WWF/WWE/ECW/WCW

You know ShadowAngel, I realized what our disscussions remind me of. Ever watch the webshow Chairshot Reality on Wrestlezone.com? If so, we're like the hosts Josh Isenberg and Justin LaBar. Seldom agreeing, always arguing, never budging. Just like those two we could argue wrestling til we're blue in the mouth. Luckiy we're seperated by an ocean and the limits of a disscussion board.

I'm still not happy with the squash match, but some Analysts put it in a way that takes the sting out of it:

Josh Isenberg: "Bryan will have a chance to seek revenge, but does this make him lose credibility? I do not think so, due to how the crowd got behind him instantly. That sign will tell Vince that Bryan is a heel who really builds off of others' success. He will do this again."

Chris Cash: "I think the reason WWE went with Sheamus beating Daniel Bryan for the WHC in such fashion was three-fold:

1) To start WM 28 off with a surprise, a bang.
2) To continue the streak of decisive victories for Sheamus.
3) To give Daniel Bryan more ammunition to work with developing his heel character.

They succeeded on all accounts.

I am aware most fans were looking forward to an actual match and the fact that these two men got dropped from the 'Mania card last year only intensifies those feelings. However, wrestling is STORYLINE driven and I think this result can only help Bryan and Sheamus in that regard.

Daniel Bryan will be fine. His support from the live crowd last night proves that he's over. He lost by a fluke and he now gets to put it over that way. Sheamus gets his time on top. WWE made up for the lack of "wrestling" in their match later on in the night.

I wasn't as disappointed by this finish as others, so long as they follow up well with both men."

As long as that squash was for a greater reason and not just to slight the IWC (Internet Wrestling Community) and the non-WWE made stars. What happens on Monday night RAW or Smackdown! will determine which is the case.

I guessed most of the matches correctly,

It was funny that one of those Chairshot guys predicted at the beginning of the year that Teddy Long would lose his GMship of Smackdown

I knew the Taker was gonna win, not happy about it, Actually I should call him Santa Clause as he works 1 day a year. Happy that Shaemus won, Big Show won, Knew the Rock was gonna beat Cena, knew Team Johnny was gonna win (not happy bout that either)

Yeah, Undertaker only shows up once a year, but his body couldn't take it anymore. He's pretty much like Andre was in his last years, a special attraction only brought out on special occasions. Like him or not (I do), Undertaker is one of the main reasons people watch Wrestlemania and it makes sense to use him very little to prolong the amount of WM's he can be a part of.

Just watching A-Train's re-debut as Lord Tensai and even though it is obvious who it is, Lawler and Cole don't seem to recognize him. I find that to be utterly rediculous and it's kind of pissing me off that they continue to act like they've never seen him before.

Also he crushed Alex Riley which shows you that he must have pissed someone off. Last year he was constantly defeating his former mentor, The Miz in matches and now after a long time of no TV appearences, he shows up just to be squashed. I smell future endevor.

This is bizzare. A man dies during Wrestlemania after being chocked out by his 14 year old cousin after they were wrestling:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/252529-report-man-dies-while-watching-wrestlemania-28-choked-out-by-cousin

Even if they're trying to bury DB, I don't think the fans are going to allow that. Here is a report on what happened after RAW:

Quote :

Bryan was given the hero’s welcome and came out with a huge grin on his face. It looked just like what the man needed. Throughout the match everyone was chanting yes to every move Bryan did. All the competitors saw the funny side of it and Big Show kept playing on it by mimicking Bryan on the apron. Ultimately Sheamus got the win again over Bryan which gave Sheamus more boo’s.

The night finished with Bryan being able to take the microphone. He explained that WrestleMania was the worst night in his career but because of the fans they might give him a new T-Shirt. He ordered AJ out of the ring and laughed about it with the fans and thanked them so much. It was a lovely moment and one that I’m sure Bryan won’t forget easily.

To have your name chanted throughout the biggest event of them all and throughout the RAW the night afterwards speaks volumes about how much this man is respected by the fans and if the reactions continue we could be looking at another uprising such as Punk of last year. Bryan deserves all the success he gets and I hope that this was not just a Miami isolated incident. If your attending the next few events then please make sure that this support is shown again! Show WWE that this man should be given a better platform to show his talents.

BTW, in case anybody wonders why I keep talking wrestling here (apart from the fact this thread would only be a few pages) despite the fact very few HoMers watch or care about wrestling instead of going to a wrestling message board. Because of how posters there act (almost as bad as youtubers):

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=3816470#post3816470

Just need to read the second post to see how immature those guys are.

