What Is Metal?

Whatever it is to you, is what it is.

To me, Van Halen, Queen, Kiss, Zeppelin, Purple, and Aerosmith all to be old school heavy metal.

I think all metal is hard rock. Just like all hard rock is rock, just a heavier and harder type of rock. And when it comes down to it, all that rock music is, is just a type of pop music, or light music, or popular music or whatever you want to call it. As opposed to 'serious' music, classical that is.

Of course you can go more specific, and that is usually advisable, when talking about a band. I've seen mainstream news bits refer to Slayer as a hard rock band, though I guess a more accurate description would be heavy metal, or better yet, thrash metal.

I guess what's difficult is seeing what band is metal and what is 'just' hard rock. Who do you include in the 'metal' subgenre? What I'm thinking is, it doesn't really matter as much as some people may think. I am personally an inclusionist, which means I tend to call a lot of borderline bands metal, just because I think it applies to them better than just hard rock. I'm sure some only call Manowar and guys who wear loin cloths true metal, or say only underground Norwegian black metal is tr00 metal, calling all others posers.

Here's another question: Does hardcore count as metal? I usually exclude bands that really don't sound too much like heavy metal, ie. they are pure noise, and though they play with guitars and drums, it's still like from a different background (grunge, alternative?), as opposed to extreme death and thrash metal bands that do sound like speed metal, just more, well... extreme.

I guess you could see rock music divide into different subgenres: pop rock, folk rock, hard/heavy rock, punk rock, hardcore, alternative rock etc? Or is hardcore just a metal subgenre?

Sorry about the running sentences, by the way.

ultmetal wrote:

It's all rock and roll to me! Aerosmith, Ted Nugent and Kiss will always be the bands that got me into heavy metal when I was in grade school in the 70's. Soon after I discovered Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Blue Oyster Cult, then on to Mercyful Fate, Anthrax, Metallica, Queensryche, Saxon, Iron Maiden, Celtic Frost, Cirith Ungol, etc. Next it was on to Kreator, Sodom, Death, Possessed, Carcass, Napalm Death, etc. It just kept getting heavier and heavier, faster and faster.

This is my answer too

For me everything between HARD AOR and BLACK METAL is METAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but thats just my personal opinion. If its wrong, i dont care.

"After a Nuclear Holocaust,survivors will crawl out of the rubble and one Man,the Singer of Songs,will sing.That is Metal!"

I don't care if Krokus cares. That is METAL! [kiddin' bro]

kmorg wrote:

Heavy Metal is pretty much all the bands that can be traced back to the mighty Sabbath.....

Are you saying Heavy Metal can be traced back to a single common ancestor.......quite controversial.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

While I personally never thought of a band like Aerosmith as "heavy metal", I can certainly see their influence on the genre and understand how the term was applied to them back in the 70's.

In regards to the original question though, I've stopped caring what other people's definition of rock or metal might be. I can't define it either, but I knows it when I hears it.

Aerosmith actually had their hand in a bunch of different cookie jars before they settled on the one their tatlents were best suited for. A couple of Aero tracks come directly to mind when you think of their catalog from a Metal angle. Anyone familiar with their song, 'Nobody's Fault', or how about 'Round and Round'. I have a sample of the latter, right here, son: http://www.imeem.com/szakal/music/kLRha_dE/aerosmith-round-and-round/ . Nice. Tyler uses a different vocal approach on these songs, and the guitars are more along the lines of typical 70's Metal.

You say, "I can't define it, but I know it when I hear it." This sums up things pretty well, actually. But, you can indeed add at least some important criteria to a working definition. What we usually think of as Metal is usually music played in minor keys. Right?...although, this is no steadfast rule. How about staccato, galloping rhythm parts. That's a general guideline too. What else?

Thanks for that sample, SON!!

whatever you want it to be.

sam wrote:

whatever you want it to be.

I disagree. I cannot be whatever people want it to be.

Metal has a history. Revisionists would like to change history. People now argue that bands like Saxon, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. are "just hard rock." These are the bands that helped define the genre. Those who claim they are not metal are just wrong! You'd have a better case for saying that many of the newer bands are not metal based on the fact that those bands are defined the genre.

The term "heavy metal" was universally used in the 1970's. It was used by the press. It was used by the fans. It was used by the bands.

Quote :

The madman's band is the greatest gonzoid heavy metal outfit to be found anywhere-but anywhere-on the whole of our beleaguered planet" -Sounds, 1978

Quote :

And the sledgehammer that powers the American Heavy Metal Machines is undeniably Aerosmith. -Grooves Magazine, 1978

Metal has morphed and changed over the decades. Most now consider these bands to be hard rock and not heavy metal. However, that distinction wasn't there in the 70's. I have no problem redefining the term, but it's the denial that bands like Blue Oyster Cult, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, etc were ever called metal that irks me.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's just fact.

