We're under attack....

It just goes to show you how diametrically/polar opposite that the various religions are in context with that of Islam. If Christians in TODAY's day and age acted like various fanatical groups of Islam, then bands like Slayer would have been taken out long ago. News agencies are reporting that this horrific act was carried out, due to the fact that Norwegian newspapers printed cartoon images of Muhammad, which in the mind of some Muslims means that innocents should then be killed. I find it funny how those of other religious affiliations don't go to great extremes to right the wrongs brought on by the opposing side. I brought up Slayer, because if Christians acted like Muslims, then Slayer would have never ever put out a cover like that of Christ Illusion. I don't have a deep connection with Christ, but even I was mortified by Slayer's album cover, which is beyond bad taste IMO. With that being said, I don't know of any Christians out there who are looking to gun down the likes of Kerry King. Hell, as crazy as Fred Phelps gang is (and they're f'ing crazy), they look normal among many who follow Islam. Many of those within that religious base need to get a clue in life!


***Okay, they just released the info on this guy who did this awful deed*** He's blonde hair blue eyed and supposedly is anti-Muslim. Granted, I was wrong regarding who was involved, but my thoughts on the matter stay the same. For every Timothy McVeigh or this douche bag, you have 1000's of radical Muslims around the world who are concocting the next attack on innocents or who have already accomplished their mission.

WTF? The bombing and the shooting attacks were both carried out by the same guy????

If this thread devolves into "Islam-bashing" it will be locked. Fair warning.

metalinmyveins wrote:

It just goes to show you how diametrically/polar opposite that the various religions are in context with that of Islam. If Christians in TODAY's day and age acted like various fanatical groups of Islam, then bands like Slayer would have been taken out long ago. News agencies are reporting that this horrific act was carried out, due to the fact that Norwegian newspapers printed cartoon images of Muhammad, which in the mind of some Muslims means that innocents should then be killed. I find it funny how those of other religious affiliations don't go to great extremes to right the wrongs brought on by the opposing side. I brought up Slayer, because if Christians acted like Muslims, then Slayer would have never ever put out a cover like that of Christ Illusion. I don't have a deep connection with Christ, but even I was mortified by Slayer's album cover, which is beyond bad taste IMO. With that being said, I don't know of any Christians out there who are looking to gun down the likes of Kerry King. Hell, as crazy as Fred Phelps gang is (and they're f'ing crazy), they look normal among many who follow Islam. Many of those within that religious base need to get a clue in life!


***Okay, they just released the info on this guy who did this awful deed*** He's blonde hair blue eyed and supposedly is anti-Muslim. Granted, I was wrong regarding who was involved, but my thoughts on the matter stay the same. For every Timothy McVeigh or this douche bag, you have 1000's of radical Muslims around the world who are concocting the next attack on innocents or who have already accomplished their mission.

Violence is engrained to mankind, regardless of religion (or atheist), class, or education. People want to point to this or that to lay blame but the fact is most people, if they didnt have to deal with the consequences, would take the might makes tact. Some people pat themselves on the back saying they would never do such a thing but they have thought of doing ill towards someone else - just never acted on it. The news is just full of people who threw off the inhibitions and acted on their desires. Race, religion, money, etc - all these are really excuses to have things the way they want them to be.

^ excellent post.

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

It just goes to show you how diametrically/polar opposite that the various religions are in context with that of Islam. If Christians in TODAY's day and age acted like various fanatical groups of Islam, then bands like Slayer would have been taken out long ago. News agencies are reporting that this horrific act was carried out, due to the fact that Norwegian newspapers printed cartoon images of Muhammad, which in the mind of some Muslims means that innocents should then be killed. I find it funny how those of other religious affiliations don't go to great extremes to right the wrongs brought on by the opposing side. I brought up Slayer, because if Christians acted like Muslims, then Slayer would have never ever put out a cover like that of Christ Illusion. I don't have a deep connection with Christ, but even I was mortified by Slayer's album cover, which is beyond bad taste IMO. With that being said, I don't know of any Christians out there who are looking to gun down the likes of Kerry King. Hell, as crazy as Fred Phelps gang is (and they're f'ing crazy), they look normal among many who follow Islam. Many of those within that religious base need to get a clue in life!


