Does Metal Exist?

I'm not a musician; can't read music; and don't know any music theory; so I'm jumping in way over my head here. However the discussions we have all the time about whether somethign is or isn't "metal" made me think back to a book I read in the 90's called "Runnin' With The Devil"; by Robert Walser(more to do with Eddie VanHalen than religion).
Briefly stated (and poorly understood by me); Walser's thesis is rooted in classical music theory, in which there are various "modes" (progressive musicians would prefer them to be called traditions, saying that there can be an infinite amount of non-traditional modes). Walser contends that much of popular music (other than big band, etc.) before the Rock era was primarily written in the "Ionian" mode, which is pop friendly and melodic. Rock was usually written in the "Aeolian" or Dorian modes, which are blues friendly. According to Walser, most early "Hard Rock" was written in the Aeolian blues based mode, and simply given a more excting "affect" by use of technology (amplification, distortion, fuzzboxes).
Walser credits Richie Blackmore, and several others (Iommi, Tipton/Downing, VanHalen, Malmsteen)for bringing other classical modes into heavy music (usually just for parts of songs here and there, most songs were still blues based); and therefore laying the foundation for the first "real" metal. He says that the first style to make a radical and consistent departure from the Aeolian was Thrash, which uses the "Phrygian" mode, a mode that is slightly dischordant, which creates an affect that when bolstered by technology is extremely stimulating for those that enjoy it. Thus the first real metal. Could it be that this shift between the primary use of the Aeolian mode, to primary use of the Phrygian in heavy music; created the distinction that we talk about when we distinguish "Hard Rock" (Aeolian or Dorian) from "Metal" (Phrygian or other non-traditional modes created by progressive experimentation)? Or is the guy just full of it? I really couldn't tell you, but I'm hoping some of you musicians might have something to add to this.

*blank stare*

He has a point, in my opinion. There is little to distinguish Chopan from Exodus when the music itself is broken down into theory. It's all about chords, notes, tempos and how these are arranged.

I took a musical theory class my senior year of high school. What you've brought up jives with what I learned in said class.

Thanks for the input, because I read that whole book years ago, and was pretty much left with a blank stare too. The simplist thing was on page 47, where Walser lays out the riff to Smoke on the Water in Aeolian, Ionian, and Phyrgian; and claims it sounds respectivly like Deep Purple, Pat Boone, or Megadeth, depending on the mode it is played in. I'm too ignorant to even plunk this out on a piano to see if I can follow his point though. Next time there's a musician around, I'll ask them to do this for me.
Sideshow; this is why I ask if metal exists. Can it be seen as just an amplified variation of old classical traditions, played by bands that feature guitar etc.? Or do you think it has created it's own mode(s); to some degree?

SAHB Healer wrote:

I'm not a musician; can't read music; and don't know any music theory; so I'm jumping in way over my head here. However the discussions we have all the time about whether somethign is or isn't "metal" made me think back to a book I read in the 90's called "Runnin' With The Devil"; by Robert Walser(more to do with Eddie VanHalen than religion).
Briefly stated (and poorly understood by me); Walser's thesis is rooted in classical music theory, in which there are various "modes" (progressive musicians would prefer them to be called traditions, saying that there can be an infinite amount of non-traditional modes). Walser contends that much of popular music (other than big band, etc.) before the Rock era was primarily written in the "Ionian" mode, which is pop friendly and melodic. Rock was usually written in the "Aeolian" or Dorian modes, which are blues friendly. According to Walser, most early "Hard Rock" was written in the Aeolian blues based mode, and simply given a more excting "affect" by use of technology (amplification, distortion, fuzzboxes).
Walser credits Richie Blackmore, and several others (Iommi, Tipton/Downing, VanHalen, Malmsteen)for bringing other classical modes into heavy music (usually just for parts of songs here and there, most songs were still blues based); and therefore laying the foundation for the first "real" metal. He says that the first style to make a radical and consistent departure from the Aeolian was Thrash, which uses the "Phrygian" mode, a mode that is slightly dischordant, which creates an affect that when bolstered by technology is extremely stimulating for those that enjoy it. Thus the first real metal. Could it be that this shift between the primary use of the Aeolian mode, to primary use of the Phrygian in heavy music; created the distinction that we talk about when we distinguish "Hard Rock" (Aeolian or Dorian) from "Metal" (Phrygian or other non-traditional modes created by progressive experimentation)? Or is the guy just full of it? I really couldn't tell you, but I'm hoping some of you musicians might have something to add to this.

Allright, I have read theories to this effect before, and while they are intruiguing ... and they can be sucessfully applied in a general sense, there are countless specific examples that could be used to say the theory doesn't hold any water.

For some background, the 'modes' are all derived from the same scale. The Ionian mode you speak of is the basic natural major scale, the regular do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do scale that you learned when you were in 3rd grade (or from The Sound of Music ). We all know that one, and yes, it is freindly, melodic, basic sounding.

The "modes" are created using the same scale but starting and stoppin in a different position. The Aeolian mode, for example, is a fancy way of referring to the regular old everyday minor scale. Take out the second and sixth intervals from the scale and you are left with the "pentatonic" minor scale, or the basic scale that blues and rock are built on.

