Let's talk about guns

I am the last person on this board to be congenial about the things I believe in. But, I really want this to be respectful, non-incendiary, and intelligent. This is, maybe, the biggest issue of the year and I really want to hear all sides, without the name-calling that I usually love so much.

I am a native born Texan who has owned guns since age 5. My family, as well as most everyone around us, has always had many guns in our home. I grew up in a time with no gun control at all. I even bought my own shells when i was a kid. In high school alot of the redneck kids had rifles in a gunrack in the back window of their trucks and parked on school grounds...no one thought anything about it. Personally i miss those days and wish for a return to that era. I personally dont believe there should be any gun control or registration. If a person has the cash they should be permitted to buy the gun....including semi and full auto guns. Politically i am an independant who leans Libertarian .... i am a NRA supporter....

Until about a year ago, I had never owned a handgun. I have always had rifles and shotguns and did a lot of hunting, basically for whatever was in season that would help my family put a little extra food on the table. In high school I always had at least one gun, either a shotgun or rifle, in my car in the school parking lot because I was either hunting before school or immediately after, if not both. No one was ever shot, hell, most of us had a hunting knife on our belt or a fairly large folding knife in our pocket all the time and they were never used in anger.
I live in an open carry state where no permit is required to carry as long as it's not concealed. If you want to hide the fact that you have a gun on you, then you need a permit for that. I bought a 1911 .45 semi-auto last spring and have had a blast taking it to the range and developing the skill of shooting a handgun properly. There is a huge heroin problem in my community, with lots of break-ins and home invasions, I feel better knowing that I have the ability to protect my family if the need would arise.

I've never owned a gun. I have no interest in ever owning one. If you like 'em, fine by me. Just stay out of my kids' schools with'em, mmmm-kay??

I've never owned a gun either but I have considered getting a handgun to keep in the house for protection. Personally I'd have no issue submitting to whatever mental health or background checks anyone cares to run on me in the process either.

Voted, we don't have enough. Until the world is at peace, and all governments love one another, and everyone can get along and live in perfect harmony, where all crime is a thing of the past, and only a myth, then and only then can they have my guns. So of course that will never happen.

Gun control is the most ridiculous thing there is for them to even try. Sadly I think we are losing the fight, and if not for organizations like the NRA, we'd be doomed already. I hope any of you guys that are even casual shooters join the NRA. Yes they will ask you for money all the time. Yes it gets annoying sometimes. But if not for them, even you casual shooters out there won't have that option. Think it's something like $25.00 a year for membership, and you get a free magazine. Twenty five bucks is a small price to pay to keep your freedom. Plus the more numbers they have the better. Politicians can see how many members they have and maybe start to think twice about all those votes they will lose later if they keep on with their bullshit agenda.

Anyways, I could go on for days about this, but I'm tired and worn out right now. Plus I don't wanna start a flame war here so I'll shut up now lol

I'm all for responsible, law abiding people owning guns. There just needs to be a better/more effective background check. Unstable people have no right owning them.

Troublezone wrote:

There just needs to be a better/more effective background check. Unstable people have no right owning them.

And who are going to be the ones to determine who is or is not stable? What sort of guidelines will be laid out to determine what exactly a stable person is?

I voted for I live outside of the U.S etc.... But it doesn't sum up my feelings because I understand the significance of the second amendment perfectly well and to some degree support the argument. I just don't think that you don't really need armor piercing laser sighted rocket launchers for self defense.

I do find it fascinating that there are other countries with a ton of guns (Canada and Switzerland to name two) that don't have the same problems as the U.S

I also can't see how anyone can make the argument that you don't have enough guns. They are so freely available that you would have to give them free to toddlers and people who hate guns to get more into circulation.

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

There just needs to be a better/more effective background check. Unstable people have no right owning them.

And who are going to be the ones to determine who is or is not stable? What sort of guidelines will be laid out to determine what exactly a stable person is?

Try common sense.

I don't think someone with a history of (proven) mental illness should have a gun. Especially paranoid individuals or severely depressed people. And people with uncontrolled anger issues. Those are a few I would label "unstable".

And to make it clear, I'm not against guns!

Just lunatics with a death wish and no conscious.

I do also believe guns are necessary to fight criminals (can't always rely on police) and discourage a tyrannical government.

Troublezone wrote:

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

There just needs to be a better/more effective background check. Unstable people have no right owning them.

And who are going to be the ones to determine who is or is not stable? What sort of guidelines will be laid out to determine what exactly a stable person is?

Try common sense.

I don't think someone with a history of (proven) mental illness should have a gun. Especially paranoid individuals or severely depressed people. And people with uncontrolled anger issues. Those are a few I would label "unstable".

And if you fill out the paperwork truthfully on the existing background checks they do, it asks if you have a history of mental illness.

