That's funny....

Eyesore wrote:

detuned wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

My generation had drummers like Gene Hoglan (who wipes the floor with Bonham).

Comparing a thrash drummer to Bonham...you might as well be talking about different instruments, it's a COMPLETELY different aesthetic.

I wasn't aware that Gene was a thrash drummer.

Okay, now I'm confused. Are we not talking about the guy from Dark Angel?

Some of you are terrible at trying to make argument points. Bonham might have been the best drummer of his time, but his time was not my time. Understand now? I simply cannot view him in the same light, because by the time I really began to take note of musicians, there were too many that were simply far better. Same goes for Hendrix and Page.

If I were a teen in the 70s, I might have a different opinion, but I was a baby. The difference is that I have no problems giving an opinion with the caveat of ignorance. Unlike so many others here. I still don't think, going by today's standard, that Bonham was anything special. Sorry. Good, capable, but nothing special.

detuned wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

detuned wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

My generation had drummers like Gene Hoglan (who wipes the floor with Bonham).

Comparing a thrash drummer to Bonham...you might as well be talking about different instruments, it's a COMPLETELY different aesthetic.

I wasn't aware that Gene was a thrash drummer.

Okay, now I'm confused. Are we not talking about the guy from Dark Angel?

We are. He's not always been in thrash bands.

Quote :

If I were a teen in the 70s, I might have a different opinion

Just like Rattpoison, huh? The guys barely 22 and has a lot of knowledge of 70's rock and he actually prefers it.

Music is music but your comparison is stupid... How about Charlie Watts vs Dave Lombardo?

Quote :

I still don't think, going by today's standard, that Bonham was anything special.

Today's standard? So only drummers from the 80's on are any good? What's the difference, double bass? Technicality isn't always what makes a drummer better.

Eyesore wrote:

Some of you are terrible at trying to make argument points. Bonham might have been the best drummer of his time, but his time was not my time. Understand now? I simply cannot view him in the same light, because by the time I really began to take note of musicians, there were too many that were simply far better. Same goes for Hendrix and Page.

If I were a teen in the 70s, I might have a different opinion, but I was a baby. The difference is that I have no problems giving an opinion with the caveat of ignorance. Unlike so many others here. I still don't think, going by today's standard, that Bonham was anything special. Sorry. Good, capable, but nothing special.

I actually just don't believe it's a valid argument in the first place.

If your reference to "better" and "today's standards" are geared towards "chops", I will reiterate that technical ability alone does not make someone a good musician. I never said Bonham was the best drummer of his time, there were many other musicians in a variety of genres that were more technically skilled than Bonham, but he had his own style and his sound is instantly recognizable.

I was not a teenager in the 70's, but I did start to listen to music at a very young age (between 3 & 4 years old) and started choosing the records I wanted by the time I was 5. During the 80's I primarily listened to metal...but I always had an open ear and mind towards the influences that my favorite bands were drawing from. The more I listened and the more my taste developed, I began to realize that technical skills (while certainly nice to have) were not the primary ingredient to making memorable music.

You said: "The difference is that I have no problems giving an opinion with the caveat of ignorance."

I can respect that philosophy, I don't share it, but there's nothing wrong with it per se. However, if you stick to that then you shouldn't be comparing musicians in different styles of music that were decades apart from each other.

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

If I were a teen in the 70s, I might have a different opinion

Just like Rattpoison, huh? The guys barely 22 and has a lot of knowledge of 70's rock and he actually prefers it.

Music is music but your comparison is stupid... How about Charlie Watts vs Dave Lombardo?

I wasn't comparing. And if you thought I was, I clearly elaborated on what I previously said, making the notion that I was comparing completely nonsensical.

Quote :

I wasn't comparing. And if you thought I was, I clearly elaborated on what I previously said, making the notion that I was comparing completely nonsensical.

"Mop the floor" with Bonham speaks for itself and it is in fact comparing.

detuned wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Some of you are terrible at trying to make argument points. Bonham might have been the best drummer of his time, but his time was not my time. Understand now? I simply cannot view him in the same light, because by the time I really began to take note of musicians, there were too many that were simply far better. Same goes for Hendrix and Page.

If I were a teen in the 70s, I might have a different opinion, but I was a baby. The difference is that I have no problems giving an opinion with the caveat of ignorance. Unlike so many others here. I still don't think, going by today's standard, that Bonham was anything special. Sorry. Good, capable, but nothing special.

I actually just don't believe it's a valid argument in the first place.

If your reference to "better" and "today's standards" are geared towards "chops", I will reiterate that technical ability alone does not make someone a good musician. I never said Bonham was the best drummer of his time, there were many other musicians in a variety of genres that were more technically skilled than Bonham, but he had his own style and his sound is instantly recognizable.

I was not a teenager in the 70's, but I did start to listen to music at a very young age (between 3 & 4 years old) and started choosing the records I wanted by the time I was 5. During the 80's I primarily listened to metal...but I always had an open ear and mind towards the influences that my favorite bands were drawing from. The more I listened and the more my taste developed, I began to realize that technical skills (while certainly nice to have) were not the primary ingredient to making memorable music.

Of course it's a valid argument. Are you serious? I've listened to PLENTY of Zeppelin and Bonham's drumming to form my opinion. And for the record, I simply said he was overrated. I never said he wasn't a good drummer.

