Let's talk about guns

Vexer6 wrote:

That dosen't mean there should be zero restrictions, the Parkland shooter was able to buy a gun because there was no law restricting people under 21 from buying them.

 

I respectively disagree regarding age, if you can be sent off to war at 18 than you should be able to purchase a firearm under the stipulations of local, state, or federal laws. Do "normal" people buy a car when they don't know how to drive ? Usually, not. So it comes back to the fact if somebody really wants to do something...a law really isn't going to stop them.

Vexer6 wrote:

Also as someone from Illinois i'm sick to death of people using Chicago as an excuse for why gun laws don't work, here's the thing-Chicago gets a lot of gun deaths because the states surrounding Illinois have extremely weak gun laws that make it easy for them to get trafficked in.

That may be part of the equation, but it is pretty naïve on your part to point the finger elsewhere when the real problem is in Chicago itself. I can get a firearm fairly easy where I live and we don't have the murder rate Chicago does. Again your blaming a social issue on an inanimate object.

James B. wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

That dosen't mean there should be zero restrictions, the Parkland shooter was able to buy a gun because there was no law restricting people under 21 from buying them.

 

I respectively disagree regarding age, if you can be sent off to war at 18 than you should be able to purchase a firearm under the stipulations of local, state, or federal laws.  Do "normal" people buy a car when they don't know how to drive ?   Usually, not.  So it comes back to the fact if somebody really wants to do something...a law really isn't going to stop them.

Vexer6 wrote:

Also as someone from Illinois i'm sick to death of people using Chicago as an excuse for why gun laws don't work, here's the thing-Chicago gets a lot of gun deaths because the states surrounding Illinois have extremely weak gun laws that make it easy for them to get trafficked in.

That may be part of the equation, but it is pretty naïve on your part to point the finger elsewhere when the real problem is in Chicago itself.  I can get a firearm fairly easy where I live and we don't have the murder rate Chicago does. Again your blaming a social issue on an inanimate object.    

No Chicago is not the problem, you don't live here, so you're the one who is "naive", not me.

It's not "blaming a social issue on an inanimate object", that's a bunch of BS:http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-met-gun-control-chicago-dahleen-glanton-20171003-story.html

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20151008/NEWS02/151009827/the-problem-with-using-chicago-to-make-the-case-against-gun-control

So, people buy their guns in other states and decide to go to Chicago to murder people? Is that what you're saying? All I know is places that have strict gun laws also have high crime rates and the opposite is also true. High gun ownership= lower crime. Just look at Switzerland. They require every citizen to own a gun and also have very little crime.

Thrasher73 wrote:

So, people buy their guns in other states and decide to go to Chicago to murder people? Is that what you're saying? All I know is places that have strict gun laws also have high crime rates and the opposite is also true. High gun ownership= lower crime. Just look at Switzerland. They require every citizen to own a gun and also have very little crime.

Yes that's exactly what i'm saying, and Switzerland does not have guns literally baked into their damn constitution and they don't have the insane gun culture we do, every weapon issued there is properly tracked:https://blog.uwgb.edu/alltherage/debunking-pro-gun-arguments-but-what-about-switzerland/

Vexer6 wrote:

James B. wrote:

What is mind boggling is there are people who actually believe that a ban on guns via legislation will  make them magically disappear forever off the face of the earth.   Look at all the other things that are illegal and are still around & highly profitable.  Most people are law abiding for the most part.  Yet if somebody really wants to get access to something, do you honestly believe any law is going to stop them from obtaining it ?   (IMHO)The gun isn't as much of the problem as society in general.  There are countless forms of media out there that glorify violence, which can desensitize an individual to the consequences, the impact on those victimized (directly/indirectly), and blind to other options that might lead to making a different choice.  "My life sucks and they will remember me now" has nothing to do with a gun, the gun is just a means to an end. The real problem is what makes somebody think that way to begin with. That particular thought process is becoming more and more prevalent in modern society.  Nobody wants to point a finger at themselves, be it the parents, the family, the educators, the community, the medical professionals, the government, law enforcement, the individual, and the list goes on.

That dosen't mean there should be zero restrictions, the Parkland shooter was able to buy a gun because there was no law restricting people under 21 from buying them.  Also as someone from Illinois i'm sick to death of people using Chicago as an excuse for why gun laws don't work, here's the thing-Chicago gets a lot of gun deaths because the states surrounding Illinois have extremely weak gun laws that make it easy for them to get trafficked in.

