A ban on clean vocals?

Commence Rant:

So lately I have been listening to a lot of different power metal bands - in some cases rediscovering bands I hadn't listened to in a while, and in other cases experiencing some bands both older and newer for the first time. Suffice to say, I never distanced myself from the genre and I have always liked the bands that add a fresh perspective, a new level of originality etc. (much as you would with most other genres).

I should preface this by say that I generally like all genres of hard rock and heavy metal (some exceptions such as gore grind and grind which I don't like at all). You could never really peg me in a particular genre - often times if someone hears me talking about death metal or thrash metal for a while people think I like just those genres but that couldn't be further from the truth. I don't listen to bands and metal as a whole based on sub-genres but rather based on how a certain band moves me - how I am able to connect with the sound and style of the particular band in front of me.

Having said that, I want your take on why so much hatred towards power/traditional bands with clean vocals? With the advent of more 'br00tal' bands, it seems so many "metalheads" consider power/traditional metal weak. It is almost a repeat of the early 90s and the ban on solos - except now it's a ban on clean melodic vocals, or any sort of melody in the vocals, any sing-alongs - basically anything you can understand that doesn't sound grinding is a big NO NO.

Excuse me as I get on my high horse and look down upon the infidels of metal - but I attribute this to the promulgation of bastardised genres such as metalcore and generally anything 'core' related. As I see it, the mainstream accessibility to bands of these sub-genres has created a distorted understanding of what metal is - basically new comers seem to think that unless the band in question is copying LoG or worse, is playing 'DJENT' it is not 'br00tal' and hence not metal.

This frustrates me to no end. Nearly every youtuber who does album reviews talks ad nauseam about how great some brutal band is and their top 20s are just riddled with all these 'core' or brutal death metal bands but not one band with clean vocals.

/end rant

No hate for clean vocals here. I personally can't stand the whole WOOOOARRRRGH thing.

Personally, I love both styles. Certain genres wouldn't work without the growls/shrieks/screams/etc. and certain genres wouldn't work without operatic clean vocals.

The solution is very easy: don't pay attention to those "br00tal" bands/reviewers and everything should be okay. For every band with lame growling vocals (cough*AngelaGossow*cough) there are plenty of good bands to occupy you for a lifetime.

Wurthless wrote:

Personally, I love both styles. Certain genres wouldn't work without the growls/shrieks/screams/etc. and certain genres wouldn't work without operatic clean vocals.

I agree. I have no issue with this or with bands that do utilise extreme vocal styles. At a band / genre level it is fine.

My frustration stems from the fan base level which seems to consider anything that doesn't use extreme vocal styles as not being metal.

Alex Dee Rokket wrote:

Wurthless wrote:

Personally, I love both styles. Certain genres wouldn't work without the growls/shrieks/screams/etc. and certain genres wouldn't work without operatic clean vocals.

My frustration stems from the fan base level which seems to consider anything that doesn't use extreme vocal styles as not being metal.

Yeah, I agree with stormspell then. Everyone likes what they like, and if they base it just on who's the most "brvtal" or whatever, just forget about 'em.

I hate to be cliche, but they come across as posers to me.

I like clean vox too. I just shun most power metal because, from what I have heard in the last 25 years, it all sounds like Keeper of the Seven Keys Parts 4-10000. I am sure my personality and an ear that hears what it wants to hear has alot to do with it. But, I could not tell you Hammerfall from Vanden Plas - or Stratovarius from Gamma Ray. It all sounds very "same-y" to me. I also am stuck-up with bands like Grave Digger and Rage that started out so cool in my mind, and then just lumped themselves in with the rest of the Euro-metal thing, under the guise of "growing musically as artists". Tankard has never had the need to grow musically, and they still kick ass over most of those that sprung up around them.

i really dont like cookie monster vocals much anymore. I will pick something if i really really like it but most growlers do not interest me anymore.

It all depends on the individual band and what suits their particular style.

Fans that only like one specific thing (like the reviewers you describe) are too narrow minded to even pay attention to. Like what you like and ignore what others have to say.

I like both but I prefer clean. As a vocalist, I use growls because my singing is too clean. I'd love to be able to sing with an edge but I have never mastered putting "grit" into my voice so I will accent some growls to make up for it.

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

I like clean vox too. I just shun most power metal because, from what I have heard in the last 25 years, it all sounds like Keeper of the Seven Keys Parts 4-10000. I am sure my personality and an ear that hears what it wants to hear has alot to do with it. But, I could not tell you Hammerfall from Vanden Plas - or Stratovarius from Gamma Ray. It all sounds very "same-y" to me. I also am stuck-up with bands like Grave Digger and Rage that started out so cool in my mind, and then just lumped themselves in with the rest of the Euro-metal thing, under the guise of "growing musically as artists". Tankard has never had the need to grow musically, and they still kick ass over most of those that sprung up around them.

It is all subjective in the end. I agree there are many power metal bands that copy Helloween and I think so that extent many contend that the power metal genre has not progressed but rather just produced tribute bands. However, by the same token it could be argued that all thrash sounds samey all glam sounds samey all death all back etc. That's why I think it's subjective, if you like the band that's all that really matters.

For example, I like the band Freedom Call - many will say outright this band lacks any originality and sounds just like another power metal band paying tribute to the Helloween's Keepers era. Sure I can see their point, and sure there is nothing particularly original about their sound yet I still like them. I can't explain it any better than to simply say, their sound to my ears is kick-a$$. Their songs are anthemic, catchy, with fast riffs, fast drumming and epic choruses - that pretty much sums up power metal for me. Similarly, I collect thrash metal bands that arguably sound similar to the big 4. Again, I think it's because they all have the right elements which make me like the band / sub-genre not necessarily because they are very original.

