WWF/WWE/ECW/WCW

The Whole What bit was only good when it was done by Stone Cold after him, it was kinda dumb.

I remember Vader back when he was Baby Bull Leon White in the AWA. Used to love the match he had with Stan Hansen over the AWA title. Funny to think about getting to watch pro wrestling on ESPN. If I remember correctly Stan Hansen was the guy who also took Vader's eye out in Japan. Loved me some Stan Hansen, just a big old ornery Texas ass kicker. Do they even have anybody today like that? I would watch if Stan Hansen came back and just started Lariating people.

jstate wrote:

I remember Vader back when he was Baby Bull Leon White in the AWA. Used to love the match he had with Stan Hansen over the AWA title. Funny to think about getting to watch pro wrestling on ESPN. If I remember correctly Stan Hansen was the guy who also took Vader's eye out in Japan. Loved me some Stan Hansen, just a big old ornery Texas ass kicker. Do they even have anybody today like that? I would watch if Stan Hansen came back and just started Lariating people.

There was Bob Holly and JBL were close (tough JBL was more of a bully than a mean SOB) but both of them have retired. They were the last of the 'stiff' wrestlers (wrestlers that did not pull their punches, who legitimatly attacked their opponents). Of those two, Holly was the most feared. If he had a problem with you and you had a match with him, he'd do everything to make sure you got hurt in the match. Before Holly you had Haku/Meng, another stiff wrestler that would kick your ass if you pissed him off.

Always liked Holly and Bradshaw. Guess I dug the dudes that could really beat you up.

I was also a big fan of Haku especially the Islanders tag team. One of my favorite matches I saw live was a 2 out 3 falls match between them and Strike Force. Back when he was King Haku there was an incident in a Baltimore bar where he took out several guys that had challenged him. The riot squad had to be called in to stop the melee. It was big local news complete with eyewitnesses/police describing how Haku was the most dangerous and baddest man they had ever seen. They even had Haku challenge Hogan for the belt on a Saturday Nights Main Event taped in Baltimore and alluded (lightly since I'm sure the WWF paid a bunch to make the legal case go away) to the incident in the local promotion of it.

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

More like Godfather meets Flash Funk meets Rikishi. Brodus has been put on the back burner because McMahon thinks he's too sloppy in the ring so it remains to be seen what his WWE future holds.

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Yeah, he reminded me of King Kong Bundy, at times I even thought he would hold up the "FIVE" and demand a five count. Thought it would be cool to call him King Kong Brodus.

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Oh lord,really ? I hated thst gimmick. I'd rather see Papa Shango that that garbage.

007 wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Oh lord,really ? I hated thst gimmick. I'd rather see Papa Shango that that garbage.

Only if Papa Shango brings a can of Campbell's Split Pea Soup!

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Brodus Clay's story so far mirrors that of One Man Gang from the 80's: First a threatening heel who could kick anyones ass. Then came the face turn, One Man Gang turned into "Akeem, the African Dream" and started to dance around to some 80's funk music. Same with Brodus Clay, his face turn made him the "Funkasaurus" - only Slick as a manager was missing this time.

ShadowAngel wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Brodus Clay's story so far mirrors that of One Man Gang from the 80's: First a threatening heel who could kick anyones ass. Then came the face turn, One Man Gang turned into "Akeem, the African Dream" and started to dance around to some 80's funk music. Same with Brodus Clay, his face turn made him the "Funkasaurus" - only Slick as a manager was missing this time.

Though Akeem was not a face. Him and Boss Man were foder for the Mega Powers. Then after Twin Towers broke up, Boss Man was the face (one of the most popular mid-card faces in the early 90s I might add-I was a Boss Man fan myself) and Akeem stayed the heel until he went back to One Man Gang in WCW. On a side note, I prefered that One Man Gang, as he was more of a crazy man (was led to the ring by a choke chain) as part of Kevin Sullivan's stable (Sullivan had 'banished' Akeem to the underworld, leaving OMG crazy and dangerous).

