The Official Metallica - Death Magnetic Thread

detuned wrote:

Just for the record, Master Of Puppets went platinum PRIOR to them ever releasing a video or being played on the radio. That was back when they were a real band and not just a huge corporate marketing machine.

All that the Black Album, Load & Re-Load did was to alienate the majority of the fan base that put them on the map in the first place and replace them with a bunch of young MTV fans who didn't even realize they existed prior to Enter Sandman.

They ceased to be Metallica after Justice.

Man, you and ToB are both so ignorant, it's near comical

Mglaffas81 wrote:

detuned wrote:

Just for the record, Master Of Puppets went platinum PRIOR to them ever releasing a video or being played on the radio. That was back when they were a real band and not just a huge corporate marketing machine.

All that the Black Album, Load & Re-Load did was to alienate the majority of the fan base that put them on the map in the first place and replace them with a bunch of young MTV fans who didn't even realize they existed prior to Enter Sandman.

They ceased to be Metallica after Justice.

Man, you and ToB are both so ignorant, it's near comical

What? Detunded is right on. i think you need to be at least 30 to know what Metallica meant to the headbanger community in the 80s.

DenimAndLeather wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

detuned wrote:

Just for the record, Master Of Puppets went platinum PRIOR to them ever releasing a video or being played on the radio. That was back when they were a real band and not just a huge corporate marketing machine.

All that the Black Album, Load & Re-Load did was to alienate the majority of the fan base that put them on the map in the first place and replace them with a bunch of young MTV fans who didn't even realize they existed prior to Enter Sandman.

They ceased to be Metallica after Justice.

Man, you and ToB are both so ignorant, it's near comical

What? Detunded is right on. i think you need to be at least 30 to know what Metallica meant to the headbanger community in the 80s.

Yup, I'd say he hit the nail on the head too.

I have to agree with detuned, DenimandLeather and Fat Freddy and compound the fact by stating that if you were doing anything other than anticipating the release of the new Metallica album on August 13, 1991, you do not understand the intense disappointment of the arrival of the Black Album.

detuned wrote:

Just for the record, Master Of Puppets went platinum PRIOR to them ever releasing a video or being played on the radio. That was back when they were a real band and not just a huge corporate marketing machine.

All that the Black Album, Load & Re-Load did was to alienate the majority of the fan base that put them on the map in the first place and replace them with a bunch of young MTV fans who didn't even realize they existed prior to Enter Sandman.

They ceased to be Metallica after Justice.

So it's basically the "They were my band" thing again?

I'll let the ignorant comment slide, especially since I was listening to Kill 'Em All the year before he was born....

...anyway. The Tuesday that Justice came out, I took an extra long lunch from work (which I got in trouble for), drove over to the local record store and stood there and waited for the guy to unpack the box that contained the latest Metallica record. I bought both the CD and Cassette (so I could listen to it in the car before I got home). That was what Metallica meant to me, had never heard the album...didn't need to, it was METALLICA! Later I also bought the LP version and both of the singles so I could get the b-sides.

The Black Album: I had seen the video for Enter Sandman on MTV and while I thought the riff was cool (at the time anyway), I wasn't all that thrilled...in fact I was rather frightened. Anyway, I went to the same record store again...but this time I only bought the cassette...figured if it was great I'd go back and pick up the CD later. I never went back and bought that CD...

Next thing I know they're on MTV every 5 minutes, putting out these elaborate expensive music videos, they were the media darlings that summer of 1991...all of a sudden EVERYONE loved Metallica, people that didn't even like metal liked Metallica. I started hearing people talk about how great the new album was but they "heard the old records and they were just too noisy". I was done.

The era was great, but it was most definitely over.

Eyesore wrote:

So it's basically the "They were my band" thing again?

No, they were "OUR" band...the disenfranchised, long-haired, depressed, pissed off metalheads who desperately needed SOMETHING they could believe in during the plastic late 80's.

I understand you fully, detuned - I was just refering to one specific comment that you made - "That was back when they were a real band and not just a huge corporate marketing machine".

