People don't even want to steal music anymore...

Required Fields wrote:

I think another good reason why a lot of people are downloading music instead of buying it is the fact that the economy is down. If it was higher, I think that record sales would be higher. But a tighter budget means people will need to just settle for a download instead.

Also, the people who download the most music also tend to buy the most music.

I think the economy argument is beginning to show holes. By that argument, the economy should affect everything. Yet, movie ticket prices go up, popcorn is $6 and there are sill $500 million blockbusters. People still shell out $10 for a movie ticket and $60 for a nw video game. But asking $15 for a CD seems ludicrous to people.

I think music is breeding consumer complacency by flooding the world with itself. The internet, home recording, the ability to make albums in your bedroom by pretty much anyone with a computer and put that music out into the world has created a gigantic monster. The pie stays the same size, but the people trying to get a piece of it multiply exponentially every year.

ToB and Shawn hit it right the nail right on the head, the music is not being valued and it has not been for sometime.

ToB is correct their is no fanfare or hype when it comes releasing albums, also artist take too long between releases, once upon a time it was one album per year, then it turned to an album every two years, now the average wait is 5 to 6 years. You are 15 when that great new band you loved listened to their debut, their next album comes out and you are now 21, how do you breed any kind of loyality or attachment to a band with that kind of wait in between releases.

The movie industry does not treat its fans like chumps, they have always priced movies cheap once their shelf life has gone on for awhile and they hype up their releases as a major event when they release it on Blu-Ray or DVD.

Record labeles do not encourage long term careers for their artist, they have charged too much for CD's and when a chain like FYE experiments with pricing all of their CD's for 9.99 and it shows a huge growth in sales, labels discourage this and some labels would not even particapate and the end result is another huge chain closing, Walmart carrying less CD's.

It seems to me like an industry intent on commiting suicide.

Finally you have a generation of 'music fans' who feel they are entitled to the music free, and never have gotten into the habit of buying a CD.

I 100% blame the record industry for their short forsight and general stupidity for what has happened to it.

Quote :

The movie industry does not treat its fans like chumps, they have always priced movies cheap once their shelf life has gone on for awhile and they hype up their releases as a major event when they release it on Blu-Ray or DVD.

I like this stance. As awesome as it is, why does Dark Side Of The Moon still cost $16? As an example, The Wizard Of Oz 2-disc special edition DVD is Amazon right now for $10 new.

The music industry should be making major major dollars, not losing money like 18 year old redneck at a smurf-for-hire house, the demand for music today is greater then ever, from video games such as Guitar Hero and others who pay to use artist music, to ipads, cellphones, they have promotional tools at their disposal such as Youtube, Facebook that you can appeal directly to your fans, etc, but these coke sniffing label bosses not only do not know that the price of their CD's are too expensive but they helped foster an entire generation that looks at buying CD's as I did buying an 8 track.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

The movie industry does not treat its fans like chumps, they have always priced movies cheap once their shelf life has gone on for awhile and they hype up their releases as a major event when they release it on Blu-Ray or DVD.

I like this stance. As awesome as it is, why does Dark Side Of The Moon still cost $16? As an example, The Wizard Of Oz 2-disc special edition DVD is Amazon right now for $10 new.

Exactly!!! Remember when CD's first came out and LP/Cassettes where $5.99 or $6.99 (at the non-mall stores) and then CD's where all of a sudden priced at $17.99???? WTF????? That is crazy!!!! Lower the prices and even the crappy music out today will sell better. And if an album was a HUGE seller back in the day, forget it, they will still charge you an arm and a leg

Good point; pricing plays a factor here as well.

the industry deserves to die because it serves art far less than it is served by art. we obviously need to rebuild from the ground up. ps, copyright infringement in this context is not theft.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

I think the economy argument is beginning to show holes. By that argument, the economy should affect everything. Yet, movie ticket prices go up, popcorn is $6 and there are sill $500 million blockbusters. People still shell out $10 for a movie ticket and $60 for a nw video game. But asking $15 for a CD seems ludicrous to people.

I think your broader point has merit but it does bear mentioning that industries previously thought to be recession-proof, especially the entertainment industry in general, are all suffering. Hollywood has gotten the living crap kicked out of it the past couple of years - the reason movie ticket prices are going up isn't because movies are doing well but because they're doing worse and they're trying to squeeze more out of a shrinking consumer base by jacking up prices. Those huge grosses they hype up are deceiving because they're based on fewer ticket sales and inflation.