Can't argure with Ult. Well, there was this one guy but after Ult gave him some "persuasion" he saw the light. And that's metal.

Quote :

Metal has a history. Revisionists would like to change history. People now argue that bands like Saxon, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. are "just hard rock

I haven't heard anyone call those bands hard rock. Van Halen and Twisted Sister on the other hand have been called just rock.

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

Metal has a history. Revisionists would like to change history. People now argue that bands like Saxon, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. are "just hard rock

I haven't heard anyone call those bands hard rock. Van Halen and Twisted Sister on the other hand have been called just rock.

Go read my Hall Of Shame. There is at least one letter there by someone claiming that Judas Priest are just hard rock. He even makes the argument that if the music incorporated blues riffing at all, it cannot be heavy metal.





P.S. Van Halen use to adorn the cover of just about every heavy metal magazine in the 70's and 80's because they were a metal band.

Twisted Sister, another of those bands that helped define the genre. If Under the Blade isn't heavy metal...

ultmetal wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

Metal has a history. Revisionists would like to change history. People now argue that bands like Saxon, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. are "just hard rock

I haven't heard anyone call those bands hard rock. Van Halen and Twisted Sister on the other hand have been called just rock.

Go read my Hall Of Shame. There is at least one letter there by someone claiming that Judas Priest are just hard rock. He even makes the argument that if the music incorporated blues riffing at all, it cannot be heavy metal.

That's absurd! Painkiller is as far away from hard rock as they come...

Troublezone wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

Metal has a history. Revisionists would like to change history. People now argue that bands like Saxon, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. are "just hard rock

I haven't heard anyone call those bands hard rock. Van Halen and Twisted Sister on the other hand have been called just rock.

Go read my Hall Of Shame. There is at least one letter there by someone claiming that Judas Priest are just hard rock. He even makes the argument that if the music incorporated blues riffing at all, it cannot be heavy metal.

That's absurd! Painkiller is as far away from hard rock as they come...

Right, but what about Stained Class, Sin After Sin, etc. By today's standards they aren't heavy enough to be considered "heavy metal". Those albums incorporate blues riffs. Also, they were released in the 70's, before there was such a things a "heavy metal". At least that is the logic.

Quote :

P.S. Van Halen use to adorn the cover of just about every heavy metal magazine in the 70's and 80's because they were a metal band.

Twisted Sister, another of those bands that helped define the genre. If Under the Blade isn't heavy metal...

I can see them as being 70's metal but the label "heavy rock" works too. Van Halen today is not a metal band like they were in 1978-1982 and i would say Twisted Sister should be classified as metal to this day.

The only thing I see as to why Van Halen couldn't be labeled as a metal band is because of the lighter production. People tend to think today you need detuned guitars instead of heavy riffs to be metal. You can't tell me Hot for Teacher, House of Pain, Everybody Wants Some, and Somebody Get Me a Doctor aren't heavy enough riffs to compete with Priest and Sabbath. In fact, they opened for Sabbath after putting their self-titled recorded out.

xyz wrote:

People tend to think today you need detuned guitars instead of heavy riffs to be metal.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! EXACTLY.

I think Van Halen is a heavy rock band. Maybe it's because their image was more rock oriented. I also think Sabbath was heavy rock even though they gave birth to bands that would become metal (judas priest).

rattpoison wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Heavy Metal is pretty much all the bands that can be traced back to the mighty Sabbath.....

Are you saying Heavy Metal can be traced back to a single common ancestor.......quite controversial.

Yet still true........ to me

ultmetal wrote:

sam wrote:

whatever you want it to be.

I disagree. I cannot be whatever people want it to be.

Metal has a history. Revisionists would like to change history. People now argue that bands like Saxon, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. are "just hard rock." These are the bands that helped define the genre. Those who claim they are not metal are just wrong! You'd have a better case for saying that many of the newer bands are not metal based on the fact that those bands are defined the genre.

The term "heavy metal" was universally used in the 1970's. It was used by the press. It was used by the fans. It was used by the bands.

Quote :

The madman's band is the greatest gonzoid heavy metal outfit to be found anywhere-but anywhere-on the whole of our beleaguered planet" -Sounds, 1978

Quote :

And the sledgehammer that powers the American Heavy Metal Machines is undeniably Aerosmith. -Grooves Magazine, 1978

Metal has morphed and changed over the decades. Most now consider these bands to be hard rock and not heavy metal. However, that distinction wasn't there in the 70's. I have no problem redefining the term, but it's the denial that bands like Blue Oyster Cult, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, etc were ever called metal that irks me.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's just fact.

people use metal as a term to describe pretty much any form of heavy music, so therefore is has become so ambiguous in meaning that what you think of as heavy metal can be completely different from what I think.

so for a fan, it can be whatever one wants it to be.

Go ask any 20 people on the street to give you an example of a definitive heavy metal band...I bet you'd get the oddest answers. The term is so broad and covers so many different styles it literally can mean many different things to different people.