Complete and utter bull-crap

Metallica never became a "huge corporate marketing machine" - Sure, their sound was a little more commercial, but the black album SMOKES - Plus, if they really did not care for their fans, and only did it for the money, why put any effort in their albums? - Metallica worked really hard with the black album, and came up with some KILLER material - Heavy riffs, and not to be forgotten, AMAZING solo's.

If Metallica really became a "Huge Corporate Marketing Machine", why did they not just copy the success of the Black Album, and release another one just like that? Because they DO care, and because they want to be creative - They wanted to explore some new area's (okay, I admit, Bob Rock may have had something to do with that) - And hey, the songs on the latter albums were not just some simple, written-in-ten-minutes hit track - There was Metallica persona written ALL OVER them - Especially the lyrics.

Have you read the lyrics to the Load albums? It's some of the most personal lyrics, Hetfield has ever written - No one could release those albums, other than Metallica. Sure, they had all the cliche's of a "Huge Corporate Marketing Machine" - The look, the hits, and I do admit that some of those photo poses did hurt - But they sill remained METALLICA, and they have always LOVED their fans a lot more than most bands today.

I completely understand your feelings, though - I am not just some young newbie who doesn't understand anything, and startet getting into Metallica by hearing "Enter Sandman" on the radio - As a kid, I loved classic rock - Alice Cooper, Bryan Adams - Meat Loaf was my all-time favourite (Still is to this day) - The first Metallica song I EVER heard was "Whiplash" on a compilation tape I found somewhere in the attic - I had no idea who the band was.

I totally understand your "It's MY band" feeling - I have had that with many, especially Lordi. I really do understand your feelings. I am sorry, I expressed myself wrongly.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Metallica never became a "huge corporate marketing machine"

I know you're a fan (doing the "It's my band" thing, by the way), but that's exactly what they became. The dispute is why they became that.

I personally hold nothing against a band that wants to make a living. Unlike many others, I don't think Metallica sold out. They didn't change over night, they evolved. Is it shocking that Metallica said "We'll never do a video!" when videos weren't a big deal, and then changed their mind when videos were a key to success? No f*cking way! But people hold that against them. I think that's stupid.

People get old, people change, people sacrifice. Are all you near 40-year-olds doing exactly what you intended to do with your life? I know a few here wanted to write, but then had kids, got married, and guess what? Things changed! Too many of you hold 40-something-year-old men to comments they made in their early 20s. It's asinine, because you would never want someone to do the same to you.

Metallica evolved. I didn't mind because I have broad tastes. Others don't. They want Metallica playing fast, heavy metal. That's okay. Maflglaffl90210 is doing no different than the 40-year-olds are doing. If Metallica released a punk album, he'd complain just like those that complained about the black album.

The thing is neither side is right nor wrong. But when do you stop trying to discredit a band? It's been nearly 20 years. There must be something more relevant to complain about. Metallica are never going back to their early stuff. They might pull a few moments from that time, but your Metallica is not the Metallica. They haven't been for almost 20 years. Why still complain?

Mglaffas81,
Hey man, no worries at all. I respect your opinion as well, even though in this case I don't happen to agree with it. But you obviously are passionate about the music and that's all that really matters. People having varied tastes in music is one of the things that makes discussion boards like this so enjoyable to be a part of.

Cheers,
Shawn (detuned)

Eyesore wrote:

but your Metallica is not the Metallica. They haven't been for almost 20 years. Why still complain?

You may think this is funny, but isn't that like a form of mourning? "Your grandma has been dead for 20 years, deal with it".

Sure Metallica as a thrash band isn't as important as your Grandma, but can't someone miss the band like they do Gramma?

I miss the band... and I miss both my Grammas.

spectrefate wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

but your Metallica is not the Metallica. They haven't been for almost 20 years. Why still complain?

You may think this is funny, but isn't that like a form of mourning? "Your grandma has been dead for 20 years, deal with it".

Sure Metallica as a thrash band isn't as important as your Grandma, but can't someone miss the band like they do Gramma?

It's cool to lament a loss, but when it comes to bands, people just don't put things into perspective. Maybe it's just me, but I can't grasp the concept of complaining about things that'll never change. You don't think I'd love Def Leppard to knock out another killer hard rock album? I sure as hell do! And I know they won't. So I try to enjoy what they do now, like the latest album, or I completely ignore the turds, like X, and enjoy what I like.