DallasBlack wrote:

Though Akeem was not a face. Him and Boss Man were foder for the Mega Powers. Then after Twin Towers broke up, Boss Man was the face (one of the most popular mid-card faces in the early 90s I might add-I was a Boss Man fan myself) and Akeem stayed the heel until he went back to One Man Gang in WCW.

My Mistake, yeah he was a heel...though i never understood how a guy with such a colorful and cheesy gimmick can be a Heel...with Slick on his side nonetheless, after his ultra-cheesy "Jive Soul Bro" Musicvideo he should've been a face.

And Big Boss Man was great, very agile for his size and his cop gimmick was great. All the rip-offs they did at WCW (Guardian Angel, The Boss) were lame.

DallasBlack wrote:

On a side note, I prefered that One Man Gang, as he was more of a crazy man (was led to the ring by a choke chain) as part of Kevin Sullivan's stable (Sullivan had 'banished' Akeem to the underworld, leaving OMG crazy and dangerous).

Yeah he was part of that hilariously cheesy Dungeon of Doom stable in 1995. One thing i always wanted to see was One Man Gang versus Maxx Payne (anyone remember him? he went later to WWF and they completely destroyed him with that stupid "Man Mountain Rock" gimmick, i really liked him at WCW, especially in the Tag Team with Cactus Jack), two big aggressive guys going head to head is always fun.

ShadowAngel wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Though Akeem was not a face. Him and Boss Man were foder for the Mega Powers. Then after Twin Towers broke up, Boss Man was the face (one of the most popular mid-card faces in the early 90s I might add-I was a Boss Man fan myself) and Akeem stayed the heel until he went back to One Man Gang in WCW.

My Mistake, yeah he was a heel...though i never understood how a guy with such a colorful and cheesy gimmick can be a Heel...with Slick on his side nonetheless, after his ultra-cheesy "Jive Soul Bro" Musicvideo he should've been a face.

And Big Boss Man was great, very agile for his size and his cop gimmick was great. All the rip-offs they did at WCW (Guardian Angel, The Boss) were lame.

DallasBlack wrote:

On a side note, I prefered that One Man Gang, as he was more of a crazy man (was led to the ring by a choke chain) as part of Kevin Sullivan's stable (Sullivan had 'banished' Akeem to the underworld, leaving OMG crazy and dangerous).

Yeah he was part of that hilariously cheesy Dungeon of Doom stable in 1995. One thing i always wanted to see was One Man Gang versus Maxx Payne (anyone remember him? he went later to WWF and they completely destroyed him with that stupid "Man Mountain Rock" gimmick, i really liked him at WCW, especially in the Tag Team with Cactus Jack), two big aggressive guys going head to head is always fun.

Looks like we're starting to agree on some wrestling. I like Maxx Payne too, their matches with The Nasty Boys was great hardcore tag teaming (as good as WCW could do anyways-they're matches would have been brutal had they been in ECW). I remember Cactus Jack mentioning how much he loved those matches. He was one of the only guys I've ever heard saying they enjoyed wrestling The Nasites (of course that's one more that have stated enjoying matches with Ultimate Warrior) though he did admit how dangerous they were in the ring.

DallasBlack wrote:

I remember Cactus Jack mentioning how much he loved those matches. He was one of the only guys I've ever heard saying they enjoyed wrestling The Nasites (of course that's one more that have stated enjoying matches with Ultimate Warrior) though he did admit how dangerous they were in the ring.

For Warrior: Rick Rude and Randy Savage said only good things about him. Rude had a rather long feud (around Wrestlemania V for the IC title and then later in 1990 for the Championship Belt) and never said a negative thing about it. Same for Andre the Giant who by all acounts (except Bobby Heenan) said that Andre considered the Warrior a friend and enjoyed the matches.

