Heavy metal: Why is old material better

How true is it? I notice that, in most of the cases, a band's old recording are far more interesting then many of their late releases...

cos it was made by youth energy, no $, just album with best sound ...

it's not a fact, but certainly the case some of the time. sometimes a band will simplify their sound in order to gain wider commercial acceptance (Judas Priest, Metallica, Megadeth), making their older material seem much more interesting.

I think hunger is the key element here. When you are young you play music you like, and are eager to get that recording contract, or whatever. But when the success is already htere another kind of pressure emerges. The pressure of selling more and more records. The hunger is replaced by anticipaton.

kmorg wrote:

I think hunger is the key element here. When you are young you play music you like, and are eager to get that recording contract, or whatever. But when the success is already htere another kind of pressure emerges. The pressure of selling more and more records. The hunger is replaced by anticipaton.

Well put.

Pressure I think is a big deal, from record companies to get album sales, bigger tours, possilble radio or mtv play. And from the fans, it used to be you'd get a new album from a band maybe once every 3 to 4 years, sometimes a band would kick out a album after two years. Now the fans expect a new album in the hands 18 months to two years and some bands pump albums out yearly. The fans expect it and complain if it does not happen. That time frame makes the bands have less time for creativity, and opens the door for poor writing and simplificating their music. I think too that usually when a band gets signed the first album or two is material that they have been playing for quite a while in clubs and at shows, at practices, and have been refined. i think that is why a lot of bands struggle with that 2nd and 3rd release.

Old material is better because I'm old.

1 reason:
NOSTALGIA!!!

Sometimes the newer material isn't any better or worse than the old material, but no matter how good an artists new material may be, nostalgia will always play a part in the fans. Many fans favorite albums by artists tend to be the one's they discovered first. In their minds nothing will ever be better than it, thus nothing ever will be. It's all a matter of opinion anyhow, so the nostalgia factor plays a huge part in people's minds. Nostalgia even makes mediocre and bad albums from the past seem much better than they really were.

I think it's a combination of all the reasons mentioned...plus there's also the additional fact that some bands just run out of steam over time.

The nostalgia angle definitely plays in if you've been listening to a band for 20+ years. But sometimes you may not discover a band until late in their career...which gives you a fresher, more open-minded perspective on their output.

Example: I didn't start listening to King Crimson until around 1997, by that point they had almost 30 years of recordings under their belt. So I was able to listen to their entire oeuvre without any preconceived notions.

Ult nailed it. It's nostalgia. There are a few bands that this can be said objectively about (Metallica, for example). But most bands this just isn't true, as most of the newer fans of a band will tell you.

Look at Saxon. Most of their fans prefer their older stuff, but as a Saxon newbie, I think their last several albums are amazing and the best in their catalog.

When you remove nostalgia, bands many times do improve over the years.

Sometimes the songs are strong, the production is top notch but the performance is weak. Too many bands from days past attempt to add elements of modern style or what is current. Most of the time, this clashes with the flow of something they already have dialed in.
To put it more simple, a musician may play in this technique / style with this sound or tone and is known for that.
Then they use a lil of this and a lil of that from a current trend and it doesn't fly as smooth due to it not being the natural way they play. This is noticeable and takes the vibe and / or groove out of something.

Don't question it, just love it.

I'm with Ult...a big part of it is the Nostalgia Factor...there's also something to be said for youthful enthusiasm vs. pressure to perform...

I think when a new band comes along and you listen to there debut and really like it, you really only know that band by that record. Its new music therefore its fresh to your ears. Then when a new record comes out you are putting your expectations too high for the next record.

It is too hard to consistantly put out great record after great record. If a band has longevity they will face a lot of changes in whats hot in the music industry. I personally dislike when bands follow trends or go different directions based on a record companies wants.

Overall I think we just hold our expectations too high. We hear a killer record and I guess we expect them to put out another stellar one after that.

I think it's fan ignorance, to be honest. Fans of music get older and change, they mature, evolve as humans, and they find it a natural thing to do so. But those same people can't grasp that bands are made up of humans, too, and change just like they do.

For every one person that thinks a band got worse as they progressed, there are two people that think they got better. It's all tastes, subjectivity. There is little true or false, right or wrong, when it comes to music.

Building on ULT's nostalgia theme, I think that music tends to resonate more during one's formative years. Our formative years start sometime in our childhood and tend to peak during one's college years/or life shortly after high school. It's the trials and tribulations during that period of time where one goes through quite a bit of self discovery. Heavy Metal for many was/is a gateway for expressing one's disallusionment with societal practices/norms.