On the one hand, heavy metal seemed to become its own genre once the "blues" influence of the hard rock scene was abandonded. Meaning when bands like Judas Priest began to make music that referred to itself as "heavy metal" as its own genre rather than "heavy metal" as a division of hard rock, and they did this by deviating from the reliance upon the basic I-IV-V chord structure of blues and rock. This is where the "melodic" characteristic of heavy metal came from. On the other hand, deviating from the basic chord structure doesn't necesarilly mean you aren't using the same mode you were before. Quite the opposite, in the case of early bands like Judas Preist and Iron Maiden, who many times were still using the same old minor scale as before.

Now, the phrygian scale is another major mode; it is the third mode if one starts with the Ionian and plays the modes in sequence. The phrygian is also a minor mode, but the 2nd interval is flattened, leaving the scale as a whole with a very "mediterranean" feel to it. It is not dischordant in the way that the diminished scale is, and it was used heavily in the thrash movement. Like I was saying, this is all true, but not universal. For example, the song Creeping Death by Metallica is built upon the "mediterranean" feel of the phrygian mode. However, the song "Jump in the Fire" is built on a basic pentatonic scale, which as I said earlier, is simply a minor scale with some notes removed.

What I'm trying to get at with all this babbling is that ... according to this guy's theory, "Creeping Death" is a heavy metal song, whereas "Jump in the Fire" is not. Now does that make sense to you?

Another defninite thrash band, Venom, based 99% of its riffs, solos, music in general on the pentatonic scale, or the "blues" scale. Is Venom not a heavy metal band? There are tons of examples I could think of.

Like I said, it's intruiguing, but it's not universal, unless there's something I'm missing.

SAHB Healer wrote:

Sideshow; this is why I ask if metal exists. Can it be seen as just an amplified variation of old classical traditions, played by bands that feature guitar etc.? Or do you think it has created it's own mode(s); to some degree?

Of course it exists. Though the theory behind the music is the same, the sound is not. If everything with notes thrown together was simply called music, you wouldn't know if the CD, tape, vinyl, whatever you are looking at is something you like. Even though when broken down it all falls into a basic catagory, there are some differences. Chord progressions, tempo, etc are arranged differently and are received differently. Hence, we create "genres".

This is one of those cases where an oxymoron certainly applies. "It's all the same, but completely different."

Um...I'm apparently too dumb to understand a single thing that's been said in this thread thus far, so I'm just gonna go now.

Saxon is Metal.

I don't think it's really possible to define a genre by what particular modes are in use. For instance, is it still thrash when Testament covers Aerosmieth W/O using the phrygian mode? I think so.

Wow, awesome input, and well put. Theory is interesting, but a definition of Metal remains subjective, especially when you factor in things like image and subject matter. And clearly even if you try and pin it down, it will still vary from song to song within the same band's canon. All this makes me more appreciative of how creative, progressive, and diverse Metal has been. It's not "stupid" music at all; which is the point (after all the theorizing) that I think Walser was trying to make.

SAXON1500 wrote:

Saxon is Metal.

Damn straight.

GlassPrison wrote:

I don't think it's really possible to define a genre by what particular modes are in use. For instance, is it still thrash when Testament covers Aerosmieth W/O using the phrygian mode? I think so.

That's basically what I was saying, though much more concisely put

Why would anyone want to "intellectualize" metal? Here's the thing - Ya go to a show, get in the pit, draw some blood, bang your head, mosh it up and get sweaty, score some chicks (from what I remember), go home at 2 a.m. and crank Master of Puppets until the old guy next door calls the cops again.

Like punk, metal is an attitude and a lifestyle, moreso than a bunch of notes strung together. Of course metal exists! I live it every day! You guys are ruining it for me!

Please take this all tongue-in-cheek.

I completelyagree man.

That's why I dislike intellectual metal so much in the first place. And it's more than even the focus on "this mode is metal andthis one isn't" etc. I dislike when people take something that is so AWESOME in its primal, ripped up state, and try to turn it into something polished, clean, and "deep".

Does Metal Exist?I say yes.If not then we sure do waste alot of time on here talking about something non existent:)

metal music is a form of entertainment... not different in concept than a Hilary Duff album. it's there to appeal to a specific group who seeks such fulfillment. it's not a lifestyle, it's not a family or brotherhood, it's not a passion, it's not a complicated art form.

it's a genre of music presented & marketed as something specific... in this case rebellious. i buy it.

It IS a lifestyle. If it wasn't, then you could say Liefstyles don't exist.

homosexuality is a lifestyle.. a form of musical entertainment is not... just my opinion of course.

No homosexuality usually involves thingys going into regions that are exit only.

But yes I understand what you are saying about the modes. I think that depending on what style of metal you are playing, you probably won't ALWAYS play in the same mode all the time. I mean I don't expect Mortification and Nelson to be playing the exact same mode for their songs.

However, I do think that even if metal IS played in a mode that isn't COMPLETELY defined then it still should be...defined that is. Because these modes would have needed to have been created in the first place and what better tahn for METAL to create its own musical form to become? :D