I think the state of the music industry is mostly it's own fault, bands hardly even worry about getting signed any more. It doesn't seem like labels support the bands they have and are only interested in what's hot now and are not looking for new talent. So many artists record, mix, master, duplicate their own material, and promote via myspace, facebook, and youtube. It seems as though everyone owns their own label and just seeks a distributor to make sure the music is available in the few music stores that are left.

I remember seeing the first metal cd's like Metallica, and S.O.D., in the mid /late 1980s going on average for $30 or $40,
and then around 1990-92, finally I started seeing reg prices reduced to like $17.99 with vinyl costing only a dollar or two more...

at least the chain stores starting selling cut-outs/deleted cd's on Boxing days for $5-10

thejokeriv wrote:

Exactly!!! Remember when CD's first came out and LP/Cassettes where $5.99 or $6.99 (at the non-mall stores) and then CD's where all of a sudden priced at $17.99???? WTF????? That is crazy!!!! Lower the prices and even the crappy music out today will sell better. And if an album was a HUGE seller back in the day, forget it, they will still charge you an arm and a leg

5.99 ?

I haven't seen prices like that since 1983-84, and didn't see any cd's in stores except a small section,and they cost much more than 17.99

Required Fields wrote:

Good point; pricing plays a factor here as well.

pricing is the factor. Give a ok product at a great price and it will sell. I always find it amusing that labels like Frontiers have excellent product but limit their sales by having too high a price point.

sheets wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

I think the economy argument is beginning to show holes. By that argument, the economy should affect everything. Yet, movie ticket prices go up, popcorn is $6 and there are sill $500 million blockbusters. People still shell out $10 for a movie ticket and $60 for a nw video game. But asking $15 for a CD seems ludicrous to people.

I think your broader point has merit but it does bear mentioning that industries previously thought to be recession-proof, especially the entertainment industry in general, are all suffering. Hollywood has gotten the living crap kicked out of it the past couple of years - the reason movie ticket prices are going up isn't because movies are doing well but because they're doing worse and they're trying to squeeze more out of a shrinking consumer base by jacking up prices. Those huge grosses they hype up are deceiving because they're based on fewer ticket sales and inflation.

I completely see your point. I was only saying that even though the prices keep going up, many people still keep paying it. It comes down to value. More people value the experience of a movie enough to pay $10 for a ticket and $12 for a large Coke and large popcorn while others don't. If the ticket price went up to $12 or $14 they'd still probably pay it (while complaining about it). But many times the same person who would pay $10 for a movie ticket, $60 for a video game or $10 for a 6-pack of import beer would laugh at someone who pays $15 for a CD. Music is seen as disposable whereas movies & other entertainment forms are not...which is why the Blu-Ray section and the console gaming section at Best Buy is growing while the CD section is shrinking.

I wasn't necessarily talking about the economic reasons for high prices...I know why those are what they are.

exact33 wrote:

Required Fields wrote:

Good point; pricing plays a factor here as well.

pricing is the factor. Give a ok product at a great price and it will sell. I always find it amusing that labels like Frontiers have excellent product but limit their sales by having too high a price point.

If Frontiers had a North American base it would not be as bad, I don't think. Even having North American distribution, Frontiers is still an import label. Postage alone from Italy to America drives up the bulk prices to the distributors, which in turn drives up the price we pay for it.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Required Fields wrote:

Good point; pricing plays a factor here as well.

pricing is the factor. Give a ok product at a great price and it will sell. I always find it amusing that labels like Frontiers have excellent product but limit their sales by having too high a price point.

If Frontiers had a North American base it would not be as bad, I don't think. Even having North American distribution, Frontiers is still an import label. Postage alone from Italy to America drives up the bulk prices to the distributors, which in turn drives up the price we pay for it.

true but I know if their cds were $11 or so I would buy a lot more from them. Somebody needs to figure it out!

exact33 wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Required Fields wrote:

Good point; pricing plays a factor here as well.

pricing is the factor. Give a ok product at a great price and it will sell. I always find it amusing that labels like Frontiers have excellent product but limit their sales by having too high a price point.

If Frontiers had a North American base it would not be as bad, I don't think. Even having North American distribution, Frontiers is still an import label. Postage alone from Italy to America drives up the bulk prices to the distributors, which in turn drives up the price we pay for it.

true but I know if their cds were $11 or so I would buy a lot more from them. Somebody needs to figure it out!

