"Big Four" of other metal genres.

kmorg wrote:

Influence is of course important, but album sales and popularity was what made the original Big 4.

That said, how can Watchtower beat Rush in either case!

Simple. Because WATCHTOWER is a prog METAL band and RUSH is a prog ROCK band.

Temple of Blood wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Influence is of course important, but album sales and popularity was what made the original Big 4.

That said, how can Watchtower beat Rush in either case!

Simple. Because WATCHTOWER is a prog METAL band and RUSH is a prog ROCK band.

Pfft..... I disagree.

I've never considered Rush to be even remotely metal. In 1982 my favorite two albums were "The Number of The Beast" and "Signals". If you listen to those two records they are definitely not the same style music.

S.D. wrote:

I've never considered Rush to be even remotely metal. In 1982 my favorite two albums were "The Number of The Beast" and "Signals". If you listen to those two records they are definitely not the same style music.

If you listen to Raven's Rock Til Your Drop and Samson's Survivors you'd say they were not the same style music, yet both were bands from the New Wave of British Heavy Metal from roughly the same time. Same would hold true if you compare Venom to Diamond Head, or Iron Maiden to Def Leppard's debut. However, it all fit under that NWOBHM umbrella.

At the same time if you compare Yes to Rush you'd also say they were not the same style music, yet both bands are considered progressive rock. Rush was much heavier and less classically inspired than Yes.

Rush at the time of "Signals" moved away from the heavier progressive stuff into more pop-oriented rock. It was less about guitars and that heavy roaring Rickenbacker bass and more about pop song structures, keyboards and hit singles. The band admits to that. However, their 70's stuff was dark, heavy and progressive for the time. Can you get any heavier or any more progressive than "By-Tor and the Snow Dog"? One of the forefathers of progressive metal for sure, just like Sabbath are the forefathers of heavy metal and doom.

God, how I hate ridiculous subgenre labels like "Glam Metal" (how the f#ck does that even make sense?), "Folk Metal" and whatnot - seriously, does any form of heavy music with a slight stylistic/visual change really have to be made into an entirely new genre? What's next, Miscellaneous Tools Metal?

Mglaffas81 wrote:

God, how I hate ridiculous subgenre labels like "Glam Metal" (how the f#ck does that even make sense?), "Folk Metal" and whatnot - seriously, does any form of heavy music with a slight stylistic/visual change really have to be made into an entirely new genre? What's next, Miscellaneous Tools Metal?

Well, maybe I shouldn't have had glam as an option since it's not so metal like the rest. At least I didn't add nu metal and metalcore as well. Also, folk metal is listened to widely by the metal community.

Quote :

Can you get any heavier or any more progressive than "By-Tor and the Snow Dog"?

Yes. Absolutely.

RUSH had some songs that I would consider metal, but really no whole albums.

The bulk of their material throughout their career is prog rock/prog hard rock.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Quote :

Can you get any heavier or any more progressive than "By-Tor and the Snow Dog"?

Yes. Absolutely.

RUSH had some songs that I would consider metal, but really no whole albums.

The bulk of their material throughout their career is prog rock/prog hard rock.

Really? Name it. What other prog band from the early 70's was that heavy, that dark and that progressive?

Of course I don't want to start the genre war with you, seeing is how you don't believe heavy metal existed in the 1970's outside of a handful of British bands.

ultmetal wrote:

Really? Name it. What other prog band from the early 70's was that heavy, that dark and that progressive?

I'd probably say UK (late 70s) or King Crimson.

(Not sure why genres have to be defined by the decade in which the songs were originally written but I know that is a big part of your way of examining music.)

Mglaffas81 wrote:

God, how I hate ridiculous subgenre labels like "Glam Metal" (how the f#ck does that even make sense?), "Folk Metal" and whatnot - seriously, does any form of heavy music with a slight stylistic/visual change really have to be made into an entirely new genre? What's next, Miscellaneous Tools Metal?

they are more descriptors of the style of metal than they are actual sub genres.

Temple of Blood wrote:

King Crimson.

Definitely. Lark's Tongue In Aspic Parts 1 & 2, Fracture, Starless, Red, One More Red Nightmare, Providence, Pictures Of A City, etc.

Much darker than Rush, WAY more progressive (mostly improvisational while Rush is all written out) and when they wanted to Crimson could be heavier and more intense than anybody.

