Epic Remastering Failures

Temple of Blood wrote:

manny wrote:

Since you feel that way can I remaster one of your old Temple of Blood disc and re-record your guitar parts and vocals, not because your performances are horrid but just because.

That would make it a bunch of cover songs and we would still get paid royalties for our writing, as I understand it. So yes, I fully support that.

So you are saying Ozzy re-recording the bass and drum parts essentially turned Blizzard and Diary into cover albums, in that case we won the argument.

I never bought any of the Megadeth remasters except for the 2002 re-issue of KIMB. The others weren't remastered until 2004, and by that time I had all the Megadeth albums I wanted. However, I've heard versions of some tracks on Peace Sells that sound much clearer, you can hear the guitar solos a lot better or something.

Temple of Blood wrote:

I would expect that the songwriters for Ozzy would've gotten paid even if their parts were re-recorded. I would've fully expected Daisley to get remunerated for all the writing he did. Why they weren't legally, I don't know. What I don't understand is how re-recording those parts somehow denied them their songwriting royalties. Writing and performing are different functions and pay differently. A lot of artists make money writing songs for other people to perform.

Arden was right that Ozzy's name would sell (and has) more than the name "Blizzard of Ozz". Just like "Seventh Star" sold more under the name BLACK SABBATH than it would have under "Tony Iommi". Fans may not like it, but the casual music fans will gravitate more to the big brands with name recognition. That's why Jerry Cantrell and the rest of the guys are calling themselves "Alice in Chains". They can write the same songs as they could under Jerry's name and probably sell 10x more copies. Sad but true.

Of course the songwriters would get paid regardless of the performance but Daisley and Kerslake didn't because they waited too long to bring their suit. The statute of limitations had run and they were out of luck and it didn't matter if they were in the right or not. You must bring a suit before time runs out or you are SOL.

Witchfinder wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

I would expect that the songwriters for Ozzy would've gotten paid even if their parts were re-recorded. I would've fully expected Daisley to get remunerated for all the writing he did. Why they weren't legally, I don't know. What I don't understand is how re-recording those parts somehow denied them their songwriting royalties. Writing and performing are different functions and pay differently. A lot of artists make money writing songs for other people to perform.

Arden was right that Ozzy's name would sell (and has) more than the name "Blizzard of Ozz". Just like "Seventh Star" sold more under the name BLACK SABBATH than it would have under "Tony Iommi". Fans may not like it, but the casual music fans will gravitate more to the big brands with name recognition. That's why Jerry Cantrell and the rest of the guys are calling themselves "Alice in Chains". They can write the same songs as they could under Jerry's name and probably sell 10x more copies. Sad but true.

Of course the songwriters would get paid regardless of the performance but Daisley and Kerslake didn't because they waited too long to bring their suit. The statute of limitations had run and they were out of luck and it didn't matter if they were in the right or not. You must bring a suit before time runs out or you are SOL.

But the songwriters weren't getting paid anyway...regardless of what recording was on the market...that was the problem. That was the whole reason Daisley & Kerslake were suing. Having their parts re-recorded, as Ult said, was spite on Sharon's part. She didn't take kindly to being sued, had not paid Daisley & Kerslake in years (and wasn't going to), so she decided to add insult to injury and have the 2 guys that were part of Ozzy's band at the time simply replace the original bass & drum tracks...sheer spite. It was all part of "proving" (in her mind) that Ozzy was the real star of those albums and perpetuating the myth that Ozzy has any discernable talent.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

I would expect that the songwriters for Ozzy would've gotten paid even if their parts were re-recorded. I would've fully expected Daisley to get remunerated for all the writing he did. Why they weren't legally, I don't know. What I don't understand is how re-recording those parts somehow denied them their songwriting royalties. Writing and performing are different functions and pay differently. A lot of artists make money writing songs for other people to perform.

Arden was right that Ozzy's name would sell (and has) more than the name "Blizzard of Ozz". Just like "Seventh Star" sold more under the name BLACK SABBATH than it would have under "Tony Iommi". Fans may not like it, but the casual music fans will gravitate more to the big brands with name recognition. That's why Jerry Cantrell and the rest of the guys are calling themselves "Alice in Chains". They can write the same songs as they could under Jerry's name and probably sell 10x more copies. Sad but true.

