Let's talk about guns

bassman wrote:

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Might send them a check and join up just out of spite.

I was actually thinking about doing the same thing for the same reason.

brokentulsa wrote:

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at the same time I wish it was harder for the psychos to get them!

I hear this all the time and I get it but I wonder what makes a person a "psycho"... What is the definition of this and how do we weed them out? Are you talking mean evil people or mentally ill? One persons idea of mean and evil isn't always someone else's idea ...and 1 out of every 8 Americans is thought to have mental illness by the mental health organizations yet only around 10% ever see a doctor and get a diagnosis... then there is the issue of hippa and medical privacy and that could lead to lawsuits.. and then you have the people who would qualify to buy a weapon living in a home with someone who cant buy a weapon. .how do we deal with that.. And ultimately you have criminals who don't care about the law and WILL always find a way to get whatever weapons they want...

Well since you keep questioning what "defines" evil or mentally ill, let me make it a little more clear for you...
Anyone that feels compelled with an uncontrollable urge to use a gun to murder or in this case (mass murder) is what I'm talking about. Forget the frivolous sleazy lawyer smokescreen diversions. Normal rational people do not listen to a voice in their head to kill others (for whatever reason).

Yeah.. kinda doubt most Killers walk into stores acting crazy and telling the salesperson I want a gun so I can go murder or even tell a salesperson a voice in my head told me to come buy this... so we pretty much would never catch these people until after they've committed the crime... gun control doesnt work and never has...

This is why I stopped myself from going all in against the little bitter vexer dude. I could tell he was one of those types to get all bent out of shape over this. I swear, the attitude that a lot of antigunners have is really funny. They talk about how violent guns are, and yet, try to prove their point by being the most rude, and angry, and just totally out of line people around. Same thing with the ones in charge trying to ban them. Whenever you see a pro gun enthusiast talking rationally, you have the opposition start to rant and rave about how evil guns and gun owners are.

Anyway, vexer6 you need to grow up and quit with the name calling. Not one single person in this thread resorted to name calling but you. I suggest if you can't have a respectful conversation about this topic, you should probably go elsewhere and find something you can be mature about. In other words, get lost kid adults are talking here.

I'm still shaking my head at his argument for Chicagos crime rate.

Vexer you need to chill man. We're all adults here and enjoy a good discussion. No need to get pissed and start calling names because everyone doesn't agree with your views.No one will listen to you with that attitude.

I'm from Chicago and lived there for the better part of my life. But living in South Korea now, the whole situation in the U.S. disgusts me.

I don't agree with any of the arguments for the 2nd amendment, but I also know that simply curtailing access is not going to solve the problems the U.S. has either.

I'm just happy to be in a country where I can walk down any street in a city of 13 million people at night and know that I'm not going to get shot and that nobody I cross paths with is going to be armed either (basically the only gun violence here happens within the military).

brokentulsa wrote:

Yeah.. kinda doubt most Killers walk into stores acting crazy and telling the salesperson I want a gun so I can go murder or even tell a salesperson a voice in my head told me to come buy this... so we pretty much would never catch these people until after they've committed the crime... gun control doesnt work and never has...

Yeah, that's why I said that (I wish) there was a way to stop them.
Although some people are in the books with a known history of mental behavior, but they somehow slip through the cracks. Or they obtain a gun through a friend or relative like the scumbag that killed Dimebag.

glassprison wrote:

I'm from Chicago and lived there for the better part of my life. But living in South Korea now, the whole situation in the U.S. disgusts me.

I don't agree with any of the arguments for the 2nd amendment, but I also know that simply curtailing access is not going to solve the problems the U.S. has either.

I'm just happy to be in a country where I can walk down any street in a city of 13 million people at night and know that I'm not going to get shot and that nobody I cross paths with is going to be armed either (basically the only gun violence here happens within the military).

No gun violence... just a crazy fat guy with his nukes pointed at you.

Wrecked Neck wrote:

This is why I stopped myself from going all in against the little bitter vexer dude. I could tell he was one of those types to get all bent out of shape over this. I swear, the attitude that a lot of antigunners have is really funny. They talk about how violent guns are, and yet, try to prove their point by being the most rude, and angry, and just totally out of line people around. Same thing with the ones in charge trying to ban them. Whenever you see a pro gun enthusiast talking rationally, you have the opposition start to rant and rave about how evil guns and gun owners are.

