Wikipedia deletes Ultimatum!

Someone just informed me that Ultimatum was removed from Wikipedia because "No notability and seems like self advertising."

What the heck? We didn't even created that page. How is it self advertising? They also stated that we were never on an "important" indie label and that labels like Massacre (Mechanics of Perilous Times), Rowe Productions (Puppet of Destruction) and Retroactive Records (Into the Pit, Lex Metalis) don't count!?

That website is really screwy. I tend to have a feeling that someone that doesn't like "christian" bands had a personal vendetta to get the page removed. It seems really fishy to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ultimatum_%28American_band%29



And sure enough, a little investigation and there it is:

Deleted
Basileias (talk) 17:35, 20 November 2011 (UTC) "No notability and seems like self advertising. "
Clicked on his profile to read: This user is a former Christian.

Hmmm...

Wow, that's really a load of crap.

I don't even think "he who shall not be mentioned" but is also a former Christian would go that far.

Now I'm gonna go investigate and see if it's just Ultimatum or have other Christian bands been deleted.

Once Dead and Temple of Blood are still there.

What do you know, the same admin deleted the page someone created about me as well. I don't really care about that all that much, but it just adds to my suspicion.

found lack of sources and there is no evidence of significance. More along the lines of advertising self. Basileias (talk) 17:12, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Delete or Redirect to Ultimatum (band) if that article gets kept. There's no significant coverage about this singer. I did find this mention. -- Whpq (talk) 15:12, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Delete - No mention in Google news, books, scholar, or images. Bigbird6 (talk) 00:25, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


Funny, I did a quick google search on Scott Waters Ulitmatum and found a TON of articles and photos, including a GOOGLE NEWS ARTICLE:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=71JIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IP4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=1765,9477515&dq=scott-waters+ultimatum&hl=en

ultmetal wrote:

Once Dead and Temple of Blood are still there.

What do you know, the same admin deleted the page someone created about me as well. I don't really care about that all that much, but it just adds to my suspicion.

found lack of sources and there is no evidence of significance. More along the lines of advertising self. Basileias (talk) 17:12, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Delete or Redirect to Ultimatum (band) if that article gets kept. There's no significant coverage about this singer. I did find this mention. -- Whpq (talk) 15:12, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Delete - No mention in Google news, books, scholar, or images. Bigbird6 (talk) 00:25, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


Funny, I did a quick google search on Scott Waters Ulitmatum and found a TON of articles and photos, including a GOOGLE NEWS ARTICLE:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=71JIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IP4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=1765,9477515&dq=scott-waters+ultimatum&hl=en

Yeah, I found quite a few Christian bands that still have pages there. I guess the good news is that this person doesn't necessarily have a bias against Christian bands but the bad news is that, for whatever reason, he apparently has one against you.

as promotional manager to both Ultimatum and Mortification,Wonrowe Vision and Rowe Productions;i wanted to talk to Scott and get his take. so,we spoke about this by phone for a few minutes.its obvious to us that the wikipedia employee has a vandetta against Christian metal bands/musicans/labels that have been in the scene for 20 yrs or more.urging all fans who wish to see Ultimatum and Rowe Productions to return to this information source to send their comments of disapproval to wikipedia! thanks for your support!

tohostudios wrote:

Wow, that's really a load of crap.

I don't even think "he who shall not be mentioned" but is also a former Christian would go that far.

I'm curious. as to who this is.

Someone deleted the Shock Totem page once for similar reasons, basically saying we weren't notable in any way. It was nonsense of course. All these morons do behind the scenes is make judgment calls based on whether or not they know about the subject.

So what you need to do is recreate the entire page, make any kind of "popular" connection you can make. Then you need to add a Notes and References section, where you then link interviews, news articles, etc. Anything that'll basically prove to whatever Johnny-suck-lately comes along thinking he or she knows better.

Then copy and save the code. That way if they delete it again, you can just re-add it.

And why didn't I see a post about this little flexi-disc that was put out in September? Pffft!

Eyesore wrote:

And why didn't I see a post about this little flexi-disc that was put out in September? Pffft!

The flexi STILL has not been released.