I hate St. Anger. I enjoy every other Metallica release. I may occasionally give an opinion on St. Anger, saying it's terrible or whatever, but I don't complain about it. It's not even on my radar.

But hey, some people are passionate about different things. I'd be so depressed if I complained about everything I didn't like because I dislike a lot of things! Haha.

This is actually the first "conversation" I've had about Metallica in years, they've been off my radar for a long time. But I suppose sometimes old feelings get stirred up and there you go.

I think Bob Rock moved the "evolution" of the band a little too far a little too quickly...and he also moved it in the wrong direction. The first sin committed by Rock was forcing them to change the way the rhythm section functioned...I don't think it ever really worked and I think in the long run it ruined the way Lars played drums.

But, again, that's just my personal opinion.

As for the whole "video" thing, I don't really care anymore...but there were interviews during the Master of Puppets era where they talked about being PROUD of the fact that they didn't do videos....then 2 years later....they were doing videos. Cliff not being around I'm sure was the main contributor to that.

detuned wrote:

Cliff not being around I'm sure was the main contributor to that.

That's another thing that irritates me. The whole "What if Cliff" crowd. I said it before, Cliff may have quit the band to start a country band for all anyone knows. In fact, he was easily the one with the broadest tastes in the band, so it is more likely that (if he had any influence over Lars and James) he would have made them change far more than they did. But even that is just gross speculation.

No one knows what Cliff's influence would have been.

wow look Rick Rubin really is there. I think he just came in to move a chair or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1cChz07D1k

Eyesore wrote:

detuned wrote:

Cliff not being around I'm sure was the main contributor to that.

That's another thing that irritates me. The whole "What if Cliff" crowd. I said it before, Cliff may have quit the band to start a country band for all anyone knows. In fact, he was easily the one with the broadest tastes in the band, so it is more likely that (if he had any influence over Lars and James) he would have made them change far more than they did. But even that is just gross speculation.

No one knows what Cliff's influence would have been.

What if Lars wasn't an ego-maniacal, money grubbing, assh*le? That's another question we don't know the answer to.

But here's a FACT. Cliff was the best musician in the band (the band has all admitted this over the years), he helped bring everything together. Some of his writing and arrangements were still used on the Justice album.

And I don't want to hear the Kirk Hammett argument, he knows how to solo in about 3 scales...and someone needs to ban him from ever using a wah pedal again, he's never been any good at it anyway.

Okay, enough...this topic is making me cranky.

detuned wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

detuned wrote:

Cliff not being around I'm sure was the main contributor to that.

That's another thing that irritates me. The whole "What if Cliff" crowd. I said it before, Cliff may have quit the band to start a country band for all anyone knows. In fact, he was easily the one with the broadest tastes in the band, so it is more likely that (if he had any influence over Lars and James) he would have made them change far more than they did. But even that is just gross speculation.

No one knows what Cliff's influence would have been.

What if Lars wasn't an ego-maniacal, money grubbing, assh*le? That's another question we don't know the answer to.

But here's a FACT. Cliff was the best musician in the band (the band has all admitted this over the years), he helped bring everything together. Some of his writing and arrangements were still used on the Justice album.

And I don't want to hear the Kirk Hammett argument, he knows how to solo in about 3 scales...and someone needs to ban him from ever using a wah pedal again, he's never been any good at it anyway.

Okay, enough...this topic is making me cranky.

Cliff might have been the best musician, but skill means nothing if you can't write a song. Who wrote the songs?

And you're right, what if Lars wasn't the way he is? WHO KNOWS! That's the point. Instead of people just saying, "I don't like anything after Justice," they try to justify that opinion with all kinds of crazy talk. And yes, I think it's crazy talk. Not saying those people are crazy, but it comes off a bit wacky. To speculate on the unknown is one thing, but to present it as fact is ludicrous.

Anyway, you're new here, so please don't take offense to anything I say. Some new folk tend to misread me. I'm not being a dick. It's all just my opinion, neither right nor wrong.

detuned wrote:

someone needs to ban him from ever using a wah pedal again.

