What do you do for work?

Yeah, trade jobs are becoming premium as lazy Americans don't want to work hard.

Dark Horseman wrote:

Yeah, trade jobs are becoming premium as lazy Americans don't want to work hard.

Pretty sure most trades are more physically demanding than most jobs out there, so I wouldn't say they're lazy.

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Dark Horseman wrote:

Yeah, trade jobs are becoming premium as lazy Americans don't want to work hard.

Pretty sure most trades are more physically demanding than most jobs out there, so I wouldn't say they're lazy.

I think that's what DH was saying:

Trade jobs ARE physically demanding and a lot of Americans are too lazy to do them hence the shortage we see.

Here's another example:

A few years ago I was washing my hummingbird feeder when the metal hanger from the feeder went down the drain and locked up my garbage disposal.  Before I could shut the disposal off the motor had burned out (it was old).

So I called the local repair company I always use for stuff like that.  When the guy showed up he had a kid with him who had to be less than 20 years old.  The guy asked me if it was OK if the kid came in too as he was an apprentice and learning the job.  Of course I said it was fine and the guy proceeded to show the kid how to install a new garbage disposal and explained why he was doing things he was doing.

I sat there thinking to myself "Geez, this kid is probably 19 at most.  He's got a job and is learning useful skills.  What the hell was I doing at that age?  Studying English Lit and diagramming sentences."

The days of "You have to go to college to get a good job" are LONG gone...

tohostudios wrote:

Wrecked Neck wrote:

Dark Horseman wrote:

Yeah, trade jobs are becoming premium as lazy Americans don't want to work hard.

Pretty sure most trades are more physically demanding than most jobs out there, so I wouldn't say they're lazy.

I think that's what DH was saying:

Trade jobs ARE physically demanding and a lot of Americans are too lazy to do them hence the shortage we see.

Ah, maybe I read it wrong. My current trade job of truck driving has been kicking my ass this week, and I've only gotten about ten hours of sleep this week.

Speaking of lazy Americans, wish I weren't one when I was a kid. I had a job with a plumber when I was that kids age you talked about in your other post. I worked a full two days for him before I decided getting up at 5am to go dig a ditch just wasn't for me. Back then I was happier getting as drunk as I could, and never thought about a career. He was as totally willing to teach me everything he knew and I just blew it off.

Eh, the same thing happens in college.

Most of the kids I knew my freshman and sophomore years were just like me; more interesting in partying and getting laid than actually learning anything.  I didn't wise up until my junior year when it hit me that in two years I actually needed to make a living for myself.

And we actually spent money while doing that. At least you blew it off without spending thousands.

Mike Rowe from the show Dirty Jobs has been a outspoken supporter of promoting the trade route option. He has been actively campaigning for schools to teach kids that you can make a good living without the headache and debt of college degrees.

And he's 10000% right!

Assuming a person enjoys doing that kind of work (which after all IS super-critical) trade is the way to go.

Me? I'd HATE doing jobs like that. Not because I'm lazy or afraid of physical labor but because I SUCK at it and I know it. I have zero manual dexterity so I need a job where mental gymnastics are a plus and fortunately I found it.

But I'll say it again, if I had a child I'd strongly encourage he/she to consider the trade route.

A lot of people attend college because they believe it will lead to a high paying job or they attend because of family tradition and their parents expected it. It seems like everyone that looks back after 20 years always says it wasn’t worth it.

It definitely wasn't for me.

After finding out what a BA in English was worth on the open job market, my late father recommended I go to "programming school" because he had heard that computer programming would be the next big thing (this was around 1983). Thankfully I listened to him and the rest is history but I could have skipped those intervening 4 years AND the expense and just gone to "programming school" and most likely ended up exactly where I am now without spending all that money.

Of course there are all the "intangibles" of the "college experience" and I guess there is something to be said about a "well rounded education" but I'm pretty sure that if I'd skipped college and jumped right into IT via an "IT trade school" my life would be pretty much what it is now and I and my parents would have thousands more in the bank.

Side note: I'll say it again but this thread has been a real interesting read and hopefully maybe encouraging to some of the younger people or parents thereof.