Also Ted Nugent can kiss my ass, i've had a problem with his idiotic statements for a long time, but this is a new low for him:https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/03/30/nra-board-member-ted-nugent-calls-parkland-students-poor-pathetic-liars-no-soul/219803

Jessie Hughes can burn in hell too.

Anyone who thinks we don't have enough guns is insane IMO. After all other developed countries don't have nearly as many guns as we do and have a much lower murder rate, so i'm having a tough time understanding people who believe we need more of the damn things even though we already have more guns then people.

Personally I support the Parkland students 100%, i'm sick of the NRA's death grip on politicians and preventing research into gun violence, anyone who attacks the students is human garbage as far as i'm concerned.  The sooner the NRA gets the hell out of politics the better, ironically they got into politics because they were paranoid over black people owning guns.

To be clear I don't think all NRA members are bad people, but the people in charge of the NRA and on their board are all scumbags who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, especially Dana Loesch(stupid Catch U Next Tuesday) and Wayne La Pierre(no Wayne, violent video games were not responsible for Sandy Hook you dickhead).

So because he was under 21, he should not be allowed to buy a gun? Then all those men and women in our military should not be allowed to join the military either. And if an 18 year old man or woman can vote, drive a vehicle, and defend our nation, they should also be allowed to own a firearm if they want one. What does age have to do with this? Why do your types cling onto these ignorant rants created by the media? Up until this last shooting, not once was it mentioned that they should raise the age to 21 in order to buy a firearm. Now all of a sudden you people cling to this one thing and try to make it gospel.

Your whole Chicago argument isn't really making much sense either. LA, New York, DC, Detroit, all these places are strict on guns, and have extreme violent crime rates. I guess they all border lacking gun restricted states and cities so that's the whole reason why huh? Nothing to do with the fact that criminal really don't have to think twice about being criminal because the main populace around them are unarmed, and therefore they have nothing to fear.

And your sick of the NRA's deathgrip on politicians? You should be thanking them from the bottom of your heart for what they have done for this country. I could go on, but I have a feeling it will end up getting out of hand, and it's not like whatever I say will change your mind, so I'll just say have a nice night.

If we don't have guns, then how are we supposed to kill each other? With knives?! That's so brutish.

Vexer6 wrote:

No Chicago is not the problem, you don't live here, so you're the one who is "naive", not me.

So the people in Chicago go cross state line to buy guns because there isn't a need to have and use them ???? Put your political rhetoric aside and look at it from a common sense approach. Other cities in the US have stricter gun laws and lower crime rates. Which means, unlike Chicago there are jobs and hope for a better life. Again that ties into it being a social issue. Chicago's problem. plain and simple.

Vexer6 wrote:

It's not "blaming a social issue on an inanimate object", that's a bunch of BS

The violent crime in Chicago is a product of there socio-economic problems . The statistics and facts support that, so how is it B/S ?

So in your ideal Utopia, say we had the technology to make all guns disappear off planet Earth. The socio-economic problems in Chicago would still exist. The need to rob, steal, kill, and sell drugs to survive would not go away with the guns. The violence would be there even without the guns. So tell me again how blaming a social issue on an inanimate object is B/S again ?

Maybe the feds should stay out of the gun control laws and let the states make their own gun laws.  Its called states rights and I believe if we allowed the states to have complete control over issues like gun control, drug laws, education, etc. our society would radically change. The bottom line is if you don't like the laws and ideas in one state move to a state where you do like the laws and lifestyle. I believe that was the original idea of the original US government forefathers...

Quote :

The violent crime in Chicago is a product of there socio-economic problems .

This may be but Chicago ..like every other city in America...has a certain part of the population that doesn't want to change. Some people are just mean criminal minded people who would rather commit crime than work and create a better life for themselves.. No amount of laws will stop these criminals...I'm sure you would agree.

Quote :

Vexer6 wrote: That doesn't mean there should be zero restrictions, the Parkland shooter was able to buy a gun because there was no law restricting people under 21 from buying them.

So you think this guy wouldn't have been able to get a gun if the law in his state would have said he had to be 21 to legally get a gun? That is seriously foolishness. You don't think he couldn't have bought one from someone on the street or stolen a gun or maybe had a friend give him one... You actually think he would have just given up when the store told him no and went home and this shooting would have never happened?