Rush basically took the Led Zeppelin (another band that influenced metal but were never a metal band themselves) template and added in some slightly more progressive elements.

Death metal:

Death
Possessed
Morbid Angel
Cannibal Corpse

Euro Power Metal:

Helloween
Blind Guardian
Gamma Ray
Hammerfall

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

PUNK (original)

Social Distortion
The Vandals
Sex Pistols
The Clash

No Ramones? Pffft.

Whoops! I forgot about them.

S.D. wrote:

Rush basically took the Led Zeppelin (another band that influenced metal but were never a metal band themselves) template and added in some slightly more progressive elements.

Bingo!

Temple of Blood wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Rush basically took the Led Zeppelin (another band that influenced metal but were never a metal band themselves) template and added in some slightly more progressive elements.

Bingo!

The Led Zep connection is most obvious on the S/T debut, but once Peart is on the drums, the "progressive elements" begin to pull them away from that comparison. More than "slightly more" too. I agree with ult; the first few albums are guitar-driven, 70s-style progressive metal. King Crimson is heavy in their own way and admittedly more progressive, but is almost an apples to oranges comparison with Rush.

QuothTheRaven wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Rush basically took the Led Zeppelin (another band that influenced metal but were never a metal band themselves) template and added in some slightly more progressive elements.

Bingo!

The Led Zep connection is most obvious on the S/T debut, but once Peart is on the drums, the "progressive elements" begin to pull them away from that comparison. More than "slightly more" too. I agree with ult; the first few albums are guitar-driven, 70s-style progressive metal. King Crimson is heavy in their own way and admittedly more progressive, but is almost an apples to oranges comparison with Rush.

Indeed!

Like I said, Rush are one of the forefathers of progressive metal in much the same way that Black Sabbath are the forefathers of heavy metal and doom. Call 'em progressive rock, call them progressive metal, call them progressive proto-metal. They fit into all those neatly much the way the Sabbath are both heavy metal and hard rock.

glam/sleaze...

Motley Crue
Ratt
Poison
Def Leppard
.............
speed metal...

Metallica
Megadeth
Testament
Anvil
............
Heavy Metal...

Motorhead
Iron Maiden
Saxon
Riot
...........
Doom Metal...

Black Sabbath
Place Of Skulls
Trouble
Saint Vitus
........
progressive metal

Dream Theater
Queensryche
Rush
Kings X
..........
Power Metal..

Manowar
Hammerfall
Firewind
Accept

Power Metal (Classic Definition):

Fates Warning
Savatage
Metal Church
Armored Saint

Power Metal (Modern Definition):

Blind Guardian
Helloween
Gamma Ray
Stratovarius

Death/Doom:

My Dying Bride
Paradise Lost
Theatre Of Tragedy
Anathema

Symphonic metal:

Rhapsody
Kamelot
Nightwish
Therion

Jesusandmetal23 wrote:

Death metal:

Death
Possessed
Morbid Angel
Cannibal Corpse

Euro Power Metal:

Helloween
Blind Guardian
Gamma Ray
Hammerfall

would have replced gamma ray with grave digger though

Gilbert wrote:

Jesusandmetal23 wrote:

Death metal:

Death
Possessed
Morbid Angel
Cannibal Corpse

Euro Power Metal:

Helloween
Blind Guardian
Gamma Ray
Hammerfall

would have replced gamma ray with grave digger though

I would have gone with GD too but Gamma Ray is much more well known.

Anyone else?

Sure,why not?

The Big 4 of AOR

Foreigner
Journey
Toto
Survivor

And Boston was the Father of AOR.

The Big 4 of US Power Metal

Metal Church
Helstar
Vicious Rumors
Jag Panzer

The Big 4 of Speed Metal

Agent Steel
Exciter
Abattoir
Savage Grace

The Big 4 of 80s French Metal

Trust
Sortilege
Blaspheme
ADX

How about the Big 4 of NWOBHM?
Iron Maiden
Saxon
Raven
Diamond Head

Or the Big 6 of NWOBHM

Raven
Angel Witch
Satan
Savage
Blitzkrieg
Tokyo Blade

The Big 5 of British Heavy Metal

Black Sabbath
Rainbow
Judas Priest
Iron Maiden
Saxon

The Big 5 of British Classic Hard Rock

Led Zeppelin
Deep Purple
Uriah Heep
Queen
UFO

Classic American Hard Rock
Aerosmith
Kiss
Ted Nugent
Alice Cooper