Academia for me. I just finished my PhD (in art history), and received a postdoc fellowship at Harvard for next year, which will allow me to work on research and completing my first book project.

Congrats GP!

Although to be honest I have only the vaguest idea what that actually means.

But "fellowship at Harvard" certainly sounds impressive.

Wow - Super awesome GP!!!

I did not make it out of 10th grade and still built a 7 figure business with 14 sub-contractors and 2 employees. If my uneducated slacker ass can do it, anyone can!!!

glassprison wrote:

Academia for me. I just finished my PhD (in art history), and received a postdoc fellowship at Harvard for next year, which will allow me to work on research and completing my first book project.

Congrats! I guess you’re one of the few exceptions.

Dark Horseman wrote:

Yeah, trade jobs are becoming premium as lazy Americans don't want to work hard.

Agreed. A paper mill is hard, intensive labor on 12 hour shifts, sometimes 16. There is no AC and the Florida heat bears down while you work. You are either a man or a kid. (There is AC in the breakrooms and control rooms). A lot of our new hires are young but don't want to work. You can make as much money as you want here if you are willing to put in the time and the overtime. Many of them last a few months then bail out. Those of us that hang around stay a long time. We have people who have been here 45 years! I'm going on 15 years and don't plan on ever leaving.

My 17 year old daughter goes to a charter school and they focus on classes where kids will be a success. She is interested in Culinary Arts and surprisingly it pays well if you can find a decent job. I guess good chefs are in high demand, after all people will always want food. They also have classes on CSI and she has an interest in that as well. She isn't sure what she wants to do and she wants to go to college either at FSU in Tallahassee or FSU here in Panama City (a much smaller campus that offers 4 year degrees). They have several other areas of study at her school that aren't the tradional ones (I don't know all of them). She also has an interest in Civil Law and loves to debate so that is an option for her as well. As long as she is happy I'm ok with whatever she does.

I grew up in a middle class neighborhood with a lot of good kids. 100 % of my group of friends all graduated from college and I believe I am the "least" successful of all of them. Most of them were pretty smart and several are doctors, engineers and accountants. I was never smart enough to do any of that but I believe if I applied myself better I could have done something different. As some of you stated I was more interested in having fun in college. I picked Communications because I wanted to be in radio. I had no interest in anything else and when I finished school I realized that 99% of the DJ's were burnouts who never went to college and were happy making 30 grand a year or less. I am also terrible in math and Communications required very little so it was (what I thought) a good choice at the time.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Great thread!! Tons of great points.

My wife is a counselor (of the mind, not guidance) at a local university and I'd say 50% of her clients are simply kids who aren't "college material" and have no business being there. Most of the time that's not for lack of intelligence, but simply personality/aptitude/interest. In other words, they would be better off reading this thread from a bunch of middle-aged dudes who've been-there/done-that and looking for a trade.

Continuing the theme of nice paying trades/labor jobs: Ask your wife how much she pays to get her hair done. Ask your old neighbor how much s/he pays to have their lawn mowed or their pool cleaned.

Ask me how much I'm paying to have my fence fixed!!

IF!! IF you have a definitive plan with the requisite ability, then college may be for you...but these days it really is something to think about.

I had a very similar experience to Toho: I called for pest control and the normal guy didn't show up. Some 18-20 year old kid showed up. He said he was the apprentice and was being groomed to take over in 5-10 years. SMART MOVE!!! He was very mature and professional and by his mid-20s will have a business and NOT a 5-6 figure student debt to pay back.

Both routes work, as long as it fits YOU and you have the right mindset for that direction.

Me? Bible college degree...and I drive a firetruck!! Go figure.

Also: GP that's freaking fantastic! I feel like we've watched you grow up on this board. See, you SHOULD have gone to college. It was the right call for you.

Uncle Saxon - You are the exception to the rule, though. It speaks to you and your drive, but still not something I'd recommend to anyone young person. I'd be curious how quickly that took place, or was your business something that was years (with lots of blood, sweat, tears, etc...) in the making?

Great, great thread!!