Of course the songwriters would get paid regardless of the performance but Daisley and Kerslake didn't because they waited too long to bring their suit. The statute of limitations had run and they were out of luck and it didn't matter if they were in the right or not. You must bring a suit before time runs out or you are SOL.

But the songwriters weren't getting paid anyway...regardless of what recording was on the market...that was the problem. That was the whole reason Daisley & Kerslake were suing. Having their parts re-recorded, as Ult said, was spite on Sharon's part. She didn't take kindly to being sued, had not paid Daisley & Kerslake in years (and wasn't going to), so she decided to add insult to injury and have the 2 guys that were part of Ozzy's band at the time simply replace the original bass & drum tracks...sheer spite. It was all part of "proving" (in her mind) that Ozzy was the real star of those albums and perpetuating the myth that Ozzy has any discernable talent.

Yep. I understand that completely. My point was the whole re-recording was pointless from a legal standpoint because Daisley and Kerslake had waited too long to sue. So not only was it an unneccesary thing to do legally, it was a shifty as hell thing to do to the fans. Of course Daisley and Kerslake should have been paid. That they weren't compensated fairly says all you really need to say about Sharon and what scum she is. Let's face it, without Daisley, there might not have been a Blizzard or Diary or No More Tears for that matter since he wrote a lot of that as well.

The megadeth so far remaster is terrible like. It absolutely ruined the album for me. the bad/over-reverb production of the original added to the albums charmed for me. the remaster sounds like it was record in a room with no air. shite

Jake E Lee and Lemmy do not get any royalities for the songs they co wrote with Ozzy, on the albums they worked on. Both signed a deal where they got paid money up front but had no ownership over songs, but both of these guys were told this up front.

manny wrote:

Jake E Lee and Lemmy do not get any royalities for the songs they co wrote with Ozzy, on the albums they worked on. Both signed a deal where they got paid money up front but had no ownership over songs, but both of these guys were told this up front.

I remember watching a video of Lemmy saying he made more money off those Ozzy songs than he did on most of his Motorhead material. So they must have been paid well.



Speaking of remasters,
ALL the ZZ Top remasters are ANNOYING. They weren't just remastered, but the drums were replaced with digital drums to give them a sound similar to their 80's hit albums. I suppose the record company or band thought it would help them sell more CDs. Whatever the case may be, the original mixes on vinyl are shockingly different.

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

Jake E Lee and Lemmy do not get any royalities for the songs they co wrote with Ozzy, on the albums they worked on. Both signed a deal where they got paid money up front but had no ownership over songs, but both of these guys were told this up front.

I remember watching a video of Lemmy saying he made more money off those Ozzy songs than he did on most of his Motorhead material. So they must have been paid well.



Speaking of remasters,
ALL the ZZ Top remasters are ANNOYING. They weren't just remastered, but the drums were replaced with digital drums to give them a sound similar to their 80's hit albums. I suppose the record company or band thought it would help them sell more CDs. Whatever the case may be, the original mixes on vinyl are shockingly different.

I was shocked when I bought 'Tejas' on disc, and thinking it sounded different from what I remember, I hope they returned those early ZZTOP albums to the way they sounded when they were first released.

Quote :

Those Ozzy abominations came into the music store I was working at in the late 90's.

It says they came out in 2002 on the back of the cd.

I almost never listen to re-masterings or re-recordings, but one I do remember being far worse than the original was the early CD version of Rainbow's Rising. I say "far worse", though really, it's only on one song, but that song happens to be Stargazer, where they eliminated a lot of the synth and there was no delay on the vocals. Why try to fix perfection? It was not very good at all, IMO.

manny wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

Jake E Lee and Lemmy do not get any royalities for the songs they co wrote with Ozzy, on the albums they worked on. Both signed a deal where they got paid money up front but had no ownership over songs, but both of these guys were told this up front.

I remember watching a video of Lemmy saying he made more money off those Ozzy songs than he did on most of his Motorhead material. So they must have been paid well.



