System Of A Down - Toxicity (And a general thought)

CIIC wrote:

I didn't say millions of people are wrong. I don't see how you can be wrong when it comes to tastes anyway. If people like SOAD, good for them.

OK, that's the point I was trying to make. I guess I didn't get that from your first post. Meaning millions of people obviously like them, thus they surely can't suck in a definitive sense.

Quote :

What I'm saying is SOAD is a trendy band and what bothers me is there are lots of real metal bands which put out great stuff that will never get the attention they deserve because they're not "popular" bands.

Well, this scenario is true for countless bands. It's far more a luck issue than talent a lot of times. With that said, SOAD surely deserved to be signed. They secured a spot on Ozzfest with only three cassette demos being released, and they blew everyone away that year. They're highly original and write excellent music. This isn't a case of one band getting signed while others that deserved it more didn't get signed. I don't think there's such a thing as one band deserving it more when it comes to bands that simply deserve recognition, and SOAD is one of those bands.

As for the trendy comment, I assume you're referring to their mainstream success. I hope so, at least, because "trendy" can imply following, and SOAD surely haven't followed any trends.

Quote :

As to logic, there's no such thing either in the music industry otherwise record sales would be proportional to the quality of the material. And how can you compare the sales of a band signed to a major with its promotion and distribution power to that of an indie band?

Did I?

they are a unique band who got big how anyone would see it as trendy is beyind me

TheGooch wrote:

they are a unique band who got big how anyone would see it as trendy is beyind me

Good point.

GrandNational wrote:

TheGooch wrote:

they are a unique band who got big how anyone would see it as trendy is beyind me

Good point.

i would say they got big of their uniqueness. people boughtinto them becuase they were a breath of fresh air at the time in the rock world

still i can barely bring myself to listen to them these days

They got big because they write great music that is original, but that's only part of it. The main reason they got big is because they have a manager that invested a lot of money into the band, money that he essentially didn't have (he took out loans). And because he had a great vision, and idea, the cursed street team! Of course, at the time, the SOAD street team was killer! It was nothing like annoying teams nearly every band has these days. They're just spammers.

But SOADs team members were big fans, really enthusiastic because Beno's enthusiasm was infectious. The dude would call your house, speak with you personally about all kinds of crap, and he'd play you demos the band was recording in the studio. It was cool. That's the biggest reason why they got popular. Beno was a leader, and he amassed a promotional army, one so strong that they got SOAD on Ozzfest before their debut album came out.

Ah i never knew that although i always wondered how they got on ozzfest with no album

TheGooch wrote:

Ah i never knew that although i always wondered how they got on ozzfest with no album

It was literally one of the most brilliant promotional moves the music world has ever seen. It was a big investment, of course, but it sure did pay off, eh?

Always with the SOAD street team stories, Eyesore. Not that they're not interesting of course - but were you actually part of their whole promotional movement?

Smindas wrote:

Always with the SOAD street team stories, Eyesore. Not that they're not interesting of course - but were you actually part of their whole promotional movement?

I was. I joined a team of 12 in 1997.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense actually. Must've been quite an experience as you speak so positively of it. But I'm a bit confused, is a street team jsut a group of people who do promotions out in public? Or is there more to it? It's not really a term I'm hugely familiar with.

Smindas wrote:

Ah, that makes a lot of sense actually. Must've been quite an experience as you speak so positively of it. But I'm a bit confused, is a street team jsut a group of people who do promotions out in public? Or is there more to it? It's not really a term I'm hugely familiar with.

Well, then and now it's essentially the same. A band/label sends you stickers, samplers, and whatnot, and you basically hand them out at shows or whatever. These days it's not as cool because you get crap like samplers with snippets of songs and such. SOAD was giving out an exclusive demo! Plus there were other things we got like posters, album flats, EPK videos and such. It was just more intimate then, you know. Beno, their manager, like I mentioned would personally call people on the phone. And the band members themselves took the time to show their appreciation. I still talk to Serj on e-mail! Now the whole street team thing is just completely impersonal and it's not nearly worth it.

Back when SOAD did it, people listened. Now a street team is the equivalent of someone passing out literature pamphlets at a mall. The first trash barrel you see you drop the pamphlet into, you know? It really has no greater impact.

