Is Jon Oliva a better songwriter than he was 15 years ago?

This may be a stupid question because it's all opinion, but what do you think of my question? After listening to Global Warning (thanks Locky!, I finally bought it today), this is the feeling I get. He is way more diverse, and he was diverse on the last few 'Tage albums with Criss.

His JOP albums get better each time, when most bands get suckier each time, imo. The older he gets, the more he experiments with different things. I wonder what it would be like if Cruiss was still around, even though with Jon's wife finding those tapes, it's like he still is.

I was thinking the same thing this weekend when I was listening to Global Warning. There is so much variety on that album. It's great.

He is definetely a better songwriter now. Are the songs better? That's a personal taste thing. I find the new stuff more enjoyable only because I haven't been listening to it for 10 or 15 years.

Not from what I've heard.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Not from what I've heard.

You should be flogged.

Both yes and no. He can still write some killer songs, that's for sure. But so much of the "new" material isn't really new. I recently got a bootleg of the Gutter Ballet demos, and many of the ideas, and even songs, heard on Global Warning is from that demo.

Quote :

I recently got a bootleg of the Gutter Ballet demos,

I need to be extra nice to you for a while.

SoldierUnderCommand wrote:

Quote :

I recently got a bootleg of the Gutter Ballet demos,

I need to be extra nice to you for a while.

I'm sure you can if you set your mind to it

Can I be your best friend, Kmorg? I'll wax your feet and everything.















My opinion is he is a much better songwriter now, but as Kmorg said,
there is a certain amount of rehashing, so Jon may have plateaued to
some extent. That's not to say he can't break through it, but a lot of
the same ideas are resurfacing.

Of course, it's not like that's a new thing for Savatage, just listen to the songs Sirens and The Dungeons Are Calling back to back.

He's not a better writer, he's better at experimenting though. Nothing will ever beat the 1st few Savatage albums he did! He can try, but it won't work. That's not taking anything away from what he is doing now. He is still kicking ass and doing what he does best. Experimenting is not bad, but it don't mean he's a better writer of what he's doing because of it.

Not better, but somewhat different in a good way. He's very consistent at writing quality stuff.

Quote :

Nothing will ever beat the 1st few Savatage albums he did! He can try, but it won't work

I'm not sying the songs are actually better, since imo, that's impossible without Criss. Nothing will ever top EOT for me. Just that on his own, his songwriting seems to have improved, and obviously he's more diverse.

Let me get my copy of GW and listen to it, then I will come back with an opinion.

defenetely yes. His music is vey mature and diverse. It sounds very 70'sish hard rock/heavy metal with a lot of queen influence into it. I love it

If I may interject here...There is a definate intention to write and record
what is true in his heart. Old Sava style material as well as his vast old-school
influences play a very big part in all JOP material. We will be the first to admit
that there is little "modern" incredients in our material, but we are not afraid
of running away from the iconic music and vibe created by the masters. The Oliva
brothers continuing to write music together is freaky and exciting.

Jon doesn't really listen to new music, and I suspect that he hasn't for a very
long time. He has said on many occassions that there is a "soul" missing from
from most of today's music. He lives in the rich past of when musicians, including
his brother Criss, were dedicated to creating music that would stand the test of time and not dismissed as the flavor of the day.

There are surely many parts of GLOBAL WARNING that were written with long forgotten riffs and musical idea's of the past that really grabbed hold and were forged into what we hoped would be good songs....whether they have been totally concieved now or with some help from sessions long ago is irrelevant.

But Oliva has the ability to push himself and the rest of us in JOP to embrace great
song structure, melody and execution. His theory is " Let's just create a good song no matter what anyone else thinks...if we do our jobs and present it with conviction and emotion, then how can we go wrong". I am personally honored to be working with the genious that is Jon Oliva!

Cheers!

Kongs sighting.

Lurideath wrote:

He's not a better writer, he's better at experimenting though. Nothing will ever beat the 1st few Savatage albums he did! He can try, but it won't work. That's not taking anything away from what he is doing now. He is still kicking ass and doing what he does best. Experimenting is not bad, but it don't mean he's a better writer of what he's doing because of it.

I agree with you

Kong, how I envy you being able to work with one of the greatest metal masterminds ever. More than ever I can't wait to get my copy of GW but it seems to be on back order for now. Jon is responsible for some of the most enjoyable music in my library and I'm sure the new one will not dissapoint.

Quote :

Nothing will ever beat the 1st few Savatage albums he did!

Except the last few with Criss.

Envy is a logical word when it comes to working with true genious.
It's often staggering to be sitting at the pro-tools rig recording
song, after song, after song....they just pour out of Oliva like the rest
of us empty our bladders of good beer!....It's just crazy.

I hope the ride never stops as we have all finally stumbled upon on our way
of working together and crafting his brilliant idea's. I suspect more great
music is just around the corner....Oh, and the writing for JOP #4 has indeed begun.

Cheers to all!.......\m/

Kong wrote:

Envy is a logical word when it comes to working with true genious.
It's often staggering to be sitting at the pro-tools rig recording
song, after song, after song....they just pour out of Oliva like the rest
of us empty our bladders of good beer!....It's just crazy.

I hope the ride never stops as we have all finally stumbled upon on our way
of working together and crafting his brilliant idea's. I suspect more great
music is just around the corner....Oh, and the writing for JOP #4 has indeed begun.

Cheers to all!.......\m/

Great thoughts. Killer album, btw. I'm down here in near Tampa and I can't wait to see you guys live in September!

emptytomb1 wrote:

Not better, but somewhat different in a good way. He's very consistent at writing quality stuff.

Well put, and totally agreed...

spectrefate wrote:

Kong wrote:

Envy is a logical word when it comes to working with true genious.
It's often staggering to be sitting at the pro-tools rig recording
song, after song, after song....they just pour out of Oliva like the rest
of us empty our bladders of good beer!....It's just crazy.

I hope the ride never stops as we have all finally stumbled upon on our way
of working together and crafting his brilliant idea's. I suspect more great
music is just around the corner....Oh, and the writing for JOP #4 has indeed begun.

Cheers to all!.......\m/

Great thoughts. Killer album, btw. I'm down here in near Tampa and I can't wait to see you guys live in September!

If I'm still in the state at that time, I will be there as well.

I hope that the next album, goes all the way in your face heavy metal, like DOCTOR BUTCHER and early savatage, trying to sound as old school as it could. That would be a great follow up, and it would be interesting, since every JOP album would have something different to offer to the fans

Olafsto wrote:

emptytomb1 wrote:

Not better, but somewhat different in a good way. He's very consistent at writing quality stuff.

Well put, and totally agreed...

Listening to GW right now and that is a great assessment. This album is going to be one of my favorites this year.

Olaf hit the nail on the head, and glad to hear you finally got it, DB.