***Okay, they just released the info on this guy who did this awful deed*** He's blonde hair blue eyed and supposedly is anti-Muslim. Granted, I was wrong regarding who was involved, but my thoughts on the matter stay the same. For every Timothy McVeigh or this douche bag, you have 1000's of radical Muslims around the world who are concocting the next attack on innocents or who have already accomplished their mission.

Violence is engrained to mankind, regardless of religion (or atheist), class, or education. People want to point to this or that to lay blame but the fact is most people, if they didnt have to deal with the consequences, would take the might makes tact. Some people pat themselves on the back saying they would never do such a thing but they have thought of doing ill towards someone else - just never acted on it. The news is just full of people who threw off the inhibitions and acted on their desires. Race, religion, money, etc - all these are really excuses to have things the way they want them to be.

Wow, I would hope most people wouldn't hurt/kill someone if there were no consequences. I have something called a conscience, which for all intents and purposes won't allow me to hurt someone else; physically or emotionally. I also try to surround myself with those who share this same viewpoint. I guess I take umbrage with your thoughts on this matter, as I don't feel most people would hurt/kill someone if there weren't laws set up to protect others. I think most of mankind are rational human beings who are wired like myself who oppose violence towards their brethren.

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

It just goes to show you how diametrically/polar opposite that the various religions are in context with that of Islam. If Christians in TODAY's day and age acted like various fanatical groups of Islam, then bands like Slayer would have been taken out long ago. News agencies are reporting that this horrific act was carried out, due to the fact that Norwegian newspapers printed cartoon images of Muhammad, which in the mind of some Muslims means that innocents should then be killed. I find it funny how those of other religious affiliations don't go to great extremes to right the wrongs brought on by the opposing side. I brought up Slayer, because if Christians acted like Muslims, then Slayer would have never ever put out a cover like that of Christ Illusion. I don't have a deep connection with Christ, but even I was mortified by Slayer's album cover, which is beyond bad taste IMO. With that being said, I don't know of any Christians out there who are looking to gun down the likes of Kerry King. Hell, as crazy as Fred Phelps gang is (and they're f'ing crazy), they look normal among many who follow Islam. Many of those within that religious base need to get a clue in life!


***Okay, they just released the info on this guy who did this awful deed*** He's blonde hair blue eyed and supposedly is anti-Muslim. Granted, I was wrong regarding who was involved, but my thoughts on the matter stay the same. For every Timothy McVeigh or this douche bag, you have 1000's of radical Muslims around the world who are concocting the next attack on innocents or who have already accomplished their mission.

Violence is engrained to mankind, regardless of religion (or atheist), class, or education. People want to point to this or that to lay blame but the fact is most people, if they didnt have to deal with the consequences, would take the might makes tact. Some people pat themselves on the back saying they would never do such a thing but they have thought of doing ill towards someone else - just never acted on it. The news is just full of people who threw off the inhibitions and acted on their desires. Race, religion, money, etc - all these are really excuses to have things the way they want them to be.

Wow, I would hope most people wouldn't hurt/kill someone if there were no consequences. I have something called a conscience, which for all intents and purposes won't allow me to hurt someone else; physically or emotionally. I also try to surround myself with those who share this same viewpoint. I guess I take umbrage with your thoughts on this matter, as I don't feel most people would hurt/kill someone if there weren't laws set up to protect others. I think most of mankind are rational human beings who are wired like myself who oppose violence towards their brethren.

I dont think most people go around looking for ways to hurt or kill others but when prompted, all people have at one time or another, wished they could do harm to someone else. Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc. I too would hope I wouldnt hurt anyone else but I know when someone cuts me off in traffic, sometimes the urge to retaliate can be strong. The consequences of damage to my reputation, family, vehicle, lawsuit, imprisonment, etc cause me to flash an angry look but go no further.