Eyesore wrote:

Someone deleted the Shock Totem page once for similar reasons, basically saying we weren't notable in any way. It was nonsense of course. All these morons do behind the scenes is make judgment calls based on whether or not they know about the subject.

So what you need to do is recreate the entire page, make any kind of "popular" connection you can make. Then you need to add a Notes and References section, where you then link interviews, news articles, etc. Anything that'll basically prove to whatever Johnny-suck-lately comes along thinking he or she knows better.

Then copy and save the code. That way if they delete it again, you can just re-add it.

One of the moderators there actually listed Massacre Records and they basically ignored it.

I am really saddened that it has come to this. I don't really care what a band plays, call it Christian metal or whatever but to say that their contributions are not notable to the music scene and yet wikipedia has in some cases not even pages but stubs of pages about bands with a far shorter and (I would dare say in the context) less notable legacy.

I can't believe the nerve of anyone really contending that a band is not notable enough or that the information is for promotional purposes. The latter especially is a fine line if you will because if you read about a band, in a sense that is a promotional activity but it draws the line in that Wikipedia and other sites like say, metal-archives don't say BUY THIS ALBUM or THIS IS THE BEST BAND EVER type stuff.

I think metalheads know where to go for information. I admit to using wikipedia from time to time for biographical info on bands but at the same time I also use BNRMetal and Metal-Archives a lot to get a sense for the band, especially to get information on albums they have released.

ultmetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Someone deleted the Shock Totem page once for similar reasons, basically saying we weren't notable in any way. It was nonsense of course. All these morons do behind the scenes is make judgment calls based on whether or not they know about the subject.

So what you need to do is recreate the entire page, make any kind of "popular" connection you can make. Then you need to add a Notes and References section, where you then link interviews, news articles, etc. Anything that'll basically prove to whatever Johnny-suck-lately comes along thinking he or she knows better.

Then copy and save the code. That way if they delete it again, you can just re-add it.

One of the moderators there actually listed Massacre Records and they basically ignored it.

Yup. You can't beat them that way, though. You simply have to create a page that basically covers every angle.

ultmetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

And why didn't I see a post about this little flexi-disc that was put out in September? Pffft!

The flexi STILL has not been released.

Ah. Well, be sure to let us know if that changes. =)

Eyesore wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Someone deleted the Shock Totem page once for similar reasons, basically saying we weren't notable in any way. It was nonsense of course. All these morons do behind the scenes is make judgment calls based on whether or not they know about the subject.

So what you need to do is recreate the entire page, make any kind of "popular" connection you can make. Then you need to add a Notes and References section, where you then link interviews, news articles, etc. Anything that'll basically prove to whatever Johnny-suck-lately comes along thinking he or she knows better.

Then copy and save the code. That way if they delete it again, you can just re-add it.

One of the moderators there actually listed Massacre Records and they basically ignored it.

Yup. You can't beat them that way, though. You simply have to create a page that basically covers every angle.

I don't really know how. I didn't have anything to do with the page that had been up there for years. Oh well.

This mindless page editing/deletion activity helps to erode wiki as a complete reliable source of info.

Isn't this the same principle as what you would get if a librarian at a bricks and mortar library tore a page out of the multi-volume encyclopedia set? - because he/she disagreed with the article. This reeks of Stalinism ... eeeek.

Wikipedia needs a true guardian, someone like Conan the Librarian for the 21st century modern information database:

ultmetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Someone deleted the Shock Totem page once for similar reasons, basically saying we weren't notable in any way. It was nonsense of course. All these morons do behind the scenes is make judgment calls based on whether or not they know about the subject.

So what you need to do is recreate the entire page, make any kind of "popular" connection you can make. Then you need to add a Notes and References section, where you then link interviews, news articles, etc. Anything that'll basically prove to whatever Johnny-suck-lately comes along thinking he or she knows better.

Then copy and save the code. That way if they delete it again, you can just re-add it.

One of the moderators there actually listed Massacre Records and they basically ignored it.

Yup. You can't beat them that way, though. You simply have to create a page that basically covers every angle.