The Nasty Boys were stiff, so were a lot of other wrestlers. So are a lot of wrestlers today. Mr. Kennedy was released from WWE because Randy Orton complained about him working too stiff. Fit Finlay got complaints from WWE guys for working too stiff. It's the same smurf poo Bret Hart writes in his Biography that he thinks it's wrong that wrestlers (he named guys like Ric Flair and Mitsuharu Misawa) actually connected with their Chops and Kicks and that this is not the way it should work. He says that a chop or a punch should never connect, instead make it look fake, slap on your own leg to make a sound...that's better.
All those complaints from some kitten wrestlers from the WWF/E and WCW make me wonder how those ultraviolent wrestlers like Jun Kasei survive losing all the blood, getting hammered with everything from 2x4 to video game consoles, TVs and other junk (Those "Fans bring the weapons" matches are always fun) or getting thrown into barbed wire, burning barbed wire, through glass, into thumbtacks or whatever else there is. By all accounts guys like Necro Butcher should've died at least 20 times.

You know what i would wish? Let those crybabies like Bret Hart, Randy Orton or Bobby Heenan become a woman for just one month, let them experience the menstrual cycle, all the cramps, the pain, the blood....they would never ever again complain about a wrestler being too stiff.

Being stiff and being careless are two different things. You have to be able to trust those you're in the ring with. If your opponent is not going to protect you from major harm then that is a problem. Injury is something that's going to happen but doesn't mean you should intentionally try to hurt you're opponent. This is pro wrestling, not boxing or MMA. There are different schools of wrestling and some involve being stiff. Some people will have no problem with it and others will depending on what they were taught. Don't for a second think that because Bret Hart doesn't think chops and kicks should really connect mean he's weak, nobody who went through Stu's dungeon is weak. However, he and many other wrestling legends don't believe in being stiff, it's just not what they were taught. I think you're being too hard on some of the guys that have different views on how things should work. Them having a different opinion than yours does not make them crybabies. If a wrestler suspects that their opponent might be a danger to them, should they just let it be and risk an injury that could put them on the backburner or even end their career? I wouldn't take that gamble if I were a pro wrestler. It's not really fair to bad mouth wrestlers just because they're looking out for themselves. After all, wrestling is their livelyhood.

BTW, a lot stiff wrestlers used the fact that wrestling was staged to hurt people, which could explain people's different experiences. In other words, stiff wrestlers tended to be harder on guys they didn't like vs. those they held no grudge against. Some were also bullies who just enjoyed making guys not as strong as them hurt. In those cases, I don't care how good a performer you are, you will not get any respect form me on that. In a perfect wrestling environment you're opponent is supposed to protect you in a match, but unfortunatly, human nature tends to not make that possible.

Edit:

Just to clear something up here. I have nothing against stiff wrestling as a lot of stiff wrestlers put on some great matches. A lot of my favorite wrestlers were stiff (Vader, Greg Valentine, Ric Flair, The Nasty Boys [as performers I like them but as people they're scum-at least Brian Knobbs is], etc.). When regular wrestling gets stale I also really enjoy hardcore matches. My main point was that stiff wrestling has it's place, but it should be used descresionlly (sic-don't feel like spell checking) depending on your opponent and the type of match. Not everybody will perform their best in a stiff match and vice versa and not all matches call for stiff wrestling.

My wrestling dreams died the day Wahoo McDaniel came into our family's business. Upon shaking his huge hand there wasn't enough money in the world that would make me want to get hit with one of his chops.

One of my favorites was Ronnie Garvin. And if you ever saw him live laying in those over hand chops you would really start to believe it was all real. I'm sure for his opponent it was. Poor Bobby Eaton's chest looked like bloody hamburger the one time. Even as a fan you would start to wonder why he had to blast'em like that. I much preferred the Garvin Stomp to the chops.

I was a huge UWF fan - so when One Man Gang came to the WWF after being UWF champ I was so excited when he was going to take on Hulk Hogan at the Cap Centre. Needless to say he was slammed/legdrop/pinned the first match. Pretty much knew then the UWF OMG wasn't going to be much in WWF. Usually new challengers got a rematch or two. Which was a shame because for such an enormous human being that dude could move. The 747 splash looked like it could kill you. Hated the whole Akeem thing too, since it was so clearly just a shot at Dusty Rhodes. Funny that Rhodes himself would arrive soon after.

I remember watching One Man Gang and the Von Erich brothers while kickin it in D/FW area in 1985

jstate wrote:

My wrestling dreams died the day Wahoo McDaniel came into our family's business. Upon shaking his huge hand there wasn't enough money in the world that would make me want to get hit with one of his chops.