This was a politically motivated act. It had nothing to do with religion. You must remember that the nazis were so-called Christians too. And the gunman's religious views are only mentioned because of his profile on Facebook.

exact33 wrote:

Violence is engrained to mankind, regardless of religion (or atheist), class, or education. People want to point to this or that to lay blame but the fact is most people, if they didnt have to deal with the consequences, would take the might makes tact. Some people pat themselves on the back saying they would never do such a thing but they have thought of doing ill towards someone else - just never acted on it. The news is just full of people who threw off the inhibitions and acted on their desires. Race, religion, money, etc - all these are really excuses to have things the way they want them to be.

potw!

Quote :

It had nothing to do with religion.

Unfortunatly everytime some nut job commits an act of terrorism, the first thing people jump to is Musilim or Christian fundamentalists. Why I agree with metalinmyveins that there is more danger from extreme Muslim terrorist than Christian ones (of course nutjobs abound in all religions and anti-religions), one should not jump to conclusions until the facts are known.

exact33 wrote:

Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc.

Is it some people or most people? In your first sentence you stated that some people act on it, and in the very next sentence you state that most people act rationally! If most people acted irrationally then the population would be half of what it is currently. It's because of the rationality of human beings that we aren't murdering people left & right, physically assaulting others, stealing from others, etc...Regarding the news, stories are littered with bad things, because people gravitate towards those types of things. We leave it to talk shows and the internet to inform of us of the actual good being done by others throughout the world.

DallasBlack wrote:

Quote :

It had nothing to do with religion.

Unfortunatly everytime some nut job commits an act of terrorism, the first thing people jump to is Musilim or Christian fundamentalists. Why I agree with metalinmyveins that there is more danger from extreme Muslim terrorist than Christian ones (of course nutjobs abound in all religions and anti-religions), one should not jump to conclusions until the facts are known.

Well, the reason jumped to the conclusion that it was due to Muslim terrorism was because Norway published a caricature of Muhammad, which is forbidden with Islam. Ayman Al-Zawahiri already stated that there would be retribution for Norwegian newspapers following that of Danish newspapers regarding the cartoon of Muhammad. So, in that respect, I don't blame people for jumping the gun.

metalinmyveins wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Quote :

It had nothing to do with religion.

Unfortunatly everytime some nut job commits an act of terrorism, the first thing people jump to is Musilim or Christian fundamentalists. Why I agree with metalinmyveins that there is more danger from extreme Muslim terrorist than Christian ones (of course nutjobs abound in all religions and anti-religions), one should not jump to conclusions until the facts are known.

Well, the reason jumped to the conclusion that it was due to Muslim terrorism was because Norway published a caricature of Muhammad, which is forbidden with Islam. Ayman Al-Zawahiri already stated that there would be retribution for Norwegian newspapers following that of Danish newspapers regarding the cartoon of Muhammad. So, in that respect, I don't blame people for jumping the gun.

I understand but to draw that conclusion is just as hasty as someone blaming fundamentalist Christians.

DallasBlack wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Quote :

It had nothing to do with religion.

Unfortunatly everytime some nut job commits an act of terrorism, the first thing people jump to is Musilim or Christian fundamentalists. Why I agree with metalinmyveins that there is more danger from extreme Muslim terrorist than Christian ones (of course nutjobs abound in all religions and anti-religions), one should not jump to conclusions until the facts are known.

Well, the reason jumped to the conclusion that it was due to Muslim terrorism was because Norway published a caricature of Muhammad, which is forbidden with Islam. Ayman Al-Zawahiri already stated that there would be retribution for Norwegian newspapers following that of Danish newspapers regarding the cartoon of Muhammad. So, in that respect, I don't blame people for jumping the gun.

I understand but to draw that conclusion is just as hasty as someone blaming fundamentalist Christians.

I disagree, as radical Muslims WANT to be blamed for killing the infidel. They have this totally different view on what the Koran really means, versus that of your average Muslim. Unfortunately for many Muslims, around the world, they take a soft stance on people such as Bin Laden. For instance, not long before Bin Laden was killed, Pakistani's (in a poll conducted within their country) felt the biggest threat to them was the United States. Yet, we were providing a billion dollars in aide for Pakistan in the hopes that they would become an ally in the war against terror. For Pakistani's (mostly Muslims) to be this clueless is unfathomable. For some reason the U.S ranked significantly higher than that of Al-Qaida, the Taliban, and India, who they've not only been fighting decades with, but who also have nuclear bombs.