Speaking of remasters,
ALL the ZZ Top remasters are ANNOYING. They weren't just remastered, but the drums were replaced with digital drums to give them a sound similar to their 80's hit albums. I suppose the record company or band thought it would help them sell more CDs. Whatever the case may be, the original mixes on vinyl are shockingly different.

I was shocked when I bought 'Tejas' on disc, and thinking it sounded different from what I remember, I hope they returned those early ZZTOP albums to the way they sounded when they were first released.

They did. The new remasters are from the original tapes.

Witchfinder wrote:

manny wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

Jake E Lee and Lemmy do not get any royalities for the songs they co wrote with Ozzy, on the albums they worked on. Both signed a deal where they got paid money up front but had no ownership over songs, but both of these guys were told this up front.

I remember watching a video of Lemmy saying he made more money off those Ozzy songs than he did on most of his Motorhead material. So they must have been paid well.



Speaking of remasters,
ALL the ZZ Top remasters are ANNOYING. They weren't just remastered, but the drums were replaced with digital drums to give them a sound similar to their 80's hit albums. I suppose the record company or band thought it would help them sell more CDs. Whatever the case may be, the original mixes on vinyl are shockingly different.

I was shocked when I bought 'Tejas' on disc, and thinking it sounded different from what I remember, I hope they returned those early ZZTOP albums to the way they sounded when they were first released.

They did. The new remasters are from the original tapes.

Cool thank you for the information.

We forgot to mention Stryper's butchering of "The Yellow And Black Attack"!

kmorg wrote:

We forgot to mention Stryper's butchering of "The Yellow And Black Attack"!

That was bad!!!!!

Not on CD, but the worst job I can think of is KISS - Creatures Of The Night, non-make up cover. That was horrendous!!!!!

What about Fastway-On Target? That's one case where most people liked the new version better(though I prefer the original) Here's the versions on the original version of the album.

Vexer6 wrote:

What about Fastway-On Target? That's one case where most people liked the new version better(though I prefer the original) Here's the versions on the original version of the album.

Wow!!!! That's what they sounded like after All Fired Up?!?!?!?!?!??!?

And I dont' know if it is a failure, but when FM (the Canadian Prog one) transferred their first album(Black Noise) to cd they had to use a mint vinyl copy since Passport Records LOST the master tapes.

I'm not really sure how fake horns could ruin an album? In My Darkest Hour, 502, Liar, Mary Jane, all great songs! I love all the Deth remasters.

MetalH wrote:

I'm not really sure how fake horns could ruin an album? In My Darkest Hour, 502, Liar, Mary Jane, all great songs! I love all the Deth remasters.

Thought I explained myself. It takes away from the overall heavy vibe of the album IMO.

Still catching up on this thread but there's a few remasters I have in my collection that I wish I could switch either for better sounding remasters or for the original pressings...

The band which instantly comes to mind is Scorpions. The remasters released several years ago via EMI, crica 2002/03 are for most part awful and sound probably worse than the original pressings. Those remasters do not cover the entire Scorpions catalog, rather they start with Tokyo Tapes and finish with Savage Amusement.

For starters, Tokyo Tapes was reduced to a one disc version as the song 'Polar Nights' was removed from the album and placed as a bonus track on the album Taken By Force. From here on, it's a slippery slope.

Whoever attempted to remaster these albums was either very inexperienced, had never remastered any albums before, had never heard Scorpions' music before, was deaf or was most likely satisfying a primate curiosity and playing around with the knobs on the mixer board. Whatever it may have been, the treble on these remasters is turned to the maximum - there is no bass and no depth to the sound; rather, you are subjected to this blaring hissing; at times this 'hissing' interferes so much with the song that it becomes sonic pollution (see generally Animal Magnetism).

I have never heard the vinyl versions of the albums after Virgin Killer so I cannot comment on how much better the quality is but I can picture that they sound probably a lot better than these remasters.

These remasters are definitely a blotch in my music collection and I wish I could replace them with something that sounds decent. In fact, I ask this of you: if you are a Scorpions fan would you please let me know which issues of their albums following Virgin Killer are the best sounding? Should I track down the original pressings? or are there any better versions out there?

Let me know, thanks.