Anyway, vexer6 you need to grow up and quit with the name calling. Not one single person in this thread resorted to name calling but you. I suggest if you can't have a respectful conversation about this topic, you should probably go elsewhere and find something you can be mature about. In other words, get lost kid adults are talking here.

Maybe he's one of those "Antifa" guys.  

Vexer6 wrote:

you don't live here, so quit acting like you know everything

Well let's see, you stated you don't (live in Chicago) either...so what make your info any different/better than mine? I have friends & family who live in Chicago. An Uncle is a retired lieutenant from the Chicago police department and two of his sons, my cousins, are detectives in the same department. I still converse with guys met when my band played in Chicago in the 80's. My brother-in-law (wife's brother) is a member of the Outlaws MC in Chicago. Then last, but not least, when I'm laid off from my highway construction job (every late November to early April), I work as a reserve deputy sheriff with access to the National Police Crime Database. So I have more than just some links from a biased source pushing an agenda to base an opinion on.

I'm not wading in on the gun thing anymore because I'm sitting here in the almost certain fact that I'm not getting shot tomorrow but I really do have to call bull on the whole 'there is no point in having gun laws because criminals will still have guns' argument.

That is exactly why you have laws, it's for stuff that people do that you really don't want them to do! Do you think that drug dealers will stop dealing drugs just because it's against the law? Murder and rape have been against the law forever but people still do it. Shall we just not have laws at all?

There is probably no specific law against shooting yourself in the balls. The reason for this is no-one does that!

So in short that is why I think that there should be gun laws even though criminals will still have them......So you can at least lock the f*ckers up!

James B. wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

you don't live here, so quit acting like you know everything

Well let's see, you stated you don't (live in Chicago) either...so what make your info any different/better than mine?  I have friends & family who live in Chicago. An Uncle is a retired lieutenant from the Chicago police department and two of his sons, my cousins, are detectives in the same department. I still converse with guys met when my band played in Chicago in the 80's. My brother-in-law (wife's brother) is a member of the Outlaws MC in Chicago.  Then last, but not least, when I'm laid off from my highway construction job (every late November to early April), I work as a reserve deputy sheriff with access to the National Police Crime Database.  So I have more than just some links from a biased source pushing an agenda to base an opinion on.

And I like Chicago deep dish pizza. Guess we all got a connection!

Boris2008 wrote:

So in short that is why I think that there should be gun laws even though criminals will still have them......So you can at least lock the f*ckers up!

That's a no go... our justice system is massively corrupt and they get out with only a fraction of the time served.

Boris2008 wrote:

I'm not wading in on the gun thing anymore because I'm sitting here in the almost certain fact that I'm not getting shot tomorrow but I really do have to call bull on the whole 'there is no point in having gun laws because criminals will still have guns' argument.

That is exactly why you have laws, it's for stuff that people do that you really don't want them to do! Do you think that drug dealers will stop dealing drugs just because it's against the law? Murder and rape have been against the law forever but people still do it. Shall we just not have laws at all?

There is probably no specific law against shooting yourself in the balls. The reason for this is no-one does that!

So in short that is why I think that there should be gun laws even though criminals will still have them......So you can at least lock the f*ckers up!

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be gun laws, what I'm saying is the ones that already exist should be enforced. This whole Florida situation should never have happened, law enforcement dropped the ball multiple times concerning this individual. Taking rights away from law-abiding citizens is not the answer to solving the issue of gun violence.

bassman wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

I'm not wading in on the gun thing anymore because I'm sitting here in the almost certain fact that I'm not getting shot tomorrow but I really do have to call bull on the whole 'there is no point in having gun laws because criminals will still have guns' argument.

That is exactly why you have laws, it's for stuff that people do that you really don't want them to do! Do you think that drug dealers will stop dealing drugs just because it's against the law? Murder and rape have been against the law forever but people still do it. Shall we just not have laws at all?

There is probably no specific law against shooting yourself in the balls. The reason for this is no-one does that!

So in short that is why I think that there should be gun laws even though criminals will still have them......So you can at least lock the f*ckers up!

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be gun laws, what I'm saying is the ones that already exist should be enforced. This whole Florida situation should never have happened, law enforcement dropped the ball multiple times concerning this individual. Taking rights away from law-abiding citizens is not the answer to solving the issue of gun violence.

You are correct.