As for me, I don't really feel cool about being a part of it or anything, I just appreciate innovative things. And that was pretty innovative. But it was basically a one-shot deal. Yeah, Beno has a promotional company now, so it worked out for him of course, but it's not the same. The impact isn't the same. He's basically just a dime-a-dozen advertiser now.

Ahhh right. Cheers for clearing that up. I know what you mean about the non-intimate street teams that exist nowadays - at most people will just hand you a flyer without saying a word. If that's meant to get me enthused about a band, they need to reassess their advertising campaign.

Sorry guys, but I just HATE that type of music...and, no offence, but I find it really wrong to call that stuff "metal" ....even St. Anger is more "metal". Anyway, I am not going to rant on about how much I hate this type of music....as for the band/album itself, I could never stomach System of a Down (well..couldn't with ANY nu-metal/Alternative/Grunge/other modern bands..) ....I mean, I hate all the new, modern crap people call "metal" today, but I found System of a Down to be even more un-listenable....no offence to the band itself of for those who like them (except ignorant, emo-wannabe teenagers, who don't know anything about music)..

I used to hate SOAD. They were too eclectic for my (rapidly growing) tastes, and they just seemed to grind on me.

I've become a fan of theirs recently, as well as a fan of Serj's solo career (all one album of it).

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Sorry guys, but I just HATE that type of music...and, no offence, but I find it really wrong to call that stuff "metal" ....even St. Anger is more "metal". Anyway, I am not going to rant on about how much I hate this type of music....as for the band/album itself, I could never stomach System of a Down (well..couldn't with ANY nu-metal/Alternative/Grunge/other modern bands..) ....I mean, I hate all the new, modern crap people call "metal" today, but I found System of a Down to be even more un-listenable....no offence to the band itself of for those who like them (except ignorant, emo-wannabe teenagers, who don't know anything about music)..

You're not going to rant? What the hell was this? And I realize you have a lot of man-juice pent up for Metallica, but St. Anger was exactly what you claim to hate. Not only that, it's one of the worst albums in the history of music.

And for the record, I'm a huge Metallica fan. I think Load and Reload are great albums. But St. Anger is a festering pile of audio turd. And it's modern!

Eyesore wrote:

I realize you have a lot of man-juice pent up for Metallica,

I could see that coming a mile off.

.

Locky wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

I realize you have a lot of man-juice pent up for Metallica,

I could see that coming a mile off.

.

A mile off? Damn! That is a lot!

Ahh yes! Toxicity brings plenty of humble memories!

Eyesore wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Sorry guys, but I just HATE that type of music...and, no offence, but I find it really wrong to call that stuff "metal" ....even St. Anger is more "metal". Anyway, I am not going to rant on about how much I hate this type of music....as for the band/album itself, I could never stomach System of a Down (well..couldn't with ANY nu-metal/Alternative/Grunge/other modern bands..) ....I mean, I hate all the new, modern crap people call "metal" today, but I found System of a Down to be even more un-listenable....no offence to the band itself of for those who like them (except ignorant, emo-wannabe teenagers, who don't know anything about music)..

You're not going to rant? What the hell was this? And I realize you have a lot of man-juice pent up for Metallica, but St. Anger was exactly what you claim to hate. Not only that, it's one of the worst albums in the history of music.

And for the record, I'm a huge Metallica fan. I think Load and Reload are great albums. But St. Anger is a festering pile of audio turd. And it's modern!

I never said I liked the St. Anger, and believe me, I am as big a fan of Metallica as you. I never concidered St. Anger a serious album release. Watching "Some Kind of Monster", I got a much better understanding of why it turned out like that. I totally dug the "Loads" (especially ReLoad) like you did. I'm just saying, System of a Down is just horrible in my ears. And I clearly stated, I mean no offence to the band or those who like them.

Eyesore wrote:

Locky wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

I realize you have a lot of man-juice pent up for Metallica,

I could see that coming a mile off.

.

A mile off? Damn! That is a lot!

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, go on with the gay-jokes. First of all, no, not really. Second of all, I'd rather have a load of Stinky-Beaver-Juice spent on Metallica, than on some flavour-of-the-month, Hot-Topic, MTV Hit-Vid favourite.