Scott, I'll ask - how much are you paying for your fence? LOL!

Hurricane Michael took most of my backyard chain link fence out. It was too much to replace so I had it repaired. It looks like crap but for $1000 I had it repaired as best it could.

Quote :

See, you SHOULD have gone to college. It was the right call for you.

Yeah, because my career objective is university professor/publishing academic it was absolutely necessary to get a PhD. Admittedly, there are probably very few career trajectories where this degree is something worth pursing though.

Quote :

Although to be honest I have only the vaguest idea what that actually means

Postdoctoral fellowships are usually set up as a stage in between a PhD program and getting a job at a university. Mine is just one year, and basically it means I'll get paid a modest salary from Harvard with virtually no time consuming requirements like teaching or advising obligations. It's purely for research and for turning my dissertation into a publishable book manuscript, which would take a lot longer if I had to do it in whatever free time I happened to have while holding a university job. There is hardly any accountability so the application process is quite grueling because they want to make sure the candidates have a proven track record going into it. It should be a productive year, and I've never set foot in Boston so I'm looking forward to that!

The downside about academia is that I've practically had to be willing to pack my life in a couple of suitcases every year to head off somewhere else for a 10-12 month period. I've had a lot of great experiences around the world, but at the same time there is not a lot of stability or opportunity to really get settled in to one place. Someday though!

Another former English major here, for all the good it did me. Back in college, I thought I'd become a big time jet setting rock journalist, riding along in Metallica's tour bus to get a cover story for Rolling Stone. (Remember that movie Almost Famous? That's kind of how I pictured it.) 25+ years later, my "writing career" consists of a blog that some of you guys are nice enough to read (for which I thank you), haha.

My oldest son is a sophomore in HS and a year or so ago he told my wife and I straight up that he wasn't interested in college. He's good with his hands and tinkering with mechanical stuff so we're encouraging him to head in that direction. When he's not at school, he and his friends are in my driveway or on my front deck, working on their dirt bikes, taking apart small engines, etc. He's actually got a pretty good side hustle going -- he'll pick up old bicycles that people leave out for trash, take'em home and fix 'em up, then he sells'em on Craigslist. Right now he's in the middle of bringing an old go-kart back from the dead. I wish I had that kind of talent. He definitely doesn't get it from my side of the family.

scottmitchell74 wrote:

IF you have a definitive plan with the requisite ability, then college may be for you...but these days it really is something to think about.

Bingo! This, this right here dammit!

I have been telling my kids since they were old enough to understand, HAVE A PLAN. If you want to go to college, you should have at least a basic idea of what you want to be when you grow up beforehand, otherwise it's a waste of everyone's time and money. It is not a place to "find yourself."

...unfortunately I didn't have a f**king clue what I wanted to do when I started college, and my dumb ass thought I would figure it out as I went along.

(buzzer sound) WRONG.

I was the first person in my family to go to college... and now that I think about it all these years later, I didn't do it so much because I wanted to, but thanks to constant hype from my parents/grandparents and school counselors, I thought it was the thing I was supposed to do.  My naive high-school ass totally bought into the B.S. idea that simply having a college degree in your hand was an instant Willy Wonka golden ticket to the job of my dreams. I thought that on the day I graduated I'd walk out of campus and there'd be employers lined up outside the gate, waiting to snatch me up. ("Oh my gawd! You're A COLLEGE GRADUATE! Pleeeease come work for us, sir! We will pay you a ridiculous salary to revitalize our industry with your youthful energies! Here's a corner office, some minions to do your evil bidding, and a secretary with loose morals and large breasts!")

...for some reason, it never occurred to me that there would be millions of other new grads coming out of other schools at the same time as me, with the same damn degree as me, looking for those same jobs...but THEY had PLANS.

... I wasn't a total f*** up in college, I went to my classes and got (mostly) decent grades, but it wasn't till my junior year that it occurred to me that maybe I should be, y'know, working towards something instead of just taking random courses. I had changed my major a couple of times during my first two years, which then put me behind the 8 ball in my last two. I was all over the place, depending on what my interests were at any given time. First I wanted to get into the comic book industry, then I thought about becoming a journalist/reporter, or maybe an editorial cartoonist, THEN I thought maybe I could work in P.R., or do something in the music industry, etc., etc.