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc.

Is it some people or most people? In your first sentence you stated that some people act on it, and in the very next sentence you state that most people act rationally! If most people acted irrationally then the population would be half of what it is currently. It's because of the rationality of human beings that we aren't murdering people left & right, physically assaulting others, stealing from others, etc...Regarding the news, stories are littered with bad things, because people gravitate towards those types of things. We leave it to talk shows and the internet to inform of us of the actual good being done by others throughout the world.

I guess I didnt express it clearly so I will correct it: most people do not act rationally. People disobey the law all the time - they know they can get away with speeding, petty theft, underage drinking, etc. The reason most dont hurt others is they know there are consequences. They dont want to go to jail so they control their actions. When the guy down the street is drumming into the early hours of the night and I cant sleep - I would very much like to go over and silence the racket but going to jail over it isnt an equitable outcome.

as for the news only covering the bad stuff, spend a day in my towns criminal justice system and the news doesnt even begin to scratch the surface, and these are the people that have actually been caught. Oh yeah, I live in a small town.

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc.

Is it some people or most people? In your first sentence you stated that some people act on it, and in the very next sentence you state that most people act rationally! If most people acted irrationally then the population would be half of what it is currently. It's because of the rationality of human beings that we aren't murdering people left & right, physically assaulting others, stealing from others, etc...Regarding the news, stories are littered with bad things, because people gravitate towards those types of things. We leave it to talk shows and the internet to inform of us of the actual good being done by others throughout the world.

I guess I didnt express it clearly so I will correct it: most people do not act rationally. People disobey the law all the time - they know they can get away with speeding, petty theft, underage drinking, etc. The reason most dont hurt others is they know there are consequences. They dont want to go to jail so they control their actions. When the guy down the street is drumming into the early hours of the night and I cant sleep - I would very much like to go over and silence the racket but going to jail over it isnt an equitable outcome.

as for the news only covering the bad stuff, spend a day in my towns criminal justice system and the news doesnt even begin to scratch the surface, and these are the people that have actually been caught. Oh yeah, I live in a small town.

I'll clear my end up as well. When I used the word rationally, I was strictly speaking within the context of taking someone's life. I think MOST human beings live with a moral compass when it comes to the value of a human life.

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc.

Is it some people or most people? In your first sentence you stated that some people act on it, and in the very next sentence you state that most people act rationally! If most people acted irrationally then the population would be half of what it is currently. It's because of the rationality of human beings that we aren't murdering people left & right, physically assaulting others, stealing from others, etc...Regarding the news, stories are littered with bad things, because people gravitate towards those types of things. We leave it to talk shows and the internet to inform of us of the actual good being done by others throughout the world.

I guess I didnt express it clearly so I will correct it: most people do not act rationally. People disobey the law all the time - they know they can get away with speeding, petty theft, underage drinking, etc. The reason most dont hurt others is they know there are consequences. They dont want to go to jail so they control their actions. When the guy down the street is drumming into the early hours of the night and I cant sleep - I would very much like to go over and silence the racket but going to jail over it isnt an equitable outcome.

as for the news only covering the bad stuff, spend a day in my towns criminal justice system and the news doesnt even begin to scratch the surface, and these are the people that have actually been caught. Oh yeah, I live in a small town.

I'll clear my end up as well. When I used the word rationally, I was strictly speaking within the context of taking someone's life. I think MOST human beings live with a moral compass when it comes to the value of a human life.

I might have agreed with you 20+ years ago but I wouldnt now. I think there are people out there like you describe, but I think they are in the minority now. In 1960 in the US there were 288K violent crimes with a populate of 179M and in 2009 there were 1.3M violent crimes with a population of 300M. Rape jumped from 19K to 89k. Now the definition might not have been the best in the 60s but the penalties today are far greater. My figures are from http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

I agree with exact.

I think if people knew they could get away with their actions without fear of repercussions, society would devolve into total anarchy.

