy Rhoads, Yngwie, etc. may not have done what they did without Ritchie doin' it first. C'mon!

I'm done now
Back to top Go down
stepcousin
Heart of Metal
Heart of Metal
stepcousin


Number of posts : 1268
Age : 56

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeMon Mar 12, 2007 10:40 am

I totally agree on the Richie Blackmore^^^.
Back to top Go down
INVADERS
Metal master
Metal master
INVADERS


Number of posts : 937
Age : 39

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeTue Jul 24, 2007 2:07 pm

I wouldn't say dimebag is overrated
he deserves as much respect as the other, in my book
but i suppose each to their own
Back to top Go down
ultmetal
Administrator
ultmetal


Number of posts : 19452
Age : 57

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeTue Jul 24, 2007 3:47 pm

TH Joe wrote:
Dude! No Clapton? How did SRV make this list without him? Frank Zappa was a genius and as wild as one can get! Where's he? Can you even consider Steve Jones to be a guitar player, at all? John Frusciante shouldn't be anywhere near this list. Same goes for Kurt Cobain. scratch

Oh yeah! Where's Ritchie Blackmore? He, pretty much, single-handedly invented using classical music in hard rock guitar.
Uli Roth, Randy Rhoads, Yngwie, etc. may not have done what they did without Ritchie doin' it first. C'mon!

I'm done now

Good rant! I couldn't agree more. angry
Back to top Go down
stepcousin
Heart of Metal
Heart of Metal
stepcousin


Number of posts : 1268
Age : 56

Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitimeTue Jul 24, 2007 7:36 pm

Ive been on a Pink Floyd kick lately so I gotta ask: Why is David Gilmour nowhere to be found anywhere on here, even by myself included? I suppose he was anything but "wild" but the man has played some of the greatest guitar solos ever. Check out the solo on "Comfortably Numb", unbelievable!
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Empty
PostSubject: Re: Classic Rock...Guitar Heros   Classic Rock...Guitar Heros Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Classic Rock...Guitar Heros
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Top 16 Hard Rock/Melodic Rock/Classic Metal albums of 2015
» Heavy Guitar Rock! The age of the guitar hero...
» Danava - retro classic rock / prog rock a la Zeppelin etc
» Classic rock final four
» NU-Metal. Has it become Classic Rock?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Heart Of Metal :: Music Forums :: Heart Of Metal-
Jump to: