Heavy Metal of the 1970s...

I just realized something. The term "heavy metal" is antiquated itself.The more established press still uses the term, but more and more,the press seems to use the generic,all-purpose "metal" tag to describe a bands music.The more knowledgeable metal press usually will describe a band with sub-genre intact. Are there really any newer bands who's music is described as "heavy metal"? To me, Sabbath was a heavy metal band first,later to be labeled doom, and Priest was heavy metal band before being labeled "power metal". Heavy metal to me describes the music of 1970 to 1989.1989 being a good cut off date because that's about around the time Bllind Guardian debuted, and they were a retro heavy metal band, taking the early sounds of Omen, Helloween, Deadly Blessing etc and doing something interesting with traditional metal. B.G. being the first band I remember being called,"power metal" as a distinct genre.And then there's what I call Early American Power Metal, examples being Metal Church,Meliah Rage,Sanctuary, Heretic,Damien,Liege Lord etc which I believe are bands whose sound is heavier than European Power Metal, but not as heavy as Thrash, Black, or Death. In my opinon the term "heavy metal" became a useless description, the word "heavy" not even necessary, it's actually redundant. Metal IS heavy.

In fact why isn't this forum called the "heart of heavy metal"? I know why!! It sounds stupid!

troublemagnet wrote:

I just realized something. The term "heavy metal" is antiquated itself.The more established press still uses the term, but more and more,the press seems to use the generic,all-purpose "metal" tag to describe a bands music.The more knowledgeable metal press usually will describe a band with sub-genre intact. Are there really any newer bands who's music is described as "heavy metal"? To me, Sabbath was a heavy metal band first,later to be labeled doom, and Priest was heavy metal band before being labeled "power metal". Heavy metal to me describes the music of 1970 to 1989.1989 being a good cut off date because that's about around the time Bllind Guardian debuted, and they were a retro heavy metal band, taking the early sounds of Omen, Helloween, Deadly Blessing etc and doing something interesting with traditional metal. B.G. being the first band I remember being called,"power metal" as a distinct genre.And then there's what I call Early American Power Metal, examples being Metal Church,Meliah Rage,Sanctuary, Heretic,Damien,Liege Lord etc which I believe are bands whose sound is heavier than European Power Metal, but not as heavy as Thrash, Black, or Death. In my opinon the term "heavy metal" became a useless description, the word "heavy" not even necessary, it's actually redundant. Metal IS heavy.

Excellent post!

The real question is: Does anyone really care??? All this debate does is further divide us - not unify us. I think Jeff Keith once said:

Heavy metal, hard-core, punk, pop, or thrash.
You can call it anything it don't matter to me.
Call it what you want.
It's all music to me.

for anyone interested in very early metal- I'd submit that the following albums have most of the elements that we require of the term "Heavy Metal". They all have at least a couple of songs that are not only loud, but also dark and/or gothic, as well as being very extreme for their time (all 1972 or earlier). In order of general heaviness IMO.

Black Sabbath- Master of Reality
Black Sabbath- Paranoid
Jerusalem (UK)- s/t
Bang- s/t
Sir Lord Baltimore- s/t (or was it called My Kingdom Come?)
Budgie- s/t
Black Sabbath- s/t
Night Sun- Mournin'
Lucifer's Friend- s/t

others with a several or a couple of songs at least

Tucky Buzzard- Warm Slash
Trapeze- Medusa
High Tide- Sea Shanties (sort of)

I'd also recommend a couple of excellent albums that wern't really exteme, but they were as dark as Atomic Rooster or Uriah Heep, and louder too. Metal by accident perhaps.

T2- It'll All Work Out In Boomland
Steel Mill- Green Eyed God (not sure of the year on that one).

It's fun to listen to this old stuff everytime this discussion comes up here.

UNCLE SAXON wrote:

The real question is: Does anyone really care??? All this debate does is further divide us - not unify us. I think Jeff Keith once said:

Heavy metal, hard-core, punk, pop, or thrash.
You can call it anything it don't matter to me.
Call it what you want.
It's all music to me.

Indeed. However, it was still a thoughtful debate IMO. Though the debate wasn't my intention for the thread, I appreciate ToB taking the time to get me fired up. Keeps things interesting and makes me think.

SAHB Healer wrote:

for anyone interested in very early metal- I'd submit that the following albums have most of the elements that we require of the term "Heavy Metal". They all have at least a couple of songs that are not only loud, but also dark and/or gothic, as well as being very extreme for their time (all 1972 or earlier). In order of general heaviness IMO.

Black Sabbath- Master of Reality
Black Sabbath- Paranoid
Jerusalem (UK)- s/t
Bang- s/t
Sir Lord Baltimore- s/t (or was it called My Kingdom Come?)
Budgie- s/t
Black Sabbath- s/t
Night Sun- Mournin'
Lucifer's Friend- s/t

others with a several or a couple of songs at least

Tucky Buzzard- Warm Slash
Trapeze- Medusa
High Tide- Sea Shanties (sort of)

I'd also recommend a couple of excellent albums that wern't really exteme, but they were as dark as Atomic Rooster or Uriah Heep, and louder too. Metal by accident perhaps.

T2- It'll All Work Out In Boomland
Steel Mill- Green Eyed God (not sure of the year on that one).

It's fun to listen to this old stuff everytime this discussion comes up here.

Great list Mark and to answer your question it was Sir Lord Baltimore-Kingdom Come the S/T album came out in '71 and was slower than KC.

thejokeriv wrote:

Would love to have ALL of these.

What's that article on Heavy Metal about in the 1978 Hit Parader?

ultmetal wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

Would love to have ALL of these.

What's that article on Heavy Metal about in the 1978 Hit Parader?

Not sure - I just found the covers online and thought they looked cool, especially since they covered 70's heavy metal

Oh, cool, thanks. I might try and find a copy of that just to check it out.

ultmetal wrote:

Oh, cool, thanks. I might try and find a copy of that just to check it out.

Scan and post it if you do!

Will do.

Heavy Metal is indeed now an aged descriptor. It referred to something that was (well, HEAVY). But now the "Metal" tag refers to things not in relation to the mainstream
(but not necessarily 'heavy')

I think the more 'educated' try to label the artists in the genre they most fit. I think these descriptors are relative, more than absolute.
Heavy, Folk, Pagan, Speed, Power, Thrash, Death, Doom, Funeral, Black, Viking, Progressive, True, Classic, Neo-classical, Brutal, Stoner, Gothic, Glam, Gore, Old School, NWOBHM, etc


I hate that add on music you buy that says FOR FANS OF : SLAYER, CANNIBAL CORPSE, WHITECHAPEL, PANTERA, SYSTEM OF A DOWN, AND HATEBREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

(Granted that was an exaggeration, usually these adds come nothing close to matching the music they are slapped on. Which leads me to believe that the people who are in fact 'fans' are either extremely musically diverse or have no real preference and just enjoy breakdowns and cookie monsters)

If I had to be employed by the industry I would be anal-retentive about the accuracy of the genres I associate that music with.

(e.g. someone picks up a KREATOR cd, they will see "FOR FANS OF: ONSLAUGHT, SODOM, DESTRUCTION, AND DARK ANGEL")

Just went through and re-read most of this thread.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

Heavy metal started on February 13, 1970 with the release of Black Sabbath

And the term was coined by someone other than the band....to this day, Ozzy considers Black Sabbath "rock and roll" or "hard rock" (I've heard him say both)...I've also heard him say "I don't even know what Heavy Metal is..."

Point being: things evolve. Period. Aerosmith, Blue Oyster Cult, Ted Nugent, Van Halen...ALL got categorized as Heavy Metal by the same people who categorized Black Sabbath as Heavy Metal...the fans and the press. Only after decades of evolution and genre-splintering did people begin to get more specific and separatist and argue over what is and is not "Metal".

Fact STILL remains that, whether anyone here agrees or not, Heavy Metal in 1977 in America was made up of many bands that, by today's standards and guidelines, would be categorized as Hard Rock or Rock. In 1977, there was no Thrash Metal or Metalcore or Death Metal or Speed Metal or Prog Metal...there was Heavy Metal...KISS and Sabbath and Zep and Aerosmith and Queen and Motorhead. There is no way to redefine or change it.

It's like The Eagles being called Rock...by today's standards much of their music would be labeled Country or Americana...doesn't mean they are not a Rock band.

You can't relabel the past, especially historically documented past, by modern standards...things are what they are.

Best post of the entire debate!

ultmetal wrote:

Just went through and re-read most of this thread.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

Heavy metal started on February 13, 1970 with the release of Black Sabbath

And the term was coined by someone other than the band....to this day, Ozzy considers Black Sabbath "rock and roll" or "hard rock" (I've heard him say both)...I've also heard him say "I don't even know what Heavy Metal is..."

Point being: things evolve. Period. Aerosmith, Blue Oyster Cult, Ted Nugent, Van Halen...ALL got categorized as Heavy Metal by the same people who categorized Black Sabbath as Heavy Metal...the fans and the press. Only after decades of evolution and genre-splintering did people begin to get more specific and separatist and argue over what is and is not "Metal".