I had joined that forum and posted 3 times and gotten a "Warning" for length of my posts it was no one worder or anything like that. So I said screw it never went back. they suck!

I like wrestling so I am glad to see this thread with some life. Gives me a few peeps to chat rasslin with

Yeah I think that was ridiculous that they acted like they didnt know it was Albert. Probably to put over the new character I suppose...

I liked Taker back in the day but now he needs to just stop, I think it takes away from his legacy.

I think Alex Riley was in either Dark Matches or on Superstars but hes not getting any kind of push. I think personally hes more talented than Alberto Del Sucko.

Addy wrote:

I had joined that forum and posted 3 times and gotten a "Warning" for length of my posts it was no one worder or anything like that. So I said screw it never went back. they suck!

I like wrestling so I am glad to see this thread with some life. Gives me a few peeps to chat rasslin with

Yeah I think that was ridiculous that they acted like they didnt know it was Albert. Probably to put over the new character I suppose...

I liked Taker back in the day but now he needs to just stop, I think it takes away from his legacy.

I think Alex Riley was in either Dark Matches or on Superstars but hes not getting any kind of push. I think personally hes more talented than Alberto Del Sucko.

For sure. ADS is not a bad in ring performer, but he is so one dementional and boring. "It is my destiny!"

As for the Albert thing, what was most annoying is them saying 'we've never seen someone like this before'. Even if they recognized him, that monster character has been done many times under many names.

Funny that with all the flaming on that forum, you get warnings for post length. I still read them when the wrestling news is slow, but I never feel like going on there. The one time I did I told them that if they cuss at me I would ignore them (never had any replies to my posts).

I'm glad this thread is here too, I enjoy talking and watching wrestling. Mostly talking it because watching it seems to be a bore these days. I long fr the days of just MATCHES and ringside interviews after the match. Those days a gone tho....

As for Sheamus, I've always liked him but feel he works better as a ruthless heel. Same with Jericho. Heel Jericho is the best.

A-Train, non-impressive to me. Looks like he would get winded pretty quick in the ring. A small guy like Riley could beat him if they made him chase him around. Soon as he gets tired he's done.

There's talk of a CM Punk/Lord A-Train fued. I just dont see how he can keep up with Punk

DallasBlack wrote:

Just watching A-Train's re-debut as Lord Tensai and even though it is obvious who it is, Lawler and Cole don't seem to recognize him. I find that to be utterly rediculous and it's kind of pissing me off that they continue to act like they've never seen him before.

So you're watching Wrestling only since yesterday?
Commentators always behave this weirdly. You can see this with Run-Ins too, the music starts (something i really dislike, a run-in shouldn't start with the wrestler's entrance theme, it's stupid and doesn't make much sense) everybody knows who'll come out, yet the commentators are "What? Who is that?" "Who is coming now?"

Same with returning wrestler, despite a new gimmick, you can most of the time see who it is. I can understand it if the wrestler previously wore a mask but not otherwise.
But then again, the WWE commentators are horrible

And A-Train looks a bit stupid now, seeing him first i thought a car ran over his face only later realizing it's not tire marks but writing. Looks like someone in creative team saw an old WWF show with Hakushi and thought it would be an awesome idea to recreated that look.

DallasBlack wrote:

Yeah, Undertaker only shows up once a year, but his body couldn't take it anymore. He's pretty much like Andre was in his last years, a special attraction only brought out on special occasions.
Like him or not (I do), Undertaker is one of the main reasons people watch Wrestlemania and it makes sense to use him very little to prolong the amount of WM's he can be a part of.

The problem is that Undertaker wastes away a lot of time. Every time when he's ready to return, there are promo videos, in-ring promos and other stuff, the Undertaker really doesn't need anymore. Give him one video package to announce his return, done.
I some ways he is just like Hulk Hogan: He doesn't realise that his time is over, that he should step back. Instead of clinching on to the spotlight and winning all Wrestlemania matches he has, he should've started to feud and losing against younger guys. Just imagine if at this Wrestlemania someone...let's say Alberto Del Rio, CM Punk, Danielson or Sheamus had a match against the Undertaker and defeated him, it would've pushed this Wrestler to the very top.

And even if you want to have the Undertaker undefeated until the very end, keep it simple and don't waste away 40 minutes on him that should be used to get the younger guys over with the crowd.

Quote :

So you're watching Wrestling only since yesterday?

I know that, but it doesn't make it any less annoying. BTW, I don't blame the announcers. Vince McMahon is responsible for most of what they say (particularly Cole). Vince sends them these lines.

Agree about entrance music on run-ins, totally stupid.

