Black Sabbath - Born Again 2011 Deluxe Edition

ultmetal wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Shawn D. wrote:

The music industry has no idea what direction to go in, that's why they are still messing around with every combination imaginable. Until they can all unite into a common direction, this fracturing will continue and their target market will continue to get as frustrated with the whole thing as I have become.

They've put alot of money into pushing blu-rays on people, that would be the next logical arena to explore, especially since blu ray players have no reverse-compatibility issues.

Blu ray has been a failure. Regardless of its advantages, the format has not caught on and will not catch on.

It's just too expensive. We've just stuck with DVDs and they work perfectly fine IMO.

100% agree. I see no reason to switch. DVD's are just fine with me.

I think you guys are missing what can be accomplished with blu rays, the format hasn't even been tapped for it's potential.

Example:

Tom Petty box set. Contains 5 CDs. Also contains 1 blu ray. That blu ray holds ALL 5 discs, and is at 24bit resolution. 1 disc, 5 CDs worth of audio, at more than twice the resolution of what a CD can do.

Plus with movies, once you actually get a blu ray, you can't go back to DVDs, there is no quality comparison between the two.
l
Plus, blu ray players upsample the DVDs you play and make them look better than your standard DVD player.

Untapped potential+long product life cycle+improved quality=no brainer

Shawn D. wrote:

I think you guys are missing what can be accomplished with blu rays, the format hasn't even been tapped for it's potential.

Example:

Tom Petty box set. Contains 5 CDs. Also contains 1 blu ray. That blu ray holds ALL 5 discs, and is at 24bit resolution. 1 disc, 5 CDs worth of audio, at more than twice the resolution of what a CD can do.

Plus with movies, once you actually get a blu ray, you can't go back to DVDs, there is no quality comparison between the two.
l
Plus, blu ray players upsample the DVDs you play and make them look better than your standard DVD player.

Untapped potential+long product life cycle+improved quality=no brainer

Yeah...don't care...I won't live that long.

By the time they move into utilizing Blu-Ray for audio presentation like you mentioned (entire box sets on one disc, etc), I won't care. My son might, but he's 18 and loves CDs. Even owns a Blu-Ray player (PS3) and doesn't care about buying Blu-Ray discs...

Shawn D. wrote:

Untapped potential+long product life cycle+improved quality=no brainer

Until the next technological thing comes along and replaces those.

that's fine, the industry will wise up eventually and redo what they did in the late 80's. They'll pull the plug on the other formats and it will either be adapt or die.

It's got to happen, because the current business model they are using has been dead for almost a decade.

ultmetal wrote:

Shawn D. wrote:

Untapped potential+long product life cycle+improved quality=no brainer

Until the next technological thing comes along and replaces those.

Exactly.

For me, things reach a "good enough" ceiling...I have hit that with CD & DVD.

MP3's are cool for porability, On-Demand is great on cable, and I prefer the HD stations on my HD TV...but in terms of advancing with technology, I think I'm done unless I am forced otherwise (like if they make something new that I MUST HAVE and it's only available in Blu-Ray or whatever...and even then it would have to turn into several and not just one)....

Shawn D. wrote:

that's fine, the industry will wise up eventually and redo what they did in the late 80's. They'll pull the plug on the other formats and it will either be adapt or die.

It's got to happen, because the current business model they are using has been dead for almost a decade.

I remember mini-discs & mini-disc players failing, I remember HDCD failing, I remember DVD-Audio failing, I remember Dual-Disc failing, Audio-Memory Cards failing...none of those replaced CDs...it took getting stuff for free/illegally and completely digital to begin to put a dent in the CD market. No other physial format will see that kind of staying power.

And you say "dead", but CD's are still a 320 million+ (EDIT - physical units, not dollars) industry (that's about $4 billion @ avg $14 per unit)...once all the inflated numbers died down AND the digital MP3/file sharing hit, things got more real, IMO.

It's cool. I'll keep looking forward, you guys can stay put. It's like the old "I'LL NEVER BUY CDs" bullsh!t arguments I had with too many people to even count in the late 80's.

They all own CD players now.

Shawn D. wrote:

that's fine, the industry will wise up eventually and redo what they did in the late 80's. They'll pull the plug on the other formats and it will either be adapt or die.

It's got to happen, because the current business model they are using has been dead for almost a decade.

That's part of the problem. Consumerism. There was nothing inherently wrong with a dvd. But you can only squeeze so much blood outta that stone. Once sales started to level off, they look for something else for people to buy. Enter the Blu-ray. Sure, it might be pretty, but I (and I'm sure allot of folks) don't need to have one. Much like I don't notice much difference in remastered music, how much more clarity do I need to see when I'm watching 'Animal House' or 'Goodfellas' for the 100th time? What am I missing exactly?

Unless of course they stop making regular dvd's and force the change. Only then will I make the switch. Kicking and screaming too.

adapt or perish. that sums up my entire argument. I'm out of this thread.

Soooooooo, has anyone purchased the Born Again reissue? Is it a vast improvement?

Shawn D. wrote:

It's cool. I'll keep looking forward, you guys can stay put. It's like the old "I'LL NEVER BUY CDs" bullsh!t arguments I had with too many people to even count in the late 80's.