Speaking for myself, I don't know how many times I've arrived at work and told my cube neighbor that I wished I was that little kid in the Twilight Zone episode who could "wish" people away to a cornfield. I have a wicked temper when I'm driving and I honestly think that if I knew I could get away with it, I'd take out the cell-phone-talking, texting, inconsiderate, non-driving-ability morons in a heartbeat.

What stops me is the law and the consequences thereof. That doesn't stop me from fantasizing about it though.

More from Yahoo news:
http://news.yahoo.com/gunmans-background-puzzles-police-norway-044701742.html

tohostudios wrote:

I have a wicked temper when I'm driving and I honestly think that if I knew I could get away with it, I'd take out the cell-phone-talking, texting, inconsiderate, non-driving-ability morons in a heartbeat.

What stops me is the law and the consequences thereof. That doesn't stop me from fantasizing about it though.

I love it!!

My wife and I always talk about how cool it would be to just ram our truck into those people! I personally would love to use a tank.

Joe wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I have a wicked temper when I'm driving and I honestly think that if I knew I could get away with it, I'd take out the cell-phone-talking, texting, inconsiderate, non-driving-ability morons in a heartbeat.

What stops me is the law and the consequences thereof. That doesn't stop me from fantasizing about it though.

I love it!!

My wife and I always talk about how cool it would be to just ram our truck into those people! I personally would love to use a tank.

Me too.

But around here, the roads would be littered with bodies.

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc.

Is it some people or most people? In your first sentence you stated that some people act on it, and in the very next sentence you state that most people act rationally! If most people acted irrationally then the population would be half of what it is currently. It's because of the rationality of human beings that we aren't murdering people left & right, physically assaulting others, stealing from others, etc...Regarding the news, stories are littered with bad things, because people gravitate towards those types of things. We leave it to talk shows and the internet to inform of us of the actual good being done by others throughout the world.

I guess I didnt express it clearly so I will correct it: most people do not act rationally. People disobey the law all the time - they know they can get away with speeding, petty theft, underage drinking, etc. The reason most dont hurt others is they know there are consequences. They dont want to go to jail so they control their actions. When the guy down the street is drumming into the early hours of the night and I cant sleep - I would very much like to go over and silence the racket but going to jail over it isnt an equitable outcome.

as for the news only covering the bad stuff, spend a day in my towns criminal justice system and the news doesnt even begin to scratch the surface, and these are the people that have actually been caught. Oh yeah, I live in a small town.

I'll clear my end up as well. When I used the word rationally, I was strictly speaking within the context of taking someone's life. I think MOST human beings live with a moral compass when it comes to the value of a human life.

I might have agreed with you 20+ years ago but I wouldnt now. I think there are people out there like you describe, but I think they are in the minority now. In 1960 in the US there were 288K violent crimes with a populate of 179M and in 2009 there were 1.3M violent crimes with a population of 300M. Rape jumped from 19K to 89k. Now the definition might not have been the best in the 60s but the penalties today are far greater. My figures are from http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

But you're giving me statistics that back up my point. 1.3 million is significantly less than 300 million people. Yes, there are many horrible people out there, but they don't represent the population as a whole. If most people didn't think rationally when it comes to taking a life, then the stats would be reversed. You would have 298 million people committing violent crimes and a meager 1.3 million acting in accordance with the laws of God/Man.

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc.

Is it some people or most people? In your first sentence you stated that some people act on it, and in the very next sentence you state that most people act rationally! If most people acted irrationally then the population would be half of what it is currently. It's because of the rationality of human beings that we aren't murdering people left & right, physically assaulting others, stealing from others, etc...Regarding the news, stories are littered with bad things, because people gravitate towards those types of things. We leave it to talk shows and the internet to inform of us of the actual good being done by others throughout the world.

I guess I didnt express it clearly so I will correct it: most people do not act rationally. People disobey the law all the time - they know they can get away with speeding, petty theft, underage drinking, etc. The reason most dont hurt others is they know there are consequences. They dont want to go to jail so they control their actions. When the guy down the street is drumming into the early hours of the night and I cant sleep - I would very much like to go over and silence the racket but going to jail over it isnt an equitable outcome.

as for the news only covering the bad stuff, spend a day in my towns criminal justice system and the news doesnt even begin to scratch the surface, and these are the people that have actually been caught. Oh yeah, I live in a small town.