Undertaker, BTW does want someone to end his streak, wrestling insiders and pepole close to him have stated this many times. However, Vince doesn't want the streak to end and Undertaker is a company man and goes along with it. I understand since you don't like his matches that you want them short. However, the majority of wrestling fans, anylists (sic), and critics enjoy and praise his matches and as long as it makes money and people keep talking about his matches, it will continue.

DallasBlack wrote:

I know that, but it doesn't make it any less annoying. BTW, I don't blame the announcers. Vince McMahon is responsible for most of what they say (particularly Cole). Vince sends them these lines.

I don't really believe this, because it's usually also said that the commentators had more freedom "back in the day" but Lawler basically says the same 50 lines since 15 years and Cole is as clueless as he was back in 1999 (commentating that horrible Wrestlemania XV)
The stupid behaviour is something they come up with.
I've once seen a script for a Raw Show and it was really just "Next Match is this guy vs. that guy" and then points like "- talk about the story between those two" "-Hype wrestler A and talk about his past" and such.
I guess because they know that neither Lawler, Cole nor Booker T. are really good commentators and need some help. Thing is that forced lines and memos aren't a good thing. They started this in WCW and Tony Shiavone turned from a pretty good commentator (who he was in the 80's and early 90's) to a complete moron (and it never put any butts in the seat )

The commentators are really bad (they are as bad as our german WWE commentators, the one guy does this job for about 20 years now and still doesn't know the difference between a Side Suplex and a Belly-to-Belly Suplex) and the more classic wrestling i watch, the more i marvel about Gordon Solie (he was really the best) and Jim Ross from then and how awesome they were or Jim Cornette who is a very good Color Commentator.

Gordon Solie was awesome! Not only did he call the moves, he added all kinds of emotion to matches. I bought a Best Of The Cage matches DVD and there's a match between Tully Blanchard and Magnum TA with Solie on commentary. His commentary totally makes the viewing experience.

ShadowAngel wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

I know that, but it doesn't make it any less annoying. BTW, I don't blame the announcers. Vince McMahon is responsible for most of what they say (particularly Cole). Vince sends them these lines.

I don't really believe this, because it's usually also said that the commentators had more freedom "back in the day" but Lawler basically says the same 50 lines since 15 years and Cole is as clueless as he was back in 1999 (commentating that horrible Wrestlemania XV)
The stupid behaviour is something they come up with.
I've once seen a script for a Raw Show and it was really just "Next Match is this guy vs. that guy" and then points like "- talk about the story between those two" "-Hype wrestler A and talk about his past" and such.
I guess because they know that neither Lawler, Cole nor Booker T. are really good commentators and need some help. Thing is that forced lines and memos aren't a good thing. They started this in WCW and Tony Shiavone turned from a pretty good commentator (who he was in the 80's and early 90's) to a complete moron (and it never put any butts in the seat )

The commentators are really bad (they are as bad as our german WWE commentators, the one guy does this job for about 20 years now and still doesn't know the difference between a Side Suplex and a Belly-to-Belly Suplex) and the more classic wrestling i watch, the more i marvel about Gordon Solie (he was really the best) and Jim Ross from then and how awesome they were or Jim Cornette who is a very good Color Commentator.

Yeah, the commentators do suck but the stuff about Vince feeding them lines is something that has been said by wrestling insiders and I find it pretty believable but only in Cole's case as it explains why he's still around. JR is not someone Vince can manipulate which is one of the theories of why he's no longer full time and only brought out once in a blue moon to please the fans. Insiders say McMahon doesn't like that JR knows more about wrestling than him and think that he's too much of a relic from the past (i.e. he's not one of the 'beautiful' people, another reason I believe Cole is a Vince puppet, as he isn't either and is [to steal one of his catchphrases] such a goof). King has gotten stale over the years, but I believe that's because he doesn't have JR there anymore. But generally because he is no longer a heel (I didn't like him when he was but I've come to appreciate how funny he used to be).

The two commentators that get the nod as the best of all time are JR and Solie. However, I haven't been exposed to much Solie so I'm a JR guy (those two are like The Beatles and The Stones of wrestling commentary). I also agree about Cornette and I also include Heyman and Joey Styles as good commentators as well. Though not quite at the level of Solie or JR, two of my favoirtes were Gorilla and Bobby as they were a great commentary team who played off each other real well, and Heenan is probably the funniest man to ever work in the wrestling business. To a lesser extent, Gorilla and Jesse were a good team too.

tohostudios wrote:

Gordon Solie was awesome! Not only did he call the moves, he added all kinds of emotion to matches. I bought a Best Of The Cage matches DVD and there's a match between Tully Blanchard and Magnum TA with Solie on commentary. His commentary totally makes the viewing experience.