Quote :

Also Ted Nugent can kiss my ass, i've had a problem with his idiotic statements for a long time, but this is a new low for him:https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/03/30/nra-board-member-ted-nugent-calls-parkland-students-poor-pathetic-liars-no-soul/219803

To each his own I guess.. I support Ted Nugent's statement and to be honest those that don't and those calling for more gun control can kiss my ass

brokentulsa wrote:

Maybe the feds should stay out of the gun control laws and let the states make their own gun laws.  Its called states rights and I believe if we allowed the states to have complete control over issues like gun control, drug laws, education, etc. our society would radically change. The bottom line is if you don't like the laws and ideas in one state move to a state where you do like the laws and lifestyle. I believe that was the original idea of the original US government forefathers...

Quote :

The violent crime in Chicago is a product of there socio-economic problems .

This may be but Chicago ..like every other city in America...has a certain part of the population that doesn't want to change. Some people are just mean criminal minded people who would rather commit crime than work and create a better life for themselves.. No amount of laws will stop these criminals...I'm sure you would agree.

Pretty sure the states can make their own set of laws, but the federal government supersedes anything the states do if and when they want to. I'm no expert on it, and am only going off of what I hear about the legal marijuana states. From my understanding, the feds can come in and bust all these legal pot stores here in Washington state any time they want. I kind of like the idea of each state doing it's own thing, but in the long run, we would no longer be the UNITED states of America, and just be a cluster of 50 small countries.

The NRA does not have a "deathgrip" on politicians...that's complete hysterical nonsense. The NRA's PAC is a completely separate entity from the NRA itself...membership fees do not go to political donations. Over the last 20 years the NRA spent about $220 million politically....compared to the billions that the AFL-CIO and other large unions pour into a single years election cycle for Democrats, yet I don't see anyone on TV protesting that the Dems are "owned" by the unions.

bassman wrote:

The NRA does not have a "deathgrip" on politicians...that's complete hysterical nonsense. The NRA's PAC is a completely separate entity from the NRA itself...membership fees do not go to political donations. Over the last 20 years the NRA spent about $220 million politically....compared to the billions that the AFL-CIO and other large unions pour into a single years election cycle for Democrats, yet I don't see anyone on TV protesting that the Dems are "owned" by the unions.  

No it's not "hysterial nonsense" fool, the stupid Dickey Amendment is the reason there's been no research on gun violence for over two decades, your post is the only thing that is "Hysterical nonsense" here:https://rantt.com/how-the-nra-took-american-politics-hostage-8cfc6f82e5e6

brokentulsa wrote:

Quote :

Vexer6 wrote: That doesn't mean there should be zero restrictions, the Parkland shooter was able to buy a gun because there was no law restricting people under 21 from buying them.

So you think this guy wouldn't have been able to get a gun if the law in his state would have said he had to be 21 to legally get a gun? That is seriously foolishness. You don't think he couldn't have bought one from someone on the street or stolen a gun or maybe had a friend give him one... You actually think he would have just given up when the store told him no and went home and this shooting would have never happened?

Quote :

Also Ted Nugent can kiss my ass, i've had a problem with his idiotic statements for a long time, but this is a new low for him:https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/03/30/nra-board-member-ted-nugent-calls-parkland-students-poor-pathetic-liars-no-soul/219803

To each his own I guess.. I support Ted Nugent's statement and to be honest those that don't and those calling for more gun control can kiss my ass

So you support a pedophile who openly attacks victims of gun violence? You're clearly a horrible person. Good to know that I shouldn't take anything you say seriously.

brokentulsa wrote:

Maybe the feds should stay out of the gun control laws and let the states make their own gun laws.  Its called states rights and I believe if we allowed the states to have complete control over issues like gun control, drug laws, education, etc. our society would radically change. The bottom line is if you don't like the laws and ideas in one state move to a state where you do like the laws and lifestyle. I believe that was the original idea of the original US government forefathers...

Quote :

The violent crime in Chicago is a product of there socio-economic problems .

This may be but Chicago ..like every other city in America...has a certain part of the population that doesn't want to change. Some people are just mean criminal minded people who would rather commit crime than work and create a better life for themselves.. No amount of laws will stop these criminals...I'm sure you would agree.

That's a pathetic excuse for not having any restrictions at all.

James B. wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

No Chicago is not the problem, you don't live here, so you're the one who is "naive", not me.