I'll clear my end up as well. When I used the word rationally, I was strictly speaking within the context of taking someone's life. I think MOST human beings live with a moral compass when it comes to the value of a human life.

I might have agreed with you 20+ years ago but I wouldnt now. I think there are people out there like you describe, but I think they are in the minority now. In 1960 in the US there were 288K violent crimes with a populate of 179M and in 2009 there were 1.3M violent crimes with a population of 300M. Rape jumped from 19K to 89k. Now the definition might not have been the best in the 60s but the penalties today are far greater. My figures are from http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

But you're giving me statistics that back up my point. 1.3 million is significantly less than 300 million people. Yes, there are many horrible people out there, but they don't represent the population as a whole. If most people didn't think rationally when it comes to taking a life, then the stats would be reversed. You would have 298 million people committing violent crimes and a meager 1.3 million acting in accordance with the laws of God/Man.

most people (and I shudder as I type this) are like toho. They want to do inflict pain/take out someone at some point but they dont for fear of the consequences.

Joe wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I have a wicked temper when I'm driving and I honestly think that if I knew I could get away with it, I'd take out the cell-phone-talking, texting, inconsiderate, non-driving-ability morons in a heartbeat.

What stops me is the law and the consequences thereof. That doesn't stop me from fantasizing about it though.

I love it!!

My wife and I always talk about how cool it would be to just ram our truck into those people! I personally would love to use a tank.

remind me not to drive around where you are!!!

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Some people act on it, most just harbor the feelings. I also disagree with you in that most people dont act rationally when it really comes down to it. They act in the moment and do things that, if they had thought about it, they might not have done. The news is littered with such examples and its not too hard to find examples of people doing things to one another at work, at home, out in public, on the road, etc.

Is it some people or most people? In your first sentence you stated that some people act on it, and in the very next sentence you state that most people act rationally! If most people acted irrationally then the population would be half of what it is currently. It's because of the rationality of human beings that we aren't murdering people left & right, physically assaulting others, stealing from others, etc...Regarding the news, stories are littered with bad things, because people gravitate towards those types of things. We leave it to talk shows and the internet to inform of us of the actual good being done by others throughout the world.

I guess I didnt express it clearly so I will correct it: most people do not act rationally. People disobey the law all the time - they know they can get away with speeding, petty theft, underage drinking, etc. The reason most dont hurt others is they know there are consequences. They dont want to go to jail so they control their actions. When the guy down the street is drumming into the early hours of the night and I cant sleep - I would very much like to go over and silence the racket but going to jail over it isnt an equitable outcome.

as for the news only covering the bad stuff, spend a day in my towns criminal justice system and the news doesnt even begin to scratch the surface, and these are the people that have actually been caught. Oh yeah, I live in a small town.

I'll clear my end up as well. When I used the word rationally, I was strictly speaking within the context of taking someone's life. I think MOST human beings live with a moral compass when it comes to the value of a human life.

I might have agreed with you 20+ years ago but I wouldnt now. I think there are people out there like you describe, but I think they are in the minority now. In 1960 in the US there were 288K violent crimes with a populate of 179M and in 2009 there were 1.3M violent crimes with a population of 300M. Rape jumped from 19K to 89k. Now the definition might not have been the best in the 60s but the penalties today are far greater. My figures are from http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

But you're giving me statistics that back up my point. 1.3 million is significantly less than 300 million people. Yes, there are many horrible people out there, but they don't represent the population as a whole. If most people didn't think rationally when it comes to taking a life, then the stats would be reversed. You would have 298 million people committing violent crimes and a meager 1.3 million acting in accordance with the laws of God/Man.

most people (and I shudder as I type this) are like toho. They want to do inflict pain/take out someone at some point but they dont for fear of the consequences.

No offense, but that is ridiculous. That is pure speculation on your part. All we can do is go off of empirical evidence, which clearly states that most people aren't violent. You can speculate all you want whether that is due to laws that man has set, but it just as well could be due to the fact that people have a built in moral code, which essentially states that the life of another human being is of most importance.