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Nobody is saying there shouldn't be gun laws

Wrong... I hold the libertarian view on guns that there should be no gun laws... If ANYONE has the cash then they should be able to buy and own the weapon with no restrictions or registration...

usually when i plug myself into these Political debates, i usually get my ass handed to, but i'm gonna try and make myself sound as honest as possible by also staying civil, no need to go off on anybody for dumbass reasons.

i would say, we have quite a bit of guns here in the states, but i don't think the problem is with the guns, it's more of, who is easily getting 'em. i feel like Criminally minded motherf*ckers are the ones usually getting 'em, especially with these recent cases. it's just Irresponsible assholes who don't know how to keep their emotions in check, these kind of people are the ones i like to see be restricted from ever purchasing a firearm, the minute you commit a mass murder of kids, you deserve to get your right taken away, sure, who probably needs the "Death Penalty", but, the right to purchase a Gun should immediately be taken away. should definitely be treated like Treason.

as far as the NRA goes, yeah, i do think they are pieces of shits, when your f*cking caught saying that taking away someone's right (even when he's probably a big irresponsible piece of shit) to own a gun is infringing on the Constitution, yeah, you deserve to be looked frown upon by the public, The Constitution says "Right to Bear Arms", but does it mean to Bear yourself to go out and kill millions of innocent Kids on a School district?...NO, it means Defending yourself, so when proposing the idea of Restricting someone who is a god awful Son Of A Bitch from purchasing a gun, it's not infringing, it's making sure he does not Shoot up ever again.

so, i'm not proposing the idea of Banning all weapons, that's too extreme for my liking, but taking the rights away from certain individuals (i.e., form of background checks. hey, it takes long to finalize one's purchase of a house, so waiting on a approval of a Firearm won't hurt ya'. just saying). that's all. not gonna hurt anyone, of course the same asshole is probably gonna look into the Black Market, which, nobody has the power to get rid of, even during background checks and shit, it still won't hurt the Black Market, that's something, sadly, no one can do about.

all i'm saying is. if Gun Control was to be done right, with Background Checks and taking the right away from someone who abuses their right of owning a firearm (killing innocent people), that's all and without the banning of firearms, it would not be harmful, but in realities case, when you have both sides eating at eachother's throats, it would not go that way. it's a f*cked up situation.

Ummm, if you murder someone, or even get convicted for any type of felony, your guns rights are revoked, just like your rights to vote. That's one of the questions they ask you on the background check before you're allowed to buy the firearm "have you ever been convicted as a felon" is probably the first thing they ask.

Not sure what you're talking about in regards to you NRA statement, could you elaborate why you think the NRA are pieces of shit? Not sure I understand what you're saying is all. Are you saying they don't want people's guns rights revoked that have committed mass shootings? If that's what you think, I think you've been misled somewhere down the line.

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Ummm, if you murder someone, or even get convicted for any type of felony, your guns rights are revoked, just like your rights to vote. That's one of the questions they ask you on the background check before you're allowed to buy the firearm "have you ever been convicted as a felon" is probably the first thing they ask.

Not sure what you're talking about in regards to you NRA statement, could you elaborate why you think the NRA are pieces of shit? Not sure I understand what you're saying is all. Are you saying they don't want people's guns rights revoked that have committed mass shootings? If that's what you think, I think you've been misled somewhere down the line.

i don't know, cause it seems like with the recent cases, i think they are easy to manipulate the Gun Dealer to into thinking that he has never killed someone.

i thought i did elaborate as clear as possible, so let me make it clear again, cause i'm not mislead. even if the guy is Mentally disabled, the guy is still Protected by The Constitution in the eyes of the NRA. the reason why nobody will even propose those facts, is cause the NRA will immediately sue to in order to keep their own asses getting busted, just like how Politicians will do anything to make sure that their asses don't get landed in Jail whenever certain shipment of Guns (from "hired" Arms Dealers) that are from the United Sates are just given away to Terrorists. will they get blamed?...yes, but they will never lose their position in power, just like the NRA and it's utter bullshit.

so to make it clear. it's all Politician like conduct. no one over there is clean, their dirty manipulative billionaires who will do anything in power to keep their money rolling in. they don't care who the F*ck is buying their weapons, as long as they rake in that Ca$h. it's pathetic.

It's not the wild west anymore. Not everyone needs to have a gun. Especially mentally disturbed people that want to kill (not self defense).

Other than that, I support the rights of responsible gun owners.

brokentulsa wrote:

Quote :

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be gun laws

Wrong... I hold the libertarian view on guns that there should be no gun laws... If ANYONE has the cash then they should be able to buy and own the weapon with no restrictions or registration...

