Nuclear Assault Survive Bootleg or not?

I'm always looking for this cd and since the price goes up pretty high I don't even bother. Just by chance I looked on amazon and there was 1 for $20. Thats not too bad seeing the price this goes for from time to time. I got it in the mail today and its the "Under One Flag" version. I'm questioning it because its in pretty good condition almost excellent, so I'm just wondering what do I need to look for to tell if this is a bootleg or not?

Mine is on IRS Metal. A lot of the Under One Flag ones that I've seen look way too new to be legit. Also a lot of the listings for them call it a reissue. I could be wrong but I don't think it ever was legitimately reissued. Looking it up on amazon, I see the usual bootleg suspects all selling it. Unfortunately, I hate to say it, but it is probably a bootleg you got. Watch to see if the person you got it from list it again. Thats always a telltale sign.

Usual Russian "reissue" bootleg. You could have gotten it on eGay for under $10 from one of the usual Russian and Ukrainian bootleg sellers...

On a good note Amazon have concrete return policy and you can send it back for full refund.

Yea I was thinking its probably too good to be true that its a legit version. Its just too clean. Theres a few spots on the cd itself but nothing that looks like its as old as it should be.

I might just keep it though cause really it looks fine and plays fine. It just bothers me that you can't even trust sellers on amazon.

I'm pretty sure my copy is one of those fake bootlegs. I guess I don't mind since it looks identical to the real deal

I got one for around that price a few weeks ago. It was also an Under One Flag version and I think the seller was based out of either New York or New Jersey, but they had a very Russian sounding name. I compared the CD to the MP3 version I downloaded that supposedly came from a Japanese pressing. I burnt that to a CD-R and put both versions in my CD changer. The downloaded version sounded better (fuller, more bass). I was kinda pissed that I spent that much money for a copy that doesn't sound as good as one I downloaded for free, though that may be due to the superior Japanese mastering. It looks pretty legit, but I suspect mine is probably a bootleg too.

Edit: Correction... I just checked on Amazon. The seller was newboyzintown and they're based out of Illinois, not NY or NJ. They're selling the same Cd in the used section for even less now, so I'm 100% sure I've got a bootleg.

They really just need to reissue it. I don't see why it hasn't been when both Game Over and Handle with Care have been.

Was that the only album they did for IRS? I've always assumed the label was the problem with getting it reissued. I don't think IRS exists anymore, do they?

adrian wrote:

They really just need to reissue it. I don't see why it hasn't been when both Game Over and Handle with Care have been.

Each album came out on a different record label. Survive was on I.R.S. and that stuff has proved difficult to license for reissues. There are a few Sabbath albums on I.R.S. that haven't been reissued in the States (though you can find European reissues since Sabbath had a different label deal overseas).

Quote :

Was that the only album they did for IRS? I've always assumed the label was the problem with getting it reissued. I don't think IRS exists anymore, do they?

I.R.S. ceased to exist in 1996, their catalog was purchased by E.M.I.

S.D. wrote:

adrian wrote:

They really just need to reissue it. I don't see why it hasn't been when both Game Over and Handle with Care have been.

Each album came out on a different record label. Survive was on I.R.S. and that stuff has proved difficult to license for reissues. There are a few Sabbath albums on I.R.S. that haven't been reissued in the States (though you can find European reissues since Sabbath had a different label deal overseas).

Quote :

Was that the only album they did for IRS? I've always assumed the label was the problem with getting it reissued. I don't think IRS exists anymore, do they?

I.R.S. ceased to exist in 1996, their catalog was purchased by E.M.I.

Ah that makes sense, I guess it also explains why Out of Order and Something Wicked are out of print. Luckily I do have originals of those ones!

Infinite wrote:

I got one for around that price a few weeks ago. It was also an Under One Flag version and I think the seller was based out of either New York or New Jersey, but they had a very Russian sounding name. I compared the CD to the MP3 version I downloaded that supposedly came from a Japanese pressing. I burnt that to a CD-R and put both versions in my CD changer. The downloaded version sounded better (fuller, more bass). I was kinda pissed that I spent that much money for a copy that doesn't sound as good as one I downloaded for free, though that may be due to the superior Japanese mastering. It looks pretty legit, but I suspect mine is probably a bootleg too.

Edit: Correction... I just checked on Amazon. The seller was newboyzintown and they're based out of Illinois, not NY or NJ. They're selling the same Cd in the used section for even less now, so I'm 100% sure I've got a bootleg.