Glad someone else sees it my way too.

detuned wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

detuned wrote:

Cliff not being around I'm sure was the main contributor to that.

That's another thing that irritates me. The whole "What if Cliff" crowd. I said it before, Cliff may have quit the band to start a country band for all anyone knows. In fact, he was easily the one with the broadest tastes in the band, so it is more likely that (if he had any influence over Lars and James) he would have made them change far more than they did. But even that is just gross speculation.

No one knows what Cliff's influence would have been.

And I don't want to hear the Kirk Hammett argument, he knows how to solo in about 3 scales...and someone needs to ban him from ever using a wah pedal again, he's never been any good at it anyway.

Okay, enough...this topic is making me cranky.

Hogwash

First of all, Kirk Hammet was (and IS) a very skilled guitarist - He could shred with the best of 'em in the eighties especially. And guitar-work is nowhere near dependant on skill - The thing with Hammet is, that he could write really fast shredding solo's, put still put a lot of emotion and feel into it - Not many guitarists can do that - He wrote some amazing solo's, especially on the Black Album - Plus, he barely used the wah before the Black Album - And he uses it effectively - The whole thing with him using the wah to cover up mistakes is just pure speculation - Kirk uses the wah, because he likes it - And he couldn't care less about people like you. You may be able to play a billion notes per second, but that is nothing, if you have no composing abilities.

Anyway, let's not get all cought up - You have your opinon, and I have my own

I'm weird in that I can agree with both sides here. I was there from when Ride The Lightning came out. I think I'd already heard Kill' 'em All too, but Ride was my first remembered Metallica album. So i lived the era, and still think Master is one of the best albums ever made.

I also remember listening to the Black album for the first time thinking they had totally sold out, but at the same time I loved the fact that more people now seemed to be into them. All my other pals had been fans for years, but suddenly my entire class were now interested in one of my bands!! It was cool!

One of the funniest incidents from that era was overhearing a conversation between 2 youngsters in a record store, holding a Ride The Lightning LP in their hands saying: Did they already release a new album?!!

Anyway, Metallica was the biggest band on the planet back then, and the tour that followed allowed me to see them live for the very first time. And after I while I started to love most of the material on the Black Album.

When Load was soon to be released I also remember buying the Until It Sleeps single first. I thought it sucked, and once more thought they had jumped on some trend. In hindsight I couldnæe be more wrong. Load and Reload sounds like no other band, but they do sound like Metallica! As Mgallaf3473 said, no other band could have released this!

Thus I agree with both sides. They are no longer the same band that released Master, but it sure still is Metallica.

Quote :

Cliff might have been the best musician, but skill means nothing if you can't write a song. Who wrote the songs?

You show your ignorance, my friend.


Cliff Burton’s writing credits:


Fight Fire with Fire
Ride the Lightning
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Fade to Black
Creeping Death
The Call of Ktulu
Master of Puppets
Orion
Damage Inc.
To Live is to Die
(Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfms8L6lK5A Video from Ozzfest lastnight where they played one of the new songs called Cyanide (probably spelled that wrong) Not too much singing and the sound quality is a little eh but you can still hear it and its actually pretty good.

This video is a little longer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5rFjCR9NeI

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfms8L6lK5A Video from Ozzfest lastnight where they played one of the new songs called Cyanide (probably spelled that wrong) Not too much singing and the sound quality is a little eh but you can still hear it and its actually pretty good.

This video is a little longer [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5rFjCR9NeI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5rFjCR9NeI[/quote[/url]]

thats actually quite good. reminds me of a more commerical and justice for all

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfms8L6lK5A Video from Ozzfest lastnight where they played one of the new songs called Cyanide (probably spelled that wrong) Not too much singing and the sound quality is a little eh but you can still hear it and its actually pretty good.

This video is a little longer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5rFjCR9NeI

ahhhh, yes - This is the song you can hear a bit of in the trailer - I really like that "Suicide, I've already died" part - It sounds so cool

One thing Metallica have always been talented at, is writing catchy, awesome HOOKS - That's why they are so easy to get into