They all own CD players now.

You have to take into consideration the leap from cassettes to CDs compared to CDs to (say) Blu-Ray audio.

With cassettes to CD, you go from a very fragile, degradable, magnetic format that decayed very easily to a purely digital, much more durable format. That's a MUCH bigger jump than going from one digital format to another, even if things look and sound better. Most people (like me) hit that "good enough" ceiling. When MP3's showed up, it kind of "froze" the physical format. As amazing as Blu-Ray is, it's still physical and not a huge leap from CD like CDs were from cassettes.

CDs had people clamoring to replace their entire collections (false sales figures) whereas Blu-Ray (as has been noted already) is failing in that respect...nobody is breaking their necks to rebuy their movie collection in Blu-Ray.

Does anyone else find it amusing that the man that is lecturing us about "looking forward" and moving ahead with the times is the same dude that hasn't listened to any music released after 1994 or so?

I find that to be frickin' hilarious!!

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Does anyone else find it amusing that the man that is lecturing us about "looking forward" and moving ahead with the times is the same dude that hasn't listened to any music released after 1994 or so?

I find that to be frickin' hilarious!!

now that you mention it... does he also drive a lime green pinto??

No Pinto, but I am saving up for a 1970 Dodge Dart.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Shawn D. wrote:

that's fine, the industry will wise up eventually and redo what they did in the late 80's. They'll pull the plug on the other formats and it will either be adapt or die.

It's got to happen, because the current business model they are using has been dead for almost a decade.

That's part of the problem. Consumerism. There was nothing inherently wrong with a dvd. But you can only squeeze so much blood outta that stone. Once sales started to level off, they look for something else for people to buy. Enter the Blu-ray. Sure, it might be pretty, but I (and I'm sure allot of folks) don't need to have one. Much like I don't notice much difference in remastered music, how much more clarity do I need to see when I'm watching 'Animal House' or 'Goodfellas' for the 100th time? What am I missing exactly?

Unless of course they stop making regular dvd's and force the change. Only then will I make the switch. Kicking and screaming too.

for me the biggest problem isnt the quality of blu-ray - its the 'every time a new format comes out they want me to buy the movie again' argument. I got into dvds because the storage space was better - try storing a full season of Buffy on VHS! I can see the advantages of blu-ray so i will new stuff on blu-ray and keep my existing dvds.

the nice thing about blu ray is you don't have to buy anything again, they play DVDs better than DVD players do.

I'm trying to get a friend of mine to upload the Sabbath remaster for me so I can compare it to the Castle version from the 90's. If it sounds great I'll pick it up. I'll post my feedback once I get to hear it.

Shawn D. wrote:

the nice thing about blu ray is you don't have to buy anything again, they play DVDs better than DVD players do.

I'm trying to get a friend of mine to upload the Sabbath remaster for me so I can compare it to the Castle version from the 90's. If it sounds great I'll pick it up. I'll post my feedback once I get to hear it.

that is a nice part of the blu-ray.

Shawn D. wrote:

the nice thing about blu ray is you don't have to buy anything again, they play DVDs better than DVD players do.

I'm trying to get a friend of mine to upload the Sabbath remaster for me so I can compare it to the Castle version from the 90's. If it sounds great I'll pick it up. I'll post my feedback once I get to hear it.

Cool. I love this album, so I'm anxious to know the outcome. I already have the Castle version, so I don't need another one just for the sake of better packaging.

Shawn D. wrote:

all completely valid points.




There are too may people "mastering" albums that have had no training, schooling and understand no theory. Hence the number of really bad mastering jobs being done.

amen brother!!!!

Okay, I checked this out last night.

If you own the single disc Castle remaster...save your money!

No perceptible difference whatsover, just louder. The bonus track "The Fallen" wasn't even touched, they didn't have access to the tapes so they couldn't balance it better...they didn't even try to compress it to get a better mix between vocals and music.

The live concert is good, but I found a better sounding version on a blog a couple years ago.

Complete waste of money...unless you don't own the album at all.

I watched AC/DC Live At River Plate on Blu Ray the other night. Wow, the audio is AMAZING and the picture quality is amazing - they filmed it like it was a concert movie to be played in the theater - good stuff!!!! Blu-Ray rules!!!!!!!!

That said, I won't waste my hard earned money on the Born Again remaster!!!!

Yeah man, the blu ray thing is amazing. People that think DVD is "good enough" have yet to experience some of their favorite films on Blu Ray...

For example, watch the blu ray release of "THE SHINING". By far the BEST print of that movie I've ever seen, it was like watching the movie for the first time again. I've even seen it in the theater on a couple occasions, but that didn't hold a candle.

...and I'll wait on Born Again until Warner Bros. locates the master tapes.

I've decided to boycott Castle from now on, they are just ripoff artists and will receive no more of my money.

S.D. wrote:

I'm an audio engineer, what do you expect?

cool job. The mix for Born Again is terrible and I agree with Iommi. The album really rocks and I'd love to hear it the way it was originally intended. I remember reading about the band being upset about how the album sounded. This and Bark At The Moon came out at the same time and I picked up both and thinking about how the sound quality was so different between them. Love the ablum but the sound quality isn't there.