Scroll down to section A row 11.F

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

When you buy a firearm, you have to fill these out. At least I think this is the form they use. It's been a very long time since I made a purchase. Of course if you buy one from a friend or acquaintance or something, you probably never see these forms.

I agree, someone with proven mental health issues should not be allowed to own a gun. But we don't need any new regulations, because that regulation is already in place. However, what I was getting at is the fact that, just about every single living person on Earth has had some sort of depression. So my point earlier is that it's a fine line we have to walk so we don't end up allowing the government to label all of us mentally handicapped. Something I believe they would do eventually.

They know they can't just go door to door and take them, it would cause an all out revolution....I would hope. But if they get a foothold with some vague laws getting passed, then they can tighten the strings to make it damn near impossible to buy one in the future. This stuff isn't just for today, we need to think about our childrens children.

Troublezone wrote:

And to make it clear, I'm not against guns!

Just lunatics with a death wish and no conscious.

I think we can all say the same here lol At least the second part of your statement.

Boris2008 wrote:

I voted for I live outside of the U.S etc....  But it doesn't sum up my feelings because I understand the significance of the second amendment perfectly well and to some degree support the argument. I just don't think that you don't really need armor piercing laser sighted rocket launchers for self defense.

I do find it fascinating that there are other countries with a ton of guns (Canada and Switzerland to name two) that don't have the same problems as the U.S

I also can't see how anyone can make the argument that you don't have enough guns. They are so freely available that you would have to give them free to toddlers and people who hate guns to get more into circulation.

It's not quite that easy to get guns as the media might lead you to believe. I buy from a friend of mine, who is a licensed FFL dealer and I still have to get a background check run every time I buy, even though we've been friends for 20 years.

What is mind boggling is there are people who actually believe that a ban on guns via legislation will make them magically disappear forever off the face of the earth. Look at all the other things that are illegal and are still around & highly profitable. Most people are law abiding for the most part. Yet if somebody really wants to get access to something, do you honestly believe any law is going to stop them from obtaining it ? (IMHO)The gun isn't as much of the problem as society in general. There are countless forms of media out there that glorify violence, which can desensitize an individual to the consequences, the impact on those victimized (directly/indirectly), and blind to other options that might lead to making a different choice. "My life sucks and they will remember me now" has nothing to do with a gun, the gun is just a means to an end. The real problem is what makes somebody think that way to begin with. That particular thought process is becoming more and more prevalent in modern society. Nobody wants to point a finger at themselves, be it the parents, the family, the educators, the community, the medical professionals, the government, law enforcement, the individual, and the list goes on.

Banishing guns wont make them go away this I believe and i also believe this will accomplish nothing.

Making it strict to be able to get them, may help the issue but at the same time people get them illegally all the time.

I believe that a proper gun education is needed its not the solution but its needed, taught safety, responsibility, and most of all respect for the firearm.

I also believe parents need to step up and BE parents, this will help the issue

I dont think that there is a simple solution to this problem

This is the short skinny of where I stand

Addy wrote:

I believe that a proper gun education is needed its not the solution but its needed, taught safety, responsibility, and most of all respect for the firearm.

I full heartedly agree with that. Like others said, but back when I was in school we had several kids that had rifles in their truck Windows. Even way back in elementary school, every year we would get a police officer come by the school and teach us stuff about them. A lot of kids went to gun clubs and learned how to shoot for sport and fun. It was a different time when PARENTS tried to educate their kids, not Google.

There was once a thing called "the Prohibition". It was a government ban on alcohol sales.

Long story short... it didn't last.

Troublezone wrote:

There was once a thing called "the Prohibition". It was a government ban on alcohol sales.

Long story short... it didn't last.

Amazing the media never brings that up huh? How did that work out for them? Oh yeah, crime rates and the black market doubled. It gave the mafia a ton of power it never would have had otherwise, and pretty much led to this so called war on drugs we are still dealing with today.

I own several guns and am teaching my kids proper gun safety and handling.I believe fully in the 2nd amendment. Passing more gun laws won't help the problem. It's not a gun problem it's a people problem. Yeah I know you've heard that plenty on social media but it's the truth. If they can't get guns they'll use something else.Places with strict gun laws have higher crime rates than those that don't. Gun free zones makes it easy for the criminal.
I agree with Wrecked Neck on recommending anyone to join the NRA. I'm a member as well. It's a small price to pay for freedom.

Everything here sounds reasonable--even the echo chamber sentiments (ironically the majority of why I quit Facebook)--but i can't get behind the NRA worship. Blindly contributing to any special interest group that lobbies for politicians with a thinly veiled motive smacks of nothing more than fanboy patriotism refusing to extend beyond a single dimension.

That said, I'd actually appreciate a decent description of how the NRA operates from one of their supporters. Most of my good friends who are members can't seem to drum up anything beyond "they protect our second amendment rights." If there is some modicum of pragmatic function there, cool. But I've yet to hear anything insightful.