Ok, in a perfect world where everyone is kind and decent to each other that would work....we're not in that world.

HeavyThrashhead wrote:

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Ummm, if you murder someone, or even get convicted for any type of felony, your guns rights are revoked, just like your rights to vote. That's one of the questions they ask you on the background check before you're allowed to buy the firearm "have you ever been convicted as a felon" is probably the first thing they ask.

Not sure what you're talking about in regards to you NRA statement, could you elaborate why you think the NRA are pieces of shit? Not sure I understand what you're saying is all. Are you saying they don't want people's guns rights revoked that have committed mass shootings? If that's what you think, I think you've been misled somewhere down the line.

i don't know, cause it seems like with the recent cases, i think they are easy to manipulate the Gun Dealer to into thinking that he has never killed someone.

i thought i did elaborate as clear as possible, so let me make it clear again, cause i'm not mislead. even if the guy is Mentally disabled, the guy is still Protected by The Constitution in the eyes of the NRA. the reason why nobody will even propose those facts, is cause the NRA will immediately sue to in order to keep their own asses getting busted, just like how Politicians will do anything to make sure that their asses don't get landed in Jail whenever certain shipment of Guns (from "hired" Arms Dealers) that are from the United Sates are just given away to Terrorists. will they get blamed?...yes, but they will never lose their position in power, just like the NRA and it's utter bullshit.

so to make it clear. it's all Politician like conduct. no one over there is clean, their dirty manipulative billionaires who will do anything in power to keep their money rolling in. they don't care who the F*ck is buying their weapons, as long as they rake in that Ca$h. it's pathetic.

If you look on the paperwork you fill out when buying a gun, you will also see questions about mental health. I posted a link to this on page one I think.

The NRA doesn't go around suing people, unless you are an anti gun politician trying to pass a law that goes AGAINST the constitution. Exactly like anti gun politicians have sued gun manufacturers for crimes done with weapons they have made. They have no shot at winning those lawsuits, and they know it. Their only motive is to cost the manufacturer money in hopes that they will eventually give up and close shop. If not for the NRA fighting against these frivolous lawsuits, that tactic would win every time.

I'm sorry, but for someone that seems to love the constitution as much as you come off, you would think that you would at least appreciate what the NRA does to protect it. If not for them, the 2nd amendment would be a thing of the past and our constitution would be useless.

Wrecked Neck wrote:

HeavyThrashhead wrote:

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Ummm, if you murder someone, or even get convicted for any type of felony, your guns rights are revoked, just like your rights to vote. That's one of the questions they ask you on the background check before you're allowed to buy the firearm "have you ever been convicted as a felon" is probably the first thing they ask.

Not sure what you're talking about in regards to you NRA statement, could you elaborate why you think the NRA are pieces of shit? Not sure I understand what you're saying is all. Are you saying they don't want people's guns rights revoked that have committed mass shootings? If that's what you think, I think you've been misled somewhere down the line.

i don't know, cause it seems like with the recent cases, i think they are easy to manipulate the Gun Dealer to into thinking that he has never killed someone.

i thought i did elaborate as clear as possible, so let me make it clear again, cause i'm not mislead. even if the guy is Mentally disabled, the guy is still Protected by The Constitution in the eyes of the NRA. the reason why nobody will even propose those facts, is cause the NRA will immediately sue to in order to keep their own asses getting busted, just like how Politicians will do anything to make sure that their asses don't get landed in Jail whenever certain shipment of Guns (from "hired" Arms Dealers) that are from the United Sates are just given away to Terrorists. will they get blamed?...yes, but they will never lose their position in power, just like the NRA and it's utter bullshit.

so to make it clear. it's all Politician like conduct. no one over there is clean, their dirty manipulative billionaires who will do anything in power to keep their money rolling in. they don't care who the F*ck is buying their weapons, as long as they rake in that Ca$h. it's pathetic.

If you look on the paperwork you fill out when buying a gun, you will also see questions about mental health. I posted a link to this on page one I think.

The NRA doesn't go around suing people, unless you are an anti gun politician trying to pass a law that goes AGAINST the constitution. Exactly like anti gun politicians have sued gun manufacturers for crimes done with weapons they have made. They have no shot at winning those lawsuits, and they know it. Their only motive is to cost the manufacturer money in hopes that they will eventually give up and close shop. If not for the NRA fighting against these frivolous lawsuits, that tactic would win every time.

