The 4 in vengeance rising

Has anyone else noticed the 4 that is in the "V" in vengeance in the vengeance rising logo? does anyone know what it means or am I just tripping? :defleppard:

I can see it. It was prophecy as they have 4 albums and then done.

or 4 original members went on to form Die Happy or Once Dead

Mind boggling eh?

Absolutely! Such a metal Savant! "82, 82, 82"

There's probably a VR cult somewhere based on the #4 and Roger's ramblings of late......

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Roger is far from a loser. Misled maybe, but not a loser. What he has done in the past for kids like me is monumental. He has had a huge impact on my life. Yes, I agree with the fish in a barrel comment of Trog's.

It always reminded me of a partial pentagram.

spectrefate wrote:

Roger is far from a loser.

Would "Froot Loop" be a better term?

Rexorcist wrote:

It always reminded me of a partial pentagram.

That's what I always thought too.

Roger is a deeply disturbed guy who seems to be on a perpetual hair-trigger. I certainly wouldn't mess with him.

TrogDawn wrote:

Stender wrote:

Well now, if that isn't shooting fish in a barrel, I don't know what is.

You got me wrong, I take that back, definately misled. I love roger and hope he comes around in the end as he contributed to my walk with christ years after vengeance went defunct and after he flippped his lid.

But, seriously any person that trys to make death threats on Steve Rowe is a loser in my book no matter what that person has done in their life previosly. Like I said we can only hope he turns around.

Stender wrote:

You got me wrong, I take that back, definately misled. I love roger and hope he comes around in the end as he contributed to my walk with christ years after vengeance went defunct and after he flippped his lid.

But, seriously any person that trys to make death threats on Steve Rowe is a loser in my book no matter what that person has done in their life previosly. Like I said we can only hope he turns around.

The reason for my sarcastic comment above is basically just to shine light on the fact that it's far too easy for christians to jump on a bashing bandwagon just because we feel safe and justified in our own little sheltered world and believe we know how everything should "be" and how things should "look". IMO, I believe it only adds to the problem and will only succeed in pushing a person even further away from that which "we" believe he should be a part of. Unless he can be accepted right where he's at without any judgment or expectations, there will never be any positive change.

I understand that it's hard to watch one of your heroes go against everything that you believe in, especially when he encouraged you so much at first. But that's just life, and your heroes will probably always let you down at some point, unfortunately.

Personally, I believe Roger suffers from mental health issues that may be exacerbated by drug abuse - which is just my own theory based on limited info about him and my own personal experience and education. But the overall feel of his actions and expressions just screams mental illness to me. If this is the case, don't try to make sense of anything he has done or will do, because it will only frustrate you. The best bet is to just leave him be and stop making snide comments, because when it comes down to it, none of us know dick about what the man has had to deal with in his own life that has caused him to make the choices he has made or do the things he has done.

TrogDawn wrote:

The reason for my sarcastic comment above is basically just to shine light on the fact that it's far too easy for christians to jump on a bashing bandwagon just because we feel safe and justified in our own little sheltered world and believe we know how everything should "be" and how things should "look". IMO, I believe it only adds to the problem and will only succeed in pushing a person even further away from that which "we" believe he should be a part of. Unless he can be accepted right where he's at without any judgment or expectations, there will never be any positive change.

Personally, I believe Roger suffers from mental health issues that may be exacerbated by drug abuse - which is just my own theory based on limited info about him and my own personal experience and education. But the overall feel of his actions and expressions just screams mental illness to me. If this is the case, don't try to make sense of anything he has done or will do, because it will only frustrate you. The best bet is to just leave him be and stop making snide comments, because when it comes down to it, none of us know dick about what the man has had to deal with in his own life that has caused him to make the choices he has made or do the things he has done.

Very well said.




Smurf Obama, I'm voting Trog!

Good Post,Trog

TrogDawn wrote:

But the overall feel of his actions and expressions just screams mental illness to me.

HMMM....this is sounding very familiar to me?

I think Roger was quite the madman back in the day, some call it being "on fire" for the Lord, he looked more obsessed at times, even one of his pastors said you could do nothing to slow him down, he hit the wall pretty hard!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXYw8O24AAM

I've always wondered about that partial pentagram too.

TrogDawn wrote:

I understand that it's hard to watch one of your heroes go against everything that you believe in, especially when he encouraged you so much at first. But that's just life, and your heroes will probably always let you down at some point, unfortunately.

Personally, I believe Roger suffers from mental health issues that may be exacerbated by drug abuse - which is just my own theory based on limited info about him and my own personal experience and education. But the overall feel of his actions and expressions just screams mental illness to me. If this is the case, don't try to make sense of anything he has done or will do, because it will only frustrate you. The best bet is to just leave him be and stop making snide comments, because when it comes down to it, none of us know dick about what the man has had to deal with in his own life that has caused him to make the choices he has made or do the things he has done.

I've heard *of* this band, but only very casually as my thrash interests don't really go much outside of Megadeth, Metallica, and Anthrax (and I wasn't of age to have first-hand knowledge of the scene during the 80s anyway). I know absolutely jack about Christian thrash, but man... this is a sad tale to see.

Were there ever any signs of what was going through Roger's mind or did he just one day explode? It seems like the band's financial problems maybe drove him over the edge.

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I know that V.R. was incredibly influential in the CCM Metal world but I never quite understood what all the whoop-de-doo was about'em personally. I preferred Deliverance as far as CCM Thrash went. I guess cuz I was never a "harsh vocals" kinda guy, they never did much for me.

(Ducks to avoid the flaming arrows and thrown garbage that will now be sent my way)

Quote :

all the whoop-de-doo

Bride was my "gateway" into true and heavy metal but Vengeance Rising was my "gateway" into extreme music, which I consider Human Sacrifice to be. It may be Thrash, but it's extreme (to me).

SO, although I recognize the flaws of HS it will always be my "first".

However, In My Opinion Once Dead and Released Upon The Earth (criminally underrated) ARE great Thrash, and with Released, Death(ish) metal. I think Roger Martinez has a much better Death metal voice than a Thrash voice. He's really just gargling along on HS.

That being said, I truly do enjoy those songs. I think there's enough to "whoop" about!