So the people in Chicago go cross state line to buy guns because there isn't a need to have and use them ????  Put your political rhetoric aside and look at it from a common sense approach.  Other cities in the US have stricter gun laws and lower crime rates. Which means, unlike Chicago there are jobs and hope for a better life.  Again that ties into it being a social issue. Chicago's problem. plain and simple.

Vexer6 wrote:

It's not "blaming a social issue on an inanimate object", that's a bunch of BS

The violent crime in Chicago is a product of there socio-economic problems . The statistics and facts support that, so how is it B/S ?  

So in your ideal Utopia, say we had the technology to make all guns disappear off planet Earth.  The socio-economic problems in Chicago would still exist.  The need to rob, steal, kill, and sell drugs to survive would not go away with the guns.  The violence would be there even without the guns.  So tell me again how blaming a social issue on an inanimate object is B/S again ?

Why don't you put YOUR "political rhetoric" aside dumbass?

You are talking nonsense and blinded by those idiots at the NRA.

It is BS you moron, you don't live here, so quit acting like you know everything:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/nov/07/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-repeats-chicago-has-strongest-gun-la/

http://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/oct/03/sarah-huckabee-sanders/chicago-toughest-gun-control-claim-shot-full-holes/

Annnnndddd....Another thread "shot" to hell.

Like it wasn't already headed there before, i'm disturbed at the amount of people that think more guns are the answer to everything.

Vexer6 wrote:

Like it wasn't already headed there before, i'm disturbed at the amount of people that think more guns are the answer to everything.

Based on your namecalling it sounds like you're more disturbed not everyone thinks you're right.

We don't have enough guns. Why ban them? Do we ban knives when there are stabbings? Do we ban rocks? Cars? Attack helicopters? etc. You get what I mean. No matter what, criminals will ALWAYS be one step ahead of the law and take advantage of their surroundings.

Vexer6 wrote:

James B. wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

No Chicago is not the problem, you don't live here, so you're the one who is "naive", not me.

So the people in Chicago go cross state line to buy guns because there isn't a need to have and use them ????  Put your political rhetoric aside and look at it from a common sense approach.  Other cities in the US have stricter gun laws and lower crime rates. Which means, unlike Chicago there are jobs and hope for a better life.  Again that ties into it being a social issue. Chicago's problem. plain and simple.

Vexer6 wrote:

It's not "blaming a social issue on an inanimate object", that's a bunch of BS

The violent crime in Chicago is a product of there socio-economic problems . The statistics and facts support that, so how is it B/S ?  

So in your ideal Utopia, say we had the technology to make all guns disappear off planet Earth.  The socio-economic problems in Chicago would still exist.  The need to rob, steal, kill, and sell drugs to survive would not go away with the guns.  The violence would be there even without the guns.  So tell me again how blaming a social issue on an inanimate object is B/S again ?

Why don't you put YOUR "political rhetoric" aside dumbass?

You are talking nonsense and blinded by those idiots at the NRA.

It is BS you moron, you don't live here, so quit acting like you know everything:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/nov/07/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-repeats-chicago-has-strongest-gun-la/

http://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/oct/03/sarah-huckabee-sanders/chicago-toughest-gun-control-claim-shot-full-holes/

You know, this response type is not the best way to win anyone on your side of the debate, and I am not even conservative.

zianide wrote:

We don't have enough guns. Why ban them? Do we ban knives when there are stabbings? Do we ban rocks? Cars? Attack helicopters? etc. You get what I mean. No matter what, criminals will ALWAYS be one step ahead of the law and take advantage of their surroundings.

Vexer6 wrote:

James B. wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

No Chicago is not the problem, you don't live here, so you're the one who is "naive", not me.

So the people in Chicago go cross state line to buy guns because there isn't a need to have and use them ????  Put your political rhetoric aside and look at it from a common sense approach.  Other cities in the US have stricter gun laws and lower crime rates. Which means, unlike Chicago there are jobs and hope for a better life.  Again that ties into it being a social issue. Chicago's problem. plain and simple.

Vexer6 wrote:

It's not "blaming a social issue on an inanimate object", that's a bunch of BS

The violent crime in Chicago is a product of there socio-economic problems . The statistics and facts support that, so how is it B/S ?  