One of my favorites was Ronnie Garvin. And if you ever saw him live laying in those over hand chops you would really start to believe it was all real. I'm sure for his opponent it was. Poor Bobby Eaton's chest looked like bloody hamburger the one time. Even as a fan you would start to wonder why he had to blast'em like that. I much preferred the Garvin Stomp to the chops.

I was a huge UWF fan - so when One Man Gang came to the WWF after being UWF champ I was so excited when he was going to take on Hulk Hogan at the Cap Centre. Needless to say he was slammed/legdrop/pinned the first match. Pretty much knew then the UWF OMG wasn't going to be much in WWF. Usually new challengers got a rematch or two. Which was a shame because for such an enormous human being that dude could move. The 747 splash looked like it could kill you. Hated the whole Akeem thing too, since it was so clearly just a shot at Dusty Rhodes. Funny that Rhodes himself would arrive soon after.

Rugged Ronnie Garvin also had that Garvin stomp, where he would stomp on your arms, legs, torso, & head in a pattern. Randy Orton did that for a while until he became a face, though they never credited it to Ronnie. That McMahon holds some grudges. Another stiff wrestler I always liked and didn't mention was Bret Hart's old tag team partner and brother in law, Jim "The Anvil" Niedhart. Who for some explicable reason was part of creating the lovely Natie (Natalia) who obviously, got her looks from her mom's side (same thing for Randy Orton, his dad was one raw-boned SOB-even moreso in his old age).

DallasBlack wrote:

Injury is something that's going to happen but doesn't mean you should intentionally try to hurt you're opponent.

Of course but most stiff wrestler know what they can do and can't, they no where to stop. It's not like the Nasty Boys were injuring people left and right like Ahmen Johnson did, who was not only stiff but also extremely careless (one of the reasons why his career was short-lived) or Mark Henry who for a very long time had the same reputation. While guys like Flair never injured anybody seriously with their stiff chops.

DallasBlack wrote:

(same thing for Randy Orton, his dad was one raw-boned SOB-even moreso in his old age).

It's not like Randy is good looking, in fact he's just staring from my TV and he's ugly, very, very ugly, with a look that i like to call a "russian rapist" look. I can't stand to even look at him.

On Natalya it's true, can't believe that the crazy looking Jim is her father, though she has exactly the same evil laugh

ShadowAngel wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Injury is something that's going to happen but doesn't mean you should intentionally try to hurt you're opponent.

Of course but most stiff wrestler know what they can do and can't, they no where to stop. It's not like the Nasty Boys were injuring people left and right like Ahmen Johnson did, who was not only stiff but also extremely careless (one of the reasons why his career was short-lived) or Mark Henry who for a very long time had the same reputation. While guys like Flair never injured anybody seriously with their stiff chops.

DallasBlack wrote:

(same thing for Randy Orton, his dad was one raw-boned SOB-even moreso in his old age).

It's not like Randy is good looking, in fact he's just staring from my TV and he's ugly, very, very ugly, with a look that i like to call a "russian rapist" look. I can't stand to even look at him.

On Natalya it's true, can't believe that the crazy looking Jim is her father, though she has exactly the same evil laugh

Agreed on your first reply. Though many of the Nasty Boys opponents were almost never severly injured (though it did happen), that doesn't change the fact that they were sometimes quite sloppy in their matches (as was Sid Vicious, whom I also liked to watch despite his reputation). With Hart's comments, you have to remember that Flair and Hart don't like each other (although they did put on some good matches together in the past) and that Flair badmouthed Hart in his book before he badmouthed Flair in his. So with those guys you have to take both their words with a grain of salt.

As for the comment about Orton, I'm just basting my comment on other people's opinions I've heard and read. I don't find him or any other man attractive (not a homophobic comment, I really find guys ugly-even myself ).

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Wasnt he pulled from TV?

Addy wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Wasnt he pulled from TV?

Based on Dallas' comments, apparently he was; Vince thinks he's too sloppy in the ring.