Quote :

You said: "The difference is that I have no problems giving an opinion with the caveat of ignorance."

I can respect that philosophy, I don't share it, but there's nothing wrong with it per se. However, if you stick to that then you shouldn't be comparing musicians in different styles of music that were decades apart from each other.

Are you an alt-account of Troublezone?

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

I wasn't comparing. And if you thought I was, I clearly elaborated on what I previously said, making the notion that I was comparing completely nonsensical.

"Mop the floor" with Bonham speaks for itself and it is in fact comparing.

God. You are so unrepentant with your foolish ignorance. I feel like I'm talking to a child when conversing with you.

No, it's not comparing. Sorry. Suggesting one musician is better is not comparing, not in the least.

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Are you an alt-account of Troublezone?

LOL! Did you get any sleep today?

Quote :

No, it's not comparing. Sorry. Suggesting one musician is better is not comparing, not in the least.

What?? You are talking about two musicians and saying one is better. Do the math! Anyone that goes against your "logic" if i can call it that is inferior to you.

Eyesore wrote:

Of course it's a valid argument. Are you serious? I've listened to PLENTY of Zeppelin and Bonham's drumming to form my opinion. And for the record, I simply said he was overrated. I never said he wasn't a good drummer.

Have I ever come across as not being serious? Did you actually read my posts? If so, please point out where I accused you of calling Bonham a bad drummer. I said no such thing.

Quote :

God. You are so unrepentant with your foolish ignorance. I feel like I'm talking to a child when conversing with you.

What is this? A polite insult or something... You were comparing, get over it. You have a childish need to talk to others like you're better or the king of the hill that no one should dare disagree with. When you were made he broke the mold. Whatever...

More drummers can play like Hoglan than can play like Bonham. That isn't a comparison, a suggestion of whose better, or an arguement. It is a fact.

Man did I miss a lot. Here is how I look at things.

When comparing musicicans same era or not same genre or not, I look at it this way. What if you swapped them? Would one make the other band better? If you swap a thrash drummer with a rock drummer like Bonham, I guarantee you the thrash drummer would adjust a lot easier then Bonham as that style is easier to play.

I look at it this way for all instruments as well. Granted some musicians shouldn't be replaced because they have an identity and left a mark on the music world.

I always thought the guys from Zep were all overrated, people say they're the best but why? Is it because they're in a band called Zep? Being in a huge band has nothing to do with ones abilities on an instrument. All the Zep guys are great musicicans, but they're are just far more superior guys from there era and mine.

Also you have to look at it from a technical stand point as well. Look at Hendrix he is an innovator on guitar and had a huge influence on tons of musicicans. Listen to his playing, other then his clean songs he is very sloppy and is considered a legend because he was doing what he did, when no one else was.

Some of my fav players are from the 70's Allen Collins, Steve Gaines. Geddy Lee, Neail Peart, David Gilmour, Neal Schon, Geezer Butler, Kerry Livgren, Tom Scholz, and Stewart Copeland to just name a few.

I know a lot of people won't agree with me as I feel most of the people that are considered greats only get that status from being in popular bands. Most are great musicians but there are some great ones out there now that people overlook because of the bands that they are in.

You shouldn't deny a persons skills just because of the band he plays in.

Let me have it...

Websters dictionary definition is -

2 a: to examine the character or qualities of especially in order to discover resemblances or differences


Two names were mentioned, one was pronounced as better than the other, right? Can you say delusional?

MetalRob331 wrote:

Let me have it...

I would, but I'm too tired to write that much.

The bottom line is Bonham should have never been mentioned in the same sentence as Hoglan. Skill aside they are apples and oranges.

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

I still don't think, going by today's standard, that Bonham was anything special.

Today's standard? So only drummers from the 80's on are any good? What's the difference, double bass? Technicality isn't always what makes a drummer better.

Here is where I get confused my friend. I think people overlook technical ability. If you are more technical at an instrument then someone you are in a sense better then they are. If they can't play what you can, you are superior to them when it comes to being better. Now having an identity and being in a huge highly successful band is totally different because people will stick up for the person in the band that they like, creating an almost biased opinion.

Don't get me wrong being technical isn't always the best thing as some songs sound incredible with easy but just right notes.

I remember Dave Mustaine's quote about John Petrucci who I feel is one of the best guitar players ever technical wise and songwriting wise. He said "When you get that good and that technical at an instrument, you are going to lose emotion and feel" That pretty much is spot on.

detuned wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

Let me have it...

I would, but I'm too tired to write that much.

I always like reading what you have to say, i respect your opinion and everyone elses.

I understand Eyesore's opinion, but the point he needs to comprehend is that alot of practice can give any drummer the ability to play with the speed and dexterity of a Gene Hoglan. But all the practice in the world can never give a drummer the feel and timing of a John Bonham.

Quote :

I always thought the guys from Zep were all overrated,

No one said they are the best but as songwriters they are timeless. You know those players that can say more with one note than a shredder can with 100? I think Page was one of those and same with Bonham.

detuned wrote:

James B. wrote:

I understand Eyesore's opinion, but the point he needs to comprehend is that alot of practice can give any drummer the ability to play with the speed and dexterity of a Gene Hoglan. But all the practice in the world can never give a drummer the feel and timing of a John Bonham.

THANK YOU, YOU ARE A WISE AND ENLIGHTENED SOUL.

I was going to say the same thing.