Thats the same guy I bought mine from. Maybe I will return it then and buy the cheaper one lol. It's really stupid though. It looks good but I was looking at it today and theres a really small pin hole in the cd that goes all the way through. I knew it was too good to be true.

You guys shouldn't let them get away with it. You got ripped off (and not for just a few bucks either). Return it and leave feedback explaining what it is you got. The thing that kills me about the bootleggers is how high their feedback is. I can understand on ebay since they can return bad feedback thus holding you hostage. But on amazon it is only the seller getting feedback.

And for all the trouble hopefully a legit copy will turn up for you like it eventually did for me.

Anytime I see anything on IRS Metal I buy it knowing it is a) good stuff - have never found anything on the label I didn't at least like b) probably rare as all hell at this point. I believe IRS had some complicated business arrangements that make it next to impossible to obtain the rights for reissues. Which is why it all goes for crazy prices. I think the company was purchased a bunch of times as well.

Quote :

I.R.S. ceased to exist in 1996, their catalog was purchased by E.M.I.

I didn't even know EMI was even still in existence. I thought they were bought out long ago like everyone else. Really sucks that these business deals end up hurting the fans who just want to get a hold of the music. Even worse is that there is probably some decent money to be made off these albums. Clearly the bootleggers are.

jstate wrote:

I didn't even know EMI was even still in existence. I thought they were bought out long ago like everyone else. Really sucks that these business deals end up hurting the fans who just want to get a hold of the music. Even worse is that there is probably some decent money to be made off these albums. Clearly the bootleggers are.

E.M.I. is being purchased by Universal Music Group.

The downfall of the music industry goes back farther than the "download era", it started with the majors buying out all their competing record labels and merging them into a huge corporate monster. Competition is GOOD for music, these smaller record labels generally had their own identity and brought interesting things to the table...once all the smaller labels were swallowed up that identity vanished from the marketplace.

Too true and so sad.

i would return it too - bootleggers suck!!!

I actually wrote to him this morning saying I wanted my money back because its a bootleg so I'll see what he says.

Well.... I just checked my mail and there was a full refund from amazon, so looks like I got the cd for free.

That's the thing about these guys - they don't want to risk their operation on people who know what they are up to and might expose them. Good that you got a full refund. I know sometimes these types try to weasel out for a half refund at first.

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of feedback did you leave?

adrian wrote:

They really just need to reissue it. I don't see why it hasn't been when both Game Over and Handle with Care have been.

What he said.

Yeah, not to mention thrash metal is so much more popular than it was a dozen years ago. Just about every classic '80s thrash album has been re-issued besides this one. I bought Survive on eBay eight years ago and it's still one of the most expensive CDs I've ever purchased. I'm pretty sure I purchased it from a seller in Australia. Mine is from Under One Flag, but I think it is an official copy, there is a UPC code on the back and everything.

The only way Survive will get reissued is if another reissue label like Rhino or Wounded Bird licenses it from Universal/E.M.I. The potential sales of that reissue probably doesn't meet the threshold that a major demands.

jstate wrote:

That's the thing about these guys - they don't want to risk their operation on people who know what they are up to and might expose them. Good that you got a full refund. I know sometimes these types try to weasel out for a half refund at first.

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of feedback did you leave?

I didn't leave any. I usually dont on Amazon because I order so much stuff I literally have pages and pages to go through.

What's the matrix number Wayne? Mine's official, I can let you know.

S.D. wrote:

The only way Survive will get reissued is if another reissue label like Rhino or Wounded Bird licenses it from Universal/E.M.I. The potential sales of that reissue probably doesn't meet the threshold that a major demands.

Wounded Bird cannot really compete with bootlegs as their re-issues are utterly budget and cheap-looking, sometimes under-packed than the original pressings (if that is even possible, hah). No bonuses or liner notes either, which to me is an indication the original artists were not involved in the re-releases.

Moreover, they are a company located in NY, yet they do not accept orders within NY state, the only reasonable explanation for which would be they do not wish to pay sale taxes... a strange move for a company which supposedly unloaded thousands upon thousands for licensing all those titles from major labels... just saying...

DeathCult wrote:

What's the matrix number Wayne? Mine's official, I can let you know.

Current Russian bootlegs come with proper matrix numbers. It makes them very hard to spot.