I'm with Eyesore, truth be told. St Anger is a universal abomination - at least SOAD were original. And by saying you're not going to rant, and then choosing to rant is ever so slightly hypocritical.

Smindas wrote:

I'm with Eyesore, truth be told. St Anger is a universal abomination...

Not to mention it was a "flavour-of-the-month, Hot-Topic, MTV Hit-Vid favourite".

Smindas wrote:

I'm with Eyesore, truth be told. St Anger is a universal abomination - at least SOAD were original. And by saying you're not going to rant, and then choosing to rant is ever so slightly hypocritical.

I wrote that I was not going to go into a deep rant about HOW they suck and stuff like that. I just said that I did not like that much moder metal, especially SOAD. I did start ranting afterwards, but Eyesore did indeed start that

And AGAIN, Eyesore (damn, some people just don't read everything, in order to have an excuse to try and come off as funny), I never liked St. Anger either. Load and ReLoad, yes, more commercial, but I don't get why people start blowing it off (I am not refering to you, here) for some modern "alternative" drivle...listening to "King Nothing" "Mama Said" (Hate it as much as you want, but I love that song), Fuel, etc. I just hear a kick-ass, punk-ish rock feast, and "Mama Said" is a nice, easy-listening soft rock song with Country/Blues influences. Geez, Aersosmith and Thin Lizzy do it, and I don't see people calling them "alternative" sell-outs?

- I meant Metallica as a whole, Eyesore, not just St. Anger. And SOAD, as a whole, IS a Flavour-of-the-month MTV Hit-Vid band. Yes, Video's from "Load" were played regularly, but at least it was GOOD music. Pantera were by no means "nu-metal", but sometimes real, good, non-alternative music starts to appeal the mainstream.

Sometimes I can't follow your rants. I love Load and Reload. I think they're killer albums. I would say the Metallica name isn't befitting of the style, but that's my one and only complaint about those two albums. St. Anger is pure crap. I could have sworn you had once said it was a great album, but that might have been someone else.

And I didn't start anything here. You said you weren't going to rant, and then immediately after you did rant. Haha. I just pointed that out. But I did so in a friendly manner. Remember, try to not be so sensitive here. It seems like you're being defensive. No one is trying to fight with you. This isn't Blabbermouth, just a group of passionate music fans. I think we all defend our opinion because we love music, but in my near year here, I haven't seen one fight. So don't worry about that. Since 1995 I have been making people think I'm a dick online because of the way I debate. I'm not ever being a dick. I simply believe in my opinion and I don't back down. Usually the people that are mad at me for defending my opinion are doing the same exact thing, defending their opinion. That's always baffled me. Haha.

But honestly, I don't like fighting online and I'm not doing so here. It's all in good fun, and an intelligent debate is always welcome in my world. I never get mad when someone disagrees with me. Just don't get frustrated if I don't give in. =)

Eyesore wrote:

Sometimes I can't follow your rants. I love Load and Reload. I think they're killer albums. I would say the Metallica name isn't befitting of the style, but that's my one and only complaint about those two albums. St. Anger is pure crap. I could have sworn you had once said it was a great album, but that might have been someone else.

And I didn't start anything here. You said you weren't going to rant, and then immediately after you did rant. Haha. I just pointed that out. But I did so in a friendly manner. Remember, try to not be so sensitive here. It seems like you're being defensive. No one is trying to fight with you. This isn't Blabbermouth, just a group of passionate music fans. I think we all defend our opinion because we love music, but in my near year here, I haven't seen one fight. So don't worry about that. Since 1995 I have been making people think I'm a dick online because of the way I debate. I'm not ever being a dick. I simply believe in my opinion and I don't back down. Usually the people that are mad at me for defending my opinion are doing the same exact thing, defending their opinion. That's always baffled me. Haha.

But honestly, I don't like fighting online and I'm not doing so here. It's all in good fun, and an intelligent debate is always welcome in my world. I never get mad when someone disagrees with me. Just don't get frustrated if I don't give in. =)

I am like you, buddy =) haha.

No, I never said I liked St. Anger at all (I think Gooch said that it was a great albu, if I recall correctly). Ahh, well. This is stupid. You like System of a Down, I don't. I am just old school til' death! (with few exeptions, though).