What Is Metal?

Troublezone wrote:

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It was just a general statement using the logic that metal can't have blues based riffs, have to be as heavy as the bands of today, etc.

Tell that to Larry Farkas.

Heck yeah! "Once Dead" (the album) is a thrash album full of blues riffs. Same with Die Happy and Sircle of Silence.

Badlands too.

Anybody who thinks "metal" can't include blues riffs, seriously needs to have their ears re-wired. They should be tied in a chair and force fed the entire 50's & 60's Chess catalog.

I think that if we all got academic-like for a moment we could use the combined power and intellect of all metallic beings and devise a workable definition of what constitutes The Heavy. The more I think about it, I like the idea that Metal is music which has dark, negative or evil subject matter and which is played in minor keys. Because, this rules out things which might have hard or heavy guitars, but are clearly not Heavy Metal...like the Van Halens of the world, and the countless amounts of modern Pop groups which now use heavy guitar parts, like the Creeds of the world.

Then, ya got common elements like staccato, galloping rhythm guitar playing. That's a general guideline which can work in the definition. What else ya got on yer plates, kids? How about pointing out that the form uses heavy, thick 'distortion' on loud guitars. Metal performance styles are generally associated with masculinity and male aggression, right? Rhythmically complex drum patterns as the driving force behind the form. What else, man? Think, dag nabbit!

Marc Mason wrote:

I think that if we all got academic-like for a moment we could use the combined power and intellect of all metallic beings and devise a workable definition of what constitutes The Heavy. The more I think about it, I like the idea that Metal is music which has dark, negative or evil subject matter and which is played in minor keys. Because, this rules out things which might have hard or heavy guitars, but are clearly not Heavy Metal...like the Van Halens of the world, and the countless amounts of modern Pop groups which now use heavy guitar parts, like the Creeds of the world.

Then, ya got common elements like staccato, galloping rhythm guitar playing. That's a general guideline which can work in the definition. What else ya got on yer plates, kids? How about pointing out that the form uses heavy, thick 'distortion' on loud guitars. Metal performance styles are generally associated with masculinity and male aggression, right? Rhythmically complex drum patterns as the driving force behind the form. What else, man? Think, dag nabbit!

I see where you're going, but almost all of those items exist in other forms of music.

For example, "minor keys"...the majority of blues, rock & jazz are all in minor keys. You could maybe deviate a little bit on scales (most rock & metal is pentatonic based, most jazz is Dorian based, etc). But that's a generalization.

But again, I still question whether it really matters or not. Heavy Metal/Hard Rock/Acid Rock/Heavy Rock...whatever...if it JAMS it JAMS. The older I get, the more all these damn definitions and pigeonhole-inducing sub-genres names make me want to go POSTAL.

Yeah, but there's gotta be a way of delivering a lowest-common-denominator type definition which provides the ground floor which all the many genres of Metal build from. Dig?

The lowest common denominator for me is this: Whatever makes me want to headbang and do air guitar (together) is metal. Non-metal may make me want to do air guitar but not headbang. Some (very little) non-metal may make me want to move my head but not do air guitar. So that's it for me .

Well, that's it, then. The final word on a definition.

Heavy Metal (n. v. adj.) - That which makes one want to bang their head to and fro, up and back, left and right.

But, then, couldn't many of our past girlfriends be defined as Heavy Metal? I can think of two doozies who had me banging my head every night.

Marc Mason wrote:

Well, that's it, then. The final word on a definition.

Heavy Metal (n. v. adj.) - That which makes one want to bang their head to and fro, up and back, left and right.

But, then, couldn't many of our past girlfriends be defined as Heavy Metal? I can think of two doozies who had me banging my head every night.

Great answer.

manny wrote:

Marc Mason wrote:

Well, that's it, then. The final word on a definition.

Heavy Metal (n. v. adj.) - That which makes one want to bang their head to and fro, up and back, left and right.

But, then, couldn't many of our past girlfriends be defined as Heavy Metal? I can think of two doozies who had me banging my head every night.

Great answer.

good lord....

Oh snap, dem ho's wild.

I have a much more expansive definition of metal than most, so my view of metal is that it is a much larger & more far-reaching genre than many metal purists would ever agree with. As far as I'm concerned, the metallic hardcore of the last 15 years is a part of metal, as is most grindcore (including e-grind), and a lot of the grunge bands that had a heavier, more sludgy sound or more biting guitar. I always thought Nirvana was a different distillation of the darker elements of 70's hard rock/metal - lots of Sabbath influence in their style.