Yep!

I also like Gorilla and Heenan but I think for mostly sentimental reasons. "Gimme a break, Brain"... "He just got Pearl Harbored". Typlical Moonson but I loved him.

DallasBlack wrote:

ShadowAngel wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

I know that, but it doesn't make it any less annoying. BTW, I don't blame the announcers. Vince McMahon is responsible for most of what they say (particularly Cole). Vince sends them these lines.

I don't really believe this, because it's usually also said that the commentators had more freedom "back in the day" but Lawler basically says the same 50 lines since 15 years and Cole is as clueless as he was back in 1999 (commentating that horrible Wrestlemania XV)
The stupid behaviour is something they come up with.
I've once seen a script for a Raw Show and it was really just "Next Match is this guy vs. that guy" and then points like "- talk about the story between those two" "-Hype wrestler A and talk about his past" and such.
I guess because they know that neither Lawler, Cole nor Booker T. are really good commentators and need some help. Thing is that forced lines and memos aren't a good thing. They started this in WCW and Tony Shiavone turned from a pretty good commentator (who he was in the 80's and early 90's) to a complete moron (and it never put any butts in the seat )

The commentators are really bad (they are as bad as our german WWE commentators, the one guy does this job for about 20 years now and still doesn't know the difference between a Side Suplex and a Belly-to-Belly Suplex) and the more classic wrestling i watch, the more i marvel about Gordon Solie (he was really the best) and Jim Ross from then and how awesome they were or Jim Cornette who is a very good Color Commentator.

Yeah, the commentators do suck but the stuff about Vince feeding them lines is something that has been said by wrestling insiders and I find it pretty believable but only in Cole's case as it explains why he's still around. JR is not someone Vince can manipulate which is one of the theories of why he's no longer full time and only brought out once in a blue moon to please the fans. Insiders say McMahon doesn't like that JR knows more about wrestling than him and think that he's too much of a relic from the past (i.e. he's not one of the 'beautiful' people, another reason I believe Cole is a Vince puppet, as he isn't either and is [to steal one of his catchphrases] such a goof). King has gotten stale over the years, but I believe that's because he doesn't have JR there anymore. But generally because he is no longer a heel (I didn't like him when he was but I've come to appreciate how funny he used to be).

The two commentators that get the nod as the best of all time are JR and Solie. However, I haven't been exposed to much Solie so I'm a JR guy (those two are like The Beatles and The Stones of wrestling commentary). I also agree about Cornette and I also include Heyman and Joey Styles as good commentators as well. Though not quite at the level of Solie or JR, two of my favoirtes were Gorilla and Bobby as they were a great commentary team who played off each other real well, and Heenan is probably the funniest man to ever work in the wrestling business. To a lesser extent, Gorilla and Jesse were a good team too.

Heenan was hilarious, often unintentionally so. I thought Joey Styles was good too for ECW but I'm not sure how his style would translate to another organization.

By the way, if you get a chance, check this out. Some funny stuff!

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/newinductions.html

DallasBlack wrote:

Addy wrote:

I had joined that forum and posted 3 times and gotten a "Warning" for length of my posts it was no one worder or anything like that. So I said screw it never went back. they suck!

I like wrestling so I am glad to see this thread with some life. Gives me a few peeps to chat rasslin with

Yeah I think that was ridiculous that they acted like they didnt know it was Albert. Probably to put over the new character I suppose...

I liked Taker back in the day but now he needs to just stop, I think it takes away from his legacy.

I think Alex Riley was in either Dark Matches or on Superstars but hes not getting any kind of push. I think personally hes more talented than Alberto Del Sucko.

For sure. ADS is not a bad in ring performer, but he is so one dementional and boring. "It is my destiny!"

As for the Albert thing, what was most annoying is them saying 'we've never seen someone like this before'. Even if they recognized him, that monster character has been done many times under many names.

Funny that with all the flaming on that forum, you get warnings for post length. I still read them when the wrestling news is slow, but I never feel like going on there. The one time I did I told them that if they cuss at me I would ignore them (never had any replies to my posts).

Definitly 1 Dimension, my biggest problem is they were pushing this guy since before his debut hes nothing special. Hes no Jericho, or UT, or HHH or HBK or Edge. Oooo I miss Edge

One thing I miss are stables just throwing that out there

I really am not a fan of the Miz as a heel Id like to see him as a face I think he's got potential to go far and he was on his way too. I used to not be able to stand him at all. I was reading about something Epico and Primo were bitching and moaning that they were on the pre show and not the ppv as every title was on the line. If I were him id be happy i was a part of it.