So anyway... I graduated college in 1992 with a BA in English and unsurprisingly, no job prospects (I hadn't even landed any interviews!). I ended up moving back into my parents' house, where I worked in a K-Mart for almost two years. It sucked, but it gave me a much needed dose of humility. (It also gave me a drinking problem, 20 extra pounds, and an increased hatred for humanity at large, but that's a whole 'nother story. Remember the movie "Clerks?" That was pretty much my life during my K-Mart period).

While I worked for K-Mart I kept applying for jobs in the industries I mentioned above, but due to a toxic combo of fear of failure and general naivete about how the real world worked, nothing came out of it. The closest I ever came to a "real" writing job was when I interviewed for a copy-editing position at a magazine publisher. I didn't know till I got there that I would be working on porn mags like Swank, Erotic X Film Guide, etc. I swear to God. (As hilarious as the job sounded, I ended up turning it down, cuz the pay was even worse than what I'd been pulling down at K-Mart.)

Eventually I landed a behind-the-scenes job at the local newspaper doing data entry, pre-press paste-ups, typesetting, and issue layouts, and that's where I've been for the last damn near 25 years. I've survived a couple of buy-outs, numerous layoff sandwiches, and I hope to squeeze at least a few more years out of it before the Internet finishes destroying the industry altogether. I'm not sure if that means I'm insanely dedicated, or I'm just a dumb son of a bitch who's trapped because he doesn't know how to do anything else.

...sorry for the rant but yeah... in a nutshell, if I had it to do all over again, I would definitely do it differently, from my choice of school on down.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Another former English major here, for all the good it did me. Back in college, I thought I'd become a big time jet setting rock journalist, riding along in Metallica's tour bus to get a cover story for Rolling Stone. (Remember that movie Almost Famous? That's kind of how I pictured it.) 25+ years later, my "writing career" consists of a blog that some of you guys are nice enough to read (for which I thank you), haha.

My oldest son is a sophomore in HS and a year or so ago he told my wife and I straight up that he wasn't interested in college. He's good with his hands and tinkering with mechanical stuff so we're encouraging him to head in that direction. When he's not at school, he and his friends are in my driveway or on my front deck, working on their dirt bikes, taking apart small engines, etc. He's actually got a pretty good side hustle going -- he'll pick up old bicycles that people leave out for trash, take'em home and fix 'em up, then he sells'em on Craigslist. Right now he's in the middle of bringing an old go-kart back from the dead. I wish I had that kind of talent. He definitely doesn't get it from my side of the family.

Bingo! There ya go! That's what I'm talking about. People need to stop forcing their kids into college and instead encourage them to pursue something they have an aptitude for and enjoy doing.

tohostudios wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Another former English major here, for all the good it did me. Back in college, I thought I'd become a big time jet setting rock journalist, riding along in Metallica's tour bus to get a cover story for Rolling Stone. (Remember that movie Almost Famous? That's kind of how I pictured it.) 25+ years later, my "writing career" consists of a blog that some of you guys are nice enough to read (for which I thank you), haha.

My oldest son is a sophomore in HS and a year or so ago he told my wife and I straight up that he wasn't interested in college. He's good with his hands and tinkering with mechanical stuff so we're encouraging him to head in that direction. When he's not at school, he and his friends are in my driveway or on my front deck, working on their dirt bikes, taking apart small engines, etc. He's actually got a pretty good side hustle going -- he'll pick up old bicycles that people leave out for trash, take'em home and fix 'em up, then he sells'em on Craigslist. Right now he's in the middle of bringing an old go-kart back from the dead. I wish I had that kind of talent. He definitely doesn't get it from my side of the family.

Bingo!  There ya go!  That's what I'm talking about.  People need to stop forcing their kids into college and instead encourage them to pursue something they have an aptitude for and enjoy doing.  

Exactly! There is no shame in pursuing a career without a degree as long as you can tap into whatever it is you are good at. Skip all the debt BS.