But that's just me; I'm sure most would burn me at the stake for such heresy

MetalFRO wrote:

I have a much more expansive definition of metal than most, so my view of metal is that it is a much larger & more far-reaching genre than many metal purists would ever agree with. As far as I'm concerned, the metallic hardcore of the last 15 years is a part of metal, as is most grindcore (including e-grind), and a lot of the grunge bands that had a heavier, more sludgy sound or more biting guitar. I always thought Nirvana was a different distillation of the darker elements of 70's hard rock/metal - lots of Sabbath influence in their style.

But that's just me; I'm sure most would burn me at the stake for such heresy

Maybe not on the Nirvana front but I always considered Alice In Chains metal.

^^ Yeah, that I understand. It's like that line where some people consider "hair metal" to be metal, and some just consider it rock or hard rock. I guess I'm in the camp that considers it to be at the bottom end of the metal spectrum, since most of it is a lighter distillation of 70's metal, and to a lesser extent, NWOBHM and 70's glam rock. From that perspective, Nirvana could be considered on the lighter end of that, and you get heavier from there into AiC, Soundgarden, Tad, Fudgetunnel, The Melvins, etc. Most of the legitimate grunge bands were heavily influenced by Black Sabbath, and since their stuff is a modern distillation of that, I consider it part of the metal lexicon, even if not in its purest form.

But again, I'm in the minority on that

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Maybe not on the Nirvana front but I always considered Alice In Chains metal.

That's because they are... They got lumped with the grunge because of time and place.

This is all an exercise in futility. Because it now looks like we'll have to accept that some bands have a Metalic influence, without actually being Metal. Nirvana being a good case in point. I don't think that the Hair bands should ever be categorized as such because the music was far too light for a nod. In many cases it was just bubblegum Pop Rock, like with Poison.

Tony Iommi eschews the "metal" tag, he considers Black Sabbath hard rock.

The Doors are not metal, but they do rock!

Ya know I never heard the term "heavy metal" 'till around 82, it was all rock, hard rock, rock-n-roll and pop before that.

The whole term New Wave of British Heavy Metal implies there was an earlier wave of British heavy metal. And that's exactly what was there was, ten years prior to NWOBHM.

The early 70's bands pioneered the genre. Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc. Sure, some of these bands turned out to be more than 'just' heavy metal. For instance, Led Zeppelin is definitely beyond the genre. They did play an early style of metal, but they were also a hugely popular rock group at the same time. That's why they get lumped in as 'classic rock' a lot of times.

Like I said, in the end all heavy metal is just a type of rock music.

Lari wrote:

The whole term New Wave of British Heavy Metal implies there was an earlier wave of British heavy metal. And that's exactly what was there was, ten years prior to NWOBHM.

The early 70's bands pioneered the genre. Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc. Sure, some of these bands turned out to be more than 'just' heavy metal. For instance, Led Zeppelin is definitely beyond the genre. They did play an early style of metal, but they were also a hugely popular rock group at the same time. That's why they get lumped in as 'classic rock' a lot of times.

Like I said, in the end all heavy metal is just a type of rock music.

Stuff from early Kiss and/or Aerosmith wouldn't be out of place in what some softer NWOBHM bands like Battleaxe or Dark Star brough to the table. So I do consider certain albums from said first two bands Metal. As well as works from Ted Nugent, Thin Lizzy, Alice Cooper, and other acts from the 70's. I'm really no connosieur, but I'm glad I have found certain similarities with my views in this thread.

Also I would consider ''Hair Metal'' more metal than grunge. For the mere fact that I found it more ''skilled'' musically. Shout At The Devil, Stay Hungry and even New Jersey (LOL), had killer songs and/or great guitar $HlT.

Necrosultan wrote:

Stuff from early Kiss and/or Aerosmith wouldn't be out of place in what some softer NWOBHM bands like Battleaxe or Dark Star brough to the table.

Sure, like Seasons Of Wither from Get Your Wings. It has a strong resemblence to some of the slower NWOBHM songs (at least to my ears).

I cant wait for the day when people will consider Slayer a hard rock band. HAhahahaha!!! That would be awesome.

Metal will always be around. It will always make us bang our heads, buy BMWs and speed on the highways.

candlemass wrote:

Tony Iommi eschews the "metal" tag, he considers Black Sabbath hard rock.

The Doors are not metal, but they do rock!

Ya know I never heard the term "heavy metal" 'till around 82, it was all rock, hard rock, rock-n-roll and pop before that.

Where were you hiding that you had never heard the term before '82? The NWOBHM movement started before that. There were heavy metal magazines before that. Their were Heavy Metal compilations before that. I considered myself a heavy metal fan in the 70's when I was a fan of Thin Lizzy, Sabbath, Priest, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent and Kiss.