The message could be something complex like what's stated in song like "War Pigs", and the feeling of mistrust regarding one's government, or something more simplistic like that of "We're Not Gonna Take It", which has many connotations. For myself, I gravitated towards Heavy Metal, because I liked going against the grain. I was 13 years old, and I wanted a little more than what Pop music could deliver. I didn't abandon Pop, but I wanted to see what was on the other side of the tracks so to speak. So, combine a 13 year old who's listening habits transferred over to angry young bands, and you have what amounts to a very "Impressionable" youth.

There in lies the key for many....one's impressionable period. For myself, music will always be a constant. Music didn't all of a sudden devoid itself of meaning when my impressionable years were over, but I lend more credence to those years involving music and being a young teenager. Hence, the "Nostaligia" factor...

Agreed, metalinmyveins.

I thought about this last night. I kinda grew up thinking listening to metal is just what people listen to. I always thought it was weird when guys I knew listened to anything else.

It's not nostalgia, it's the quality of the music.

Music is part inspiration and part perspiration. I won't comment on if these bands are inspired anymore, but they certainly don't seem to be working very hard to create great songs anymore.

When these bands were young, they pretty much just lived to play and put out music. Now these bands have wives/kids/divorces/mortages and all these other adult concerns to worry about. That takes a lot of time and energy away from creating music and this is very different than when they were young and their parents or girlfriends would pay their living expenses.

I also think when they were young they thought as long as they worked hard that the sky was the limit. I think they all hit a wall where they realized no matter what they do they can only sell a certain amount of albums and they start to wonder "what is the point?"

Quote :

youthful enthusiasm vs. pressure to perform...

SpectreFate wrote:

Agreed, metalinmyveins.

I thought about this last night. I kinda grew up thinking listening to metal is just what people listen to. I always thought it was weird when guys I knew listened to anything else.

Well for myself, I needed both "Heavy Metal" and "Pop". My Father was a huge Doo-Whop/R&B fan, and he deeply influenced me with the music he grew up with. I don't think there was anyway I was ever going to get away from various pop performers, no matter the decade. My theory is there's always going to be "The Good", "The Bad", and "In Between" as it pertains to those roaming this world. I think "Pop" music does a great job at expressing the good naturedness of human beings, but equally does a horrible job of expressing the evil tendencies of man. That's where "Heavy Metal" comes in. It's the equivalent of a good horror movie/crime book. "Heavy Metal" focused in on much that was bad, but eventually expounded on that and delved into life being more than the wretchedness that was man. I think "Heavy Metal" in the end did a better job focusing on both extremes, than that of "Pop", which really pigeonholes itself.

Temple of Blood wrote:

It's not nostalgia, it's the quality of the music.

Music is part inspiration and part perspiration. I won't comment on if these bands are inspired anymore, but they certainly don't seem to be working very hard to create great songs anymore.

When these bands were young, they pretty much just lived to play and put out music. Now these bands have wives/kids/divorces/mortages and all these other adult concerns to worry about. That takes a lot of time and energy away from creating music and this is very different than when they were young and their parents or girlfriends would pay their living expenses.

I also think when they were young they thought as long as they worked hard that the sky was the limit. I think they all hit a wall where they realized no matter what they do they can only sell a certain amount of albums and they start to wonder "what is the point?"

It's impossible to unequivocally state that it's not "Nostalgia" in any sense. By stating that, it would mean that every band from the 70's/80's, has put out inferior product ever since. I agree with you on a good part of what you wrote below, but you can't discount "Nostalgia". It's not what was just going on in the music world, but what was going on around the music world. The 80's are a prime example. It was a decade of excess in every way shape or form. It was the advent of video, which was new and exciting. It was the dress/style of that decade. The 80's were a very thematic decade, which compared to this decade is kind of bland.

There are so many factors involved...it's never any one thing...it's a combo of nostalgia, bands changing, fans changing, times changing, inspiration changing, circumstances changing...everything affects everything...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

There are so many factors involved...it's never any one thing...it's a combo of nostalgia, bands changing, fans changing, times changing, inspiration changing, circumstances changing...everything affects everything...

Totally agree...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

There are so many factors involved...it's never any one thing...it's a combo of nostalgia, bands changing, fans changing, times changing, inspiration changing, circumstances changing...everything affects everything...

I agree.

I think a band's first album tends to be it's heaviest (certainly not always, but often), hence maybe more appealing to metallic ears? Also hopefully first albums have been audience tested in clubs for years and the bands strongest material shows up on the debut quite often.
That being said though, I don't think that older music is necessarily better. Some of the newer stuff, even by veteran bands is of awesome quality. Both technique and technology have improved. And I admit that some of the old music that I love (particularly cheesy pomp AOR from the late 70's/early 80's) would be tough to like if it wasn't for nostalgia. For me it's pure nostalgia, as some of that music is impossible to take seriously otherwise. It's bad in a good way,sometimes more kitsch than quality. Young people laugh at it, while older people laugh with it, because we get the joke.