I'm sorry, but for someone that seems to love the constitution as much as you come off, you would think that you would at least appreciate what the NRA does to protect it. If not for them, the 2nd amendment would be a thing of the past and our constitution would be useless.

The NRA are run by a bunch of racist and paranoid bigots:http://www.cracked.com/article_25502_6-underreported-reasons-why-nra-are-just-worst.html

Thrasher73 wrote:

I'm still shaking my head at his argument for Chicagos crime rate.

Vexer you need to chill man. We're all adults here and enjoy a good discussion. No need to get pissed and start calling names because everyone doesn't agree with your views.No one will listen to you with that attitude.

Why are you "shaking your head"? Because you know i'm right?

You wouldn't listen to me no matter. You just blindly believe everything those idiots Wayne and Dana will tell you.

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

James B. wrote:

What is mind boggling is there are people who actually believe that a ban on guns via legislation will  make them magically disappear forever off the face of the earth.   Look at all the other things that are illegal and are still around & highly profitable.  Most people are law abiding for the most part.  Yet if somebody really wants to get access to something, do you honestly believe any law is going to stop them from obtaining it ?   (IMHO)The gun isn't as much of the problem as society in general.  There are countless forms of media out there that glorify violence, which can desensitize an individual to the consequences, the impact on those victimized (directly/indirectly), and blind to other options that might lead to making a different choice.  "My life sucks and they will remember me now" has nothing to do with a gun, the gun is just a means to an end. The real problem is what makes somebody think that way to begin with. That particular thought process is becoming more and more prevalent in modern society.  Nobody wants to point a finger at themselves, be it the parents, the family, the educators, the community, the medical professionals, the government, law enforcement, the individual, and the list goes on.

That dosen't mean there should be zero restrictions, the Parkland shooter was able to buy a gun because there was no law restricting people under 21 from buying them.  Also as someone from Illinois i'm sick to death of people using Chicago as an excuse for why gun laws don't work, here's the thing-Chicago gets a lot of gun deaths because the states surrounding Illinois have extremely weak gun laws that make it easy for them to get trafficked in.

Also Ted Nugent can kiss my ass, i've had a problem with his idiotic statements for a long time, but this is a new low for him:https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/03/30/nra-board-member-ted-nugent-calls-parkland-students-poor-pathetic-liars-no-soul/219803

Jessie Hughes can burn in hell too.

Anyone who thinks we don't have enough guns is insane IMO. After all other developed countries don't have nearly as many guns as we do and have a much lower murder rate, so i'm having a tough time understanding people who believe we need more of the damn things even though we already have more guns then people.

Personally I support the Parkland students 100%, i'm sick of the NRA's death grip on politicians and preventing research into gun violence, anyone who attacks the students is human garbage as far as i'm concerned.  The sooner the NRA gets the hell out of politics the better, ironically they got into politics because they were paranoid over black people owning guns.

To be clear I don't think all NRA members are bad people, but the people in charge of the NRA and on their board are all scumbags who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, especially Dana Loesch(stupid Catch U Next Tuesday) and Wayne La Pierre(no Wayne, violent video games were not responsible for Sandy Hook you dickhead).

So because he was under 21, he should not be allowed to buy a gun? Then all those men and women in our military should not be allowed to join the military either. And if an 18 year old man or woman can vote, drive a vehicle, and defend our nation, they should also be allowed to own a firearm if they want one. What does age have to do with this? Why do your types cling onto these ignorant rants created by the media? Up until this last shooting, not once was it mentioned that they should raise the age to 21 in order to buy a firearm. Now all of a sudden you people cling to this one thing and try to make it gospel.

Your whole Chicago argument isn't really making much sense either. LA, New York, DC, Detroit, all these places are strict on guns, and have extreme violent crime rates. I guess they all border lacking gun restricted states and cities so that's the whole reason why huh? Nothing to do with the fact that criminal really don't have to think twice about being criminal because the main populace around them are unarmed, and therefore they have nothing to fear.

And your sick of the NRA's deathgrip on politicians? You should be thanking them from the bottom of your heart for what they have done for this country. I could go on, but I have a feeling it will end up getting out of hand, and it's not like whatever I say will change your mind, so I'll just say have a nice night.

Thanking the NRA? LOL now that's goddamn hilarious! I should "thank them" for inspiring people like Timothy McVeigh to kill a whole bunch of people? I should thank them for spreading racist rhetoric and promotes violence towards minorities? I should thank them for attacking survivors of a mass shooting? F that.

The NRA has done NOTHING positive for this country.