Addy wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Addy wrote:

I had joined that forum and posted 3 times and gotten a "Warning" for length of my posts it was no one worder or anything like that. So I said screw it never went back. they suck!

I like wrestling so I am glad to see this thread with some life. Gives me a few peeps to chat rasslin with

Yeah I think that was ridiculous that they acted like they didnt know it was Albert. Probably to put over the new character I suppose...

I liked Taker back in the day but now he needs to just stop, I think it takes away from his legacy.

I think Alex Riley was in either Dark Matches or on Superstars but hes not getting any kind of push. I think personally hes more talented than Alberto Del Sucko.

For sure. ADS is not a bad in ring performer, but he is so one dementional and boring. "It is my destiny!"

As for the Albert thing, what was most annoying is them saying 'we've never seen someone like this before'. Even if they recognized him, that monster character has been done many times under many names.

Funny that with all the flaming on that forum, you get warnings for post length. I still read them when the wrestling news is slow, but I never feel like going on there. The one time I did I told them that if they cuss at me I would ignore them (never had any replies to my posts).

Definitly 1 Dimension, my biggest problem is they were pushing this guy since before his debut hes nothing special. Hes no Jericho, or UT, or HHH or HBK or Edge. Oooo I miss Edge

One thing I miss are stables just throwing that out there

I really am not a fan of the Miz as a heel Id like to see him as a face I think he's got potential to go far and he was on his way too. I used to not be able to stand him at all. I was reading about something Epico and Primo were bitching and moaning that they were on the pre show and not the ppv as every title was on the line. If I were him id be happy i was a part of it.

Everybody knows WWE thinks less of the tag team division than the divas (and with Natalya's fart gimmick & Cole's fat jokes about her from a while back you can see they don't care much about that division either), so what do the Colons expect?

I too agree about the Miz, he needs to become a face, because I don't buy him as Mr. Tough Guy. He has upped his intensity in his matches but it just doesn't fit him and I still don't understand why he is praised so much as I find his matches average at best. His best work is on the mic but for me, that's not enough to get me behind a wrestler.

One guy I used to not like but has grown considerably on me is Ziggler. That guy is an amazing performer and much more deserving of a top spot than Miz. I at first hated his cocky character but he's done a great job with it (he just needs to dump Vicky as I'm getting tired of her). Him, DB, Cody Rhodes, and Kofi deserve more than they get.

Another guy everybody loves, but I just don't get is Zak Ryder. He is too goofy, average in the ring, and just plain annoying. Maybe I'll rethink my opinion of him but as of now, I just don'g get it. I'm more of a Miz fan than a 'Broski' fan.

tohostudios wrote:

Heenan was hilarious, often unintentionally so. I thought Joey Styles was good too for ECW but I'm not sure how his style would translate to another organization.

Joey Styles was commentator for WWE Raw during 2005 and 2006, it didn't really work. I think Styles is completely overrated, his "Oh my God" has gotten stale by the third time he croaked it out.

Speaking of other commentators: I really like Gorilla Monsoon and Jesse Ventura, Ventura was a great commentator playing a very good Heel (and Hogan hater) which worked really well with Monsoon's style.
Monsoon and Heenan are Ok.
The problem with Heenan is, he is a pure entertainment commentator, he has his one-liners and his stupid jokes and the hate on Hogan but he never really commentated a match, he never really talked about what was going on inside the Ring and without Monsoon, he and his one-liners were completely lost (like during his WCW days, didn't help that he also was drunk most of the time)
He was still better than the later idiots at WCW (Scott Hudson, Stevie Ray, Mark Madden...) and of course also better then Vince McMahon who couldn't name any moves, instead calling everything "whatamaneuver" or "awesome maneuver" or a "Biiiiiig Booooodyyyydrooooooopppp!"

DallasBlack wrote:

One guy I used to not like but has grown considerably on me is Ziggler. That guy is an amazing performer and much more deserving of a top spot than Miz. I at first hated his cocky character but he's done a great job with it (he just needs to dump Vicky as I'm getting tired of her). Him, DB, Cody Rhodes, and Kofi deserve more than they get.

I hope the world doesn't explode now but finally we can agree on something

Can't have a discussion about great commentators and not include Lance Russell.

jstate wrote:

Can't have a discussion about great commentators and not include Lance Russell.

Loved Lance Russell. I lived about 50 mile from Memphis in the late 80s so I saw the live Saturday morning wrestling show every week. The highlight of those years was the whole Andy Kauffman schtick. That was simply brilliant and entertaining TV. Kauffman went from "Intergender Champion" pinning women to "wrestling" Jerry Lawler. All with Lance's commentary.