The cost after shipping & taxes to an American distributor is probably between $8 and $10 per disc...there's no way they can sell them that cheaply.

And they don't need to. They structure their business around established artists selling "X" number of copies and don't have aspirations of platinum albums or mega-stardom. They put in pretty much only what they know they're going to get back. They're making money, which is a rarity in this business. They know that Journey, for example, will move 10,000 copies of anything on the name alone so they structure their costs around this scenario.

i think music stations are doing fine though. People listen to so much on the go that they don't bother with it when they are home.

I agree with a lot of what's been said in this thread, one thing I would like to add is the controlling that's now been going on in music. Seems like acts are getting hand picked by managers before they get a local following like the old days. These pathetic reality shows on TV are churning out "stars" faster than they can sign them. The real fans are getting left out, and so many people fall for these shows and the soap operas around them.

As for country, this genre has become the biggest joke music has ever seen. Yesterday, I heard Kid Rock on a "country" station singing a rip off tune that sounded like a Wallflowers song. They play the dude from Hootie and the Blowfish constantly, and these are the GOOD SONGS! I am forced to hear this junk at work, and it's driving me nuts.

Getizzyback wrote:

I agree with a lot of what's been said in this thread, one thing I would like to add is the controlling that's now been going on in music. Seems like acts are getting hand picked by managers before they get a local following like the old days. These pathetic reality shows on TV are churning out "stars" faster than they can sign them. The real fans are getting left out, and so many people fall for these shows and the soap operas around them.

As for country, this genre has become the biggest joke music has ever seen. Yesterday, I heard Kid Rock on a "country" station singing a rip off tune that sounded like a Wallflowers song. They play the dude from Hootie and the Blowfish constantly, and these are the GOOD SONGS! I am forced to hear this junk at work, and it's driving me nuts.

Time to put on some ol' Hank Jr.:
"Why do you drink?
Why do you roll smoke?"


Country today is like listening to a Jon Bon Jovi Young Guns Soundtrack.

chewie wrote:

Getizzyback wrote:

I agree with a lot of what's been said in this thread, one thing I would like to add is the controlling that's now been going on in music. Seems like acts are getting hand picked by managers before they get a local following like the old days. These pathetic reality shows on TV are churning out "stars" faster than they can sign them. The real fans are getting left out, and so many people fall for these shows and the soap operas around them.

As for country, this genre has become the biggest joke music has ever seen. Yesterday, I heard Kid Rock on a "country" station singing a rip off tune that sounded like a Wallflowers song. They play the dude from Hootie and the Blowfish constantly, and these are the GOOD SONGS! I am forced to hear this junk at work, and it's driving me nuts.

Time to put on some ol' Hank Jr.:
"Why do you drink?
Why do you roll smoke?"


Country today is like listening to a Jon Bon Jovi Young Guns Soundtrack.

lol! That is so unreal you would say that, about a month ago I put "Country Music is officially Dead, now it's Bon Jovi with an accent" on my facebook page.

overall, I think music is getting somewhat watered down, just not the talent out there now like in years past. A poor guy can start playing the drums when he's a kid, become one of the best ever, but just because he can't get on American Idol, he's forced to quit and get a job.

ultmetal wrote:

TheNazgul wrote:

Quote :

In the music industry, nope, not anymore. The days of letting an artist develop are long gone -it;s all about the instant hit. Make one or you are outta here. Plus the quality of music just blows for the most part these days. The artist still putting out quality music are the ones I listened to back in the day. New artists don;t have it

Yeah, so it's a catch 22.

Anyone watch the Superbowl halftime show? Talking about (lack of) quality of music.

Not only was the quality lacking but the production crew should've been shot.... The biggest stage in the world and the audio is pure......

mr.electric39 wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

TheNazgul wrote:

Quote :

In the music industry, nope, not anymore. The days of letting an artist develop are long gone -it;s all about the instant hit. Make one or you are outta here. Plus the quality of music just blows for the most part these days. The artist still putting out quality music are the ones I listened to back in the day. New artists don;t have it

Yeah, so it's a catch 22.

Anyone watch the Superbowl halftime show? Talking about (lack of) quality of music.

Not only was the quality lacking but the production crew should've been shot.... The biggest stage in the world and the audio is pure......

I agree completely, that was the worst spectacle I've ever seen. From the " talent ", to the audio, to production crew, it was a mess all around.