I don't really know how. I didn't have anything to do with the page that had been up there for years. Oh well.

Creating a page is a pain in the ass. Haha.

I put a restore request in:
Hello, I am a Wikipedia viewer and use the site quite often. I am not
a moderator and never edit any page, so forgive me if I am doing this
incorrectly. I noticed that the Ultimatum (band) page for the American
Heavy Metal Band, Ultimatum was deleted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ultimatum_%28American_band%29
Apparently the band was taken down because, "WP:MUSIC#5 - "Has released
two or more albums on a major label or on one of the more important
indie labels."

Ultimatum have released records on Massacre Records, Rowe Productions
and Retroactive Records. Anyone with even the remotest knowledge of the
Christian metal genre which they are a part of would know that these
are well known and respected labels. Retroactive Records is an active
label with a roster that includes some very well known names in the CCM
and Christian Metal genre including Deliverance, Bride, Saint, among
many others. Rowe Productions was a label with major U.S. distribution
through the Diamante Music Group. To say these are not an "important
indie labels" would be an poor judgment call or show clear ignorance of
the music genre.

As well, the band has a 20 year history, has performed all over the
country and have been on many, many compilation albums on several
different labels. They have five full lengths albums out and an EP. If
the administrators that deleted the band are not familiar with Christian
metal, then I respectfully ask that they not make judgement calls on
what "important indie labels" are for that genre.

A quick search on Google under Ultimatum metal, Ultimatum Christian
metal, Ultimatum heavy metal, or any similar title reveals a long list
of articles and photos, including articles for the Associated Press: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=71JIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IP4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=1765,9477515&dq=scott-waters+ultimatum&hl=en

Ultimatum is included in the well known printed book Collector's
Guide to Heavy Metal by Martin Popoff, as well as just about every heavy
metal website out there including such well known sites as
Metal-Archives, BNRMetal, nolifetilmetal.com, AllMusic.com, Amazon.com,
etc. Ultimatum has been featured on the cover of HM Magazine as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hm_magazine

Can you please restore the Ultimatum page. -Ultmetal (talk) 02:43, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Very cool.

Well that didn't work to well. I created an account under ultmetal and within an hour my account was blocked.

"Your account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia because it appears to be mainly intended for publicity and/or promotional purposes."

Wow! That site sucks!

ultmetal wrote:

Well that didn't work to well. I created an account under ultmetal and within an hour my account was blocked.

"Your account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia because it appears to be mainly intended for publicity and/or promotional purposes."

Wow! That site sucks!

Really? You created an account to plead your case and they ban you? Wow.

But where did you send that post above? Did you just edit the deletion page or did you actually e-mail it somewhere?

Eyesore wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Well that didn't work to well. I created an account under ultmetal and within an hour my account was blocked.

"Your account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia because it appears to be mainly intended for publicity and/or promotional purposes."

Wow! That site sucks!

Really? You created an account to plead your case and they ban you? Wow.

But where did you send that post above? Did you just edit the deletion page or did you actually e-mail it somewhere?

No, I went through the proper channels. I addressed it to the admin that deleted the page and I added it to the Requests for Undeletion page. I tried to be courteous and offer the facts to dispute the people that deleted the page. Apparently it doesn't matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion#Ultimatum_.28American_Band.29
Someone else also made a request on our behalf on that page.

Who reads wikipedia for knowledge about lower-than-first-tier metal bands anyway?

I would worry if you got deleted from Metal-Archives or rateyourmusic.com. That's where I go 99.5% of the time.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Who reads wikipedia for knowledge about lower-than-first-tier metal bands anyway?

I would worry if you got deleted from Metal-Archives or rateyourmusic.com. That's where I go 99.5% of the time.

Here's a couple posts from Facebook:
Ethan Goff I actually discovered Ultimatum using wiki.

Micah Newby I actually discovered you guys through wiki. Thats messed up.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Who reads wikipedia for knowledge about lower-than-first-tier metal bands anyway?

I would worry if you got deleted from Metal-Archives or rateyourmusic.com. That's where I go 99.5% of the time.

me too, & spirit-of-metal as well.