Fact STILL remains that, whether anyone here agrees or not, Heavy Metal in 1977 in America was made up of many bands that, by today's standards and guidelines, would be categorized as Hard Rock or Rock. In 1977, there was no Thrash Metal or Metalcore or Death Metal or Speed Metal or Prog Metal...there was Heavy Metal...KISS and Sabbath and Zep and Aerosmith and Queen and Motorhead. There is no way to redefine or change it.

It's like The Eagles being called Rock...by today's standards much of their music would be labeled Country or Americana...doesn't mean they are not a Rock band.

You can't relabel the past, especially historically documented past, by modern standards...things are what they are.

Best post of the entire debate!

I concur....tried to elaborate on same ponits but I am only a drummer

I actually read through this whole thing...

I have the perfect analogy.

I'm a teenager in 1984 watching horror movies such as Friday The 13th, Friday The 13th Part 2, Friday The 13th, Friday The 13th Part IV, Halloween, Halloween II, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Prom Night, Terror Train, The Fog, etc... In my infinite wisdom, I believe that the formula for any true horror movie is that the following three must exist. 1. There must be a protagonist 2. There must be an antagonist 3. Most importantly, there must be ghoulish scenes throughout.

One night a discussion breaks out, and I hear my father state how they don't make horror movies like they used to. I come to find out that my father is a huge fan of Alfred Hitchcock. As we're perusing the video store, my father grabs the movie Psycho. I certainly have heard of the movie, but it wasn't anything that I seriously considered watching. As I read the back of the box for the plot, I come across some valuable information. It states that John Carpenter and Tobe Hooper were heavenly influenced by Hitchcock. I'm suddenly pumped up, because any true card carrying horror fan appreciates the work of both the aforementioned.

We get home and start to watch. I periodically look over at my father, as if to say, "When is this going to get going?" After what seems like an eternity the Janet Leigh character is finally killed. I decide that the scene is somewhat gripping. The rest of the movie prods along, but it never really wets my appetite regarding expectations. In my conclusion I understand that it was the earliest of incarnations regarding horror movies as we know them, but I'm glad that I live in an era where the markings of a successful horror movie are predicated on something totally different.

Do, I really need to state where my feelings lye regarding this matter? Times change, genres expand and grow, but its roots are oh so familiar...

bumpedy bump bump

Are you sure you realllly wanna re-open this can-o-worms, Ult?

Fat Freddy wrote:

Are you sure you realllly wanna re-open this can-o-worms, Ult?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh-oh, somebody struck a "D" chord with Ult again!

Joe wrote:

Uh-oh, somebody struck a "D" chord with Ult again!

Or Key of G, as in many of the 70's METAL band Aerosmith's songs

At the risk of starting this Chinese fire drill up all over again...

I dusted off my CD of Aerosmith's GET YOUR WINGS today for the first time in awhile (the 1993 remaster) and was glancing thru the booklet, which is a collage of vintage Aerosmith photos/memorabilia. One piece that struck me particularly funny was what appears to be the cover of a single, with the band's pic & logo and the word "NEW YORK'S HEAVY METAL SOUND" across the front in huge letters... made me laugh not only cuz we seem to argue regularly around here whether or not Aerosmith were ever "metal," but also because Aerosmith hails from Massachusetts, not New York.

Maybe critics thought they were a New York band, because they along with New York Dolls used to be the house bands at Max's Kansas City.

Fat Freddy wrote:

At the risk of starting this Chinese fire drill up all over again...

I dusted off my CD of Aerosmith's GET YOUR WINGS today for the first time in awhile (the 1993 remaster) and was glancing thru the booklet, which is a collage of vintage Aerosmith photos/memorabilia. One piece that struck me particularly funny was what appears to be the cover of a single, with the band's pic & logo and the word "NEW YORK'S HEAVY METAL SOUND" across the front in huge letters... made me laugh not only cuz we seem to argue regularly around here whether or not Aerosmith were ever "metal," but also because Aerosmith hails from Massachusetts, not New York.

Yes, they were born in Boston, but they were regulars in the NY scene, more-so than Boston. Boston wasn't really known for it's music scene at the time, and NY was, and thus the tag.

I've read through this whole thread more than one time. I find it quite enjoyable and entertaining to read.

While I don't mind people labeled bands hard rock, rather than heavy metal. I find it so bizarre that many younger metal fans just refuse to believe that heavy metal existed before 1980 outside of Judas Priest and Black Sabbath.

Frankly, I love this debate and never mind it coming up again. It's a little like those who grew up during certain wars and lived through them. They were there, they know what was what and they don't care what those who would re-write history have to say.

Preach un brutha ULT, we were there!!!!!!!!