So in your ideal Utopia, say we had the technology to make all guns disappear off planet Earth.  The socio-economic problems in Chicago would still exist.  The need to rob, steal, kill, and sell drugs to survive would not go away with the guns.  The violence would be there even without the guns.  So tell me again how blaming a social issue on an inanimate object is B/S again ?

Why don't you put YOUR "political rhetoric" aside dumbass?

You are talking nonsense and blinded by those idiots at the NRA.

It is BS you moron, you don't live here, so quit acting like you know everything:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/nov/07/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-repeats-chicago-has-strongest-gun-la/

http://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/oct/03/sarah-huckabee-sanders/chicago-toughest-gun-control-claim-shot-full-holes/

You know, this response type is not the best way to win anyone on your side of the debate, and I am not even conservative.

Exactly!

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I do enjoy reading INTELLIGENT posts on both sides of an issue.

Vexer6 wrote:

Why don't you put YOUR "political rhetoric" aside dumbass? You are talking nonsense and blinded by those idiots at the NRA.

I haven't mentioned the NRA or anything remotely concerning my political beliefs. So your accusations appear to be as weak as your reading comprehension skills.

Vexer6 wrote:

It is BS you moron, you don't live here, so quit acting like you know everything

My only point has been there is a reason why there is a need to have a gun in Chicago. It is the same in most every inner-city in America. No jobs, no hope, and you have to resort to criminal activity to survive. You seem to avoid that topic of "OUR" conversation and post links to things regarding gun laws. I don't really care about gun laws. I care more about solving the problem of people in America's inner cities needing real jobs and having hope for their children to break the cycle that has beset them for decades. Maybe if you would try to listen to another point of view, think for yourself, be willing to see that solutions are more often than not, found in compromise, and respond pro-socially...instead of reacting on emotion. Maybe you might be able have a conversation like an adult ?

This is a complicated issue. I definitely am against banning guns, but at the same time I wish it was harder for the psychos to get them!

At the end of the day, evil bastards will kill using any method at their disposal. Lately people just ram a car into a crowd, and we all have seen on the news the damage a homemade bomb can do...
If we ban guns, the criminals will still get their hands on them, but legal gun carrying citizens will be powerless to stop a dire situation. The cops can't be everywhere when something goes down.

Quote :

So you support a pedophile who openly attacks victims of gun violence? You're clearly a horrible person. Good to know that I shouldn't take anything you say seriously.

 That's ok...I don't take whiny millennials like you serious and after your rudeness I doubt anyone else will either.. You don't get your way man. There are way too many folks like me out there and the massive contributions to the NRA over the last few weeks prove it (not to mention the results of this poll)...and yes I am a fan of Nugent and all the other stars of the 70s and 80s that "fooled around" on the road ....and if that makes me a horrible person then ok..whatever

Vexer6 wrote:

bassman wrote:

The NRA does not have a "deathgrip" on politicians...that's complete hysterical nonsense. The NRA's PAC is a completely separate entity from the NRA itself...membership fees do not go to political donations. Over the last 20 years the NRA spent about $220 million politically....compared to the billions that the AFL-CIO and other large unions pour into a single years election cycle for Democrats, yet I don't see anyone on TV protesting that the Dems are "owned" by the unions.  

No it's not "hysterial nonsense" fool, the stupid Dickey Amendment is the reason there's been no research on gun violence for over two decades, your post is the only thing that is "Hysterical nonsense" here:https://rantt.com/how-the-nra-took-american-politics-hostage-8cfc6f82e5e6

If there's been no research. then where are all these the statistics coming from that various pundits are spouting all over TV and the internet? I'm not an NRA member, don't really have anything to do with them, but they certainly don't deserve the abuse that's been heaped upon them in the media lately.
Might send them a check and join up just out of spite.

Quote :

at the same time I wish it was harder for the psychos to get them!

I hear this all the time and I get it but I wonder what makes a person a "psycho"... What is the definition of this and how do we weed them out? Are you talking mean evil people or mentally ill? One persons idea of mean and evil isn't always someone else's idea ...and 1 out of every 8 Americans is thought to have mental illness by the mental health organizations yet only around 10% ever see a doctor and get a diagnosis... then there is the issue of hippa and medical privacy and that could lead to lawsuits.. and then you have the people who would qualify to buy a weapon living in a home with someone who cant buy a weapon. .how do we deal with that.. And ultimately you have criminals who don't care about the law and WILL always find a way to get whatever weapons they want...