Extreme metal needs to ban un-memorable riffs.

S.D. wrote:

Fans that only like one specific thing (like the reviewers you describe) are too narrow minded to even pay attention to. Like what you like and ignore what others have to say.

pretty much my take on it too.

both vocal styles (clean/extreme) have their admirers. this forum for example generally takes a polar opposite view of the one initially described, with the same people repeating the "WOOOOARRRRGH" line every time the topic of death/black metal comes up.

What I never understood is the downright ridicule (sp?) of the genre. People who claim to like metal and/or hard rock who seem to point their nose in the air when it comes to euro-metal, as if it's a lesser part of the metal movement. I didn't see much complaining back in the late '90's, when the sub-genre helped revive the metal scene. Suddenly it's cool to hate HammerFall and Stratovarius, but without them I doubt we would gave Ghost, or any if the other retro bands that seem to be the flavor of the month these days. Heck, the retro-thrash movement would probably never seen the light of day either.

Personally I have grown a bit weary of the euro-metal scene, so I understand to a degree that people dislike all the copy bands. I just don't undertand the "hate" and ridicule.

It's the singer that makes or breaks a band for me. I only listen to bands with "clean" vocalists. I can't stand vocalists that shout, scream or growl.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Extreme metal needs to ban un-memorable riffs.

This is really my issue with extreme metal. I listen to a lot of death metal, and I enjoy it while it lasts, but most of those bands give me nothing memorable. This is why I have only a few favourite death metal bands (Death, Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, and Deicide), whereas I have a ton of power metal bands that rank among my favourites. It's just easier for power/traditional heavy metal to write memorable music, whereas I don't find that in death or black metal.

Thrash is generally hit or miss in terms of songwriting, but the clearer vocals and simpler songwriting structures work in its favour.

I love clean vocals. Nothing is better than an amazing vocalist. I've been listening to TNT - Tell No Tales for last few weeks. I mean to swap it out of my car for something else, but I just can't do it

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

I like clean vox too. I just shun most power metal because, from what I have heard in the last 25 years, it all sounds like Keeper of the Seven Keys Parts 4-10000. I am sure my personality and an ear that hears what it wants to hear has alot to do with it. But, I could not tell you Hammerfall from Vanden Plas - or Stratovarius from Gamma Ray. It all sounds very "same-y" to me. I also am stuck-up with bands like Grave Digger and Rage that started out so cool in my mind, and then just lumped themselves in with the rest of the Euro-metal thing, under the guise of "growing musically as artists". Tankard has never had the need to grow musically, and they still kick ass over most of those that sprung up around them.

I appreciate that Power Metal sticks to a very rigid formula most of the time, but surely this is just a viewpoint that is born out of not listening to a genre a lot? I would say all death metal sounds the same, but that's obviously not the case. I'm just not familiar with it enough to distinguish between different bands. Like any genre, new bands copy the legends before finding their own style. In any case I have no issue with a lot of bands sounding the same. If they release high quality material, I will listen to it.

I like the growlers if it's done right, but it's been done to death (metal) I really hate Geoff Tate/Michael Kiske type singers, sounds like a neutred cat to these ears. I just like straight down the line metal singers, anywhere from Kai Hansen to Rob Halford to Tom Araya and everything in between, but it's all about the music, if that's great then I can put up with not so great vocals.

I really don't agree that clean vocals are the best for Thrash though, I much preferred the likes of Kreator, Sodom and Possessed to say Anthrax or Hirax.

I prefer clean vocals, but I do like bands that accentuate their clean vocals with some harsher elements. I have no interest in Death or Black metal.

I quickly grew tired of Euro Power metal. As a genre, it's too sing-songy, happy-happy for my tastes. I prefer more grit to my music and Euro Power metal is the exact opposite of gritty. I guess to sum it up, I would rather listen to Halloween than Helloween.

I like both styles of singing but I prefer the clean "helium-high" vocal style. To me, the style of the vocals has got to flow with the music. It is about the final product delivered. I love Arch Enemy and I love Priest so it's the end result that matters. I have been known to rip up some "core" every now and again like Demon Hunter or As I Lay Dying when in the mood for some BROOTAL metal. Call me old fashioned, but even when the singer is going "WOOARRGGGHHH" (sp?) I don't want to have to whip out the lyrics on every song.

mc666 wrote:

with the same people repeating the "WOOOOARRRRGH" line every time the topic of death/black metal comes up.

I do that mainly because it irritates the livin' hell out of T-Roy. Sorry if it bugs you too.

The "helium" vocalists irritate me far more than the extreme style.

snooloui wrote:

I appreciate that Power Metal sticks to a very rigid formula most of the time, but surely this is just a viewpoint that is born out of not listening to a genre a lot?

That was essentially the point I was trying to make. So, yeah - I agree with that.

Btw, Harnell is one of my top 10 alltime fav singers. And Kmorg got me an autographed le Tekro poster that I still cherish!

I came across an article which basically says that Americans 'don't get' power metal - that the happy factor is strictly something Europeans only can relate to because of the concert / music listening lifestyle over there.

Would you agree?

I don't know why they don't get power metal, but it's absolutely true. Look at how few power metal bands can actually headline in North America. Those bands that do come over often do it every 4-5 years because it's the only way they can really draw well enough to compete with the audiences they get in Europe.