I think it's better for his career anyway. Let him get more experience via practice in the "minors" and then reintroduce him as the monster heel he should have been in the first place.

tohostudios wrote:

Addy wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I was really hoping Brodus Clay was going to be the next big, kickass villain. But nope, we get the second coming of The Godfather instead.

Wasnt he pulled from TV?

Based on Dallas' comments, apparently he was; Vince thinks he's too sloppy in the ring.

I think it's better for his career anyway. Let him get more experience via practice in the "minors" and then reintroduce him as the monster heel he should have been in the first place.

No such luck. The offspring of Flash Funk and The Godfather is back tonight.

DallasBlack wrote:

Agreed on your first reply. Though many of the Nasty Boys opponents were almost never severly injured (though it did happen), that doesn't change the fact that they were sometimes quite sloppy in their matches (as was Sid Vicious, whom I also liked to watch despite his reputation). With Hart's comments, you have to remember that Flair and Hart don't like each other (although they did put on some good matches together in the past) and that Flair badmouthed Hart in his book before he badmouthed Flair in his. So with those guys you have to take both their words with a grain of salt.

I think Sid Justice never was a bad worker, his reputation comes from the scissor accident with Arn Anderson on a flight to some PPV, where he took a pair of scissors and threatened to kill Arn. Otherwise, i never read anything negative about him, if anything he injured himself quite a bit (i only need to mention WCW Greed)
In some ways i get the impression that people just became soft. The newer generation clashes with the older generation who wasn't as "kitten" and "emo" as the people today or 10 years ago. It's the same in the NHL. 20 years ago Goons were common, fighting was common, blood, hard hits, that was what hockey was all about. Today? Kronwall takes a clean hit at an opponent and 5 players from that team surrounds him and later it's all crying and smurf poo and on Hockey message boards users cry about that 'evil hit' and there are discussions about fighting having no place in hockey anymore.

About Bret and Flair: Bret seems to be quite a bitter old man. It's interesting to read all the wrestling biographies out on the market and how the contradict one another. Dynamite Kid in his book wrote about him, Junkyard Dog and Bret doing Crack while Bret in his Biography wrote that he never did hard drugs but adultery was his drug and goes on to say that cheating on his wife was lot less 'bad' as doing drugs, while there are stories that for a joke Bret while on a Tour with the WWF spiked the drink of his brother Owen (who never did drugs) with some drug and laughed his ass off as Owen stumbled around. After reading his biography and also reading the Owen Hart stories in a german wrestling magazine (the publisher of the magazine was a very close friend of Owen and several other wrestlers) i lost all respect for the Hitman (he still has one of the most awesome theme songs ever, the 2011 remix was awful though)

DallasBlack wrote:

As for the comment about Orton, I'm just basting my comment on other people's opinions I've heard and read. I don't find him or any other man attractive (not a homophobic comment, I really find guys ugly-even myself ).

That's OK, i'm a woman and i don't like 99% of the "style" that is common today, the emo look, the douchebag look, i hate it all, i think that Shawn Michaels was the last decent looking guy in WWE. Triple H may come second but the newer guys, Miz, Swagger, Del Rio, CM Punk (though one of my favourite wrestlers because he's awesome) or Bryan Danielson (again, i love him as a wrestler, been following him since his ROH days) i don't like the look. I'd rather go with the Ultimate Warrior, Maxx Payne (he's metal, that's great) or Owen Hart than anyone of those guys from today

The stroke Hitman suffered a while back may have something to do with his attitude:

Quote :

On June 24, 2002, Bret Hart suffered a stroke after hitting his head in a bicycle accident. The Calgary Herald reported that Hart hit a pothole, flew over the handlebars of the bike, and landed on the back of his head. Hart suffered total paralysis on his left side, which required months of physical therapy. Hart has since recovered much of his mobility and is in good health, although he suffers from an emotional imbalance and other lasting effects common to stroke survivors. Hart wrote in detail about his stroke in his autobiography, Hitman: My Real Life In The Cartoon World of Wrestling.[208] Hart later became a spokesperson for March of Dimes Canada's Stroke Recovery Canada program.