It should be known that I was a gun nut once upon a time with a healthy love for my Beretta M9 or sighting in my Springfield 1903. Leaving that phase of my life, however, is a story that seems to have generated understanding so far in dialogue with other enthusiasts.

bassman wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

I voted for I live outside of the U.S etc....  But it doesn't sum up my feelings because I understand the significance of the second amendment perfectly well and to some degree support the argument. I just don't think that you don't really need armor piercing laser sighted rocket launchers for self defense.

I do find it fascinating that there are other countries with a ton of guns (Canada and Switzerland to name two) that don't have the same problems as the U.S

I also can't see how anyone can make the argument that you don't have enough guns. They are so freely available that you would have to give them free to toddlers and people who hate guns to get more into circulation.

It's not quite that easy to get guns as the media might lead you to believe. I buy from a friend of mine, who is a licensed FFL dealer and I still have to get a background check run every time I buy, even though we've been friends for 20 years.

Obviously I'm ignorant of the facts as this isn't my country but I was told that there is a loophole at the gun shows?

Boris2008 wrote:

bassman wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

I voted for I live outside of the U.S etc....  But it doesn't sum up my feelings because I understand the significance of the second amendment perfectly well and to some degree support the argument. I just don't think that you don't really need armor piercing laser sighted rocket launchers for self defense.

I do find it fascinating that there are other countries with a ton of guns (Canada and Switzerland to name two) that don't have the same problems as the U.S

I also can't see how anyone can make the argument that you don't have enough guns. They are so freely available that you would have to give them free to toddlers and people who hate guns to get more into circulation.

It's not quite that easy to get guns as the media might lead you to believe. I buy from a friend of mine, who is a licensed FFL dealer and I still have to get a background check run every time I buy, even though we've been friends for 20 years.

Obviously I'm ignorant of the facts as this isn't my country but I was told that there is a loophole at the gun shows?

There is not a loophole at gun shows, any federally licensed firearms dealer must conduct a background check for every sale. Some private sellers, who are not FFL dealers, do not have to do the background check, but the vast majority of those sales are old vintage guns that are sold at family auctions after someone has passed away, or are non-functional and suitable only to hang on a wall as decoration. You cannot just walk into a gun show, purchase an AR-15, and walk back out without passing a background check. Whether all the relevant information is in the system when that background check gets run is a whole other matter, which needs to be addressed, as several of these recent shooters have had things in their past that would have prevented them from legally buying a gun if the information had been properly entered into the system.

James B. wrote:

What is mind boggling is there are people who actually believe that a ban on guns via legislation will  make them magically disappear forever off the face of the earth.   Look at all the other things that are illegal and are still around & highly profitable.  Most people are law abiding for the most part.  Yet if somebody really wants to get access to something, do you honestly believe any law is going to stop them from obtaining it ?   (IMHO)The gun isn't as much of the problem as society in general.  There are countless forms of media out there that glorify violence, which can desensitize an individual to the consequences, the impact on those victimized (directly/indirectly), and blind to other options that might lead to making a different choice.  "My life sucks and they will remember me now" has nothing to do with a gun, the gun is just a means to an end. The real problem is what makes somebody think that way to begin with. That particular thought process is becoming more and more prevalent in modern society.  Nobody wants to point a finger at themselves, be it the parents, the family, the educators, the community, the medical professionals, the government, law enforcement, the individual, and the list goes on.

That dosen't mean there should be zero restrictions, the Parkland shooter was able to buy a gun because there was no law restricting people under 21 from buying them.  Also as someone from Illinois i'm sick to death of people using Chicago as an excuse for why gun laws don't work, here's the thing-Chicago gets a lot of gun deaths because the states surrounding Illinois have extremely weak gun laws that make it easy for them to get trafficked in.

Also Ted Nugent can kiss my ass, i've had a problem with his idiotic statements for a long time, but this is a new low for him:https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/03/30/nra-board-member-ted-nugent-calls-parkland-students-poor-pathetic-liars-no-soul/219803

Jessie Hughes can burn in hell too.

Anyone who thinks we don't have enough guns is insane IMO. After all other developed countries don't have nearly as many guns as we do and have a much lower murder rate, so i'm having a tough time understanding people who believe we need more of the damn things even though we already have more guns then people.

Personally I support the Parkland students 100%, i'm sick of the NRA's death grip on politicians and preventing research into gun violence, anyone who attacks the students is human garbage as far as i'm concerned.  The sooner the NRA gets the hell out of politics the better, ironically they got into politics because they were paranoid over black people owning guns.

To be clear I don't think all NRA members are bad people, but the people in charge of the NRA and on their board are all scumbags who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, especially Dana Loesch(stupid Catch U Next Tuesday) and Wayne La Pierre(no Wayne, violent video games were not responsible for Sandy Hook you dickhead).