The Doors

rattpoison wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

No offense RP but I think you enjoy the "retro" sound a lot more than others and therefore fail to recognize when something sounds "dated".

When I hear The Doors, I instantly peg them for the late 60s/early 70s based on the lyrics and instrumentation alone.

I think the Doors are one of the few bands from that period along with a handful of their contemporaries Love, 13th Floor Elevators, Velvet Underground etc. that actually transcend the late 60's and don't sound dated or 'retro'.

They are as fresh and unique now as they were 40 years ago.

And I still dislike them as much as I did when they were popular and you weren't even alive. Eh...it's all opinions.

Again, I believe there is a difference here you are missing, it's not that thay are just popular, it's that they HAVE transended time, much of their music sounds as fresh today as it did back then, not so of The Guess Who!

Take Black Sabbath for instance, I think anyone here could tell the music they made in the 70's sounds like it was from the 70's, yet much of it sounds as fresh today as it did then. How many bands today are still rehasing riffs Tony came up with?!

candlemass wrote:

Again, I believe there is a difference here you are missing, it's not that thay are just popular, it's that they HAVE transended time, much of their music sounds as fresh today as it did back then, not so of The Guess Who!

Take Black Sabbath for instance, I think anyone here could tell the music they made in the 70's sounds like it was from the 70's, yet much of it sounds as fresh today as it did then. How many bands today are still rehasing riffs Tony came up with?!

Yeah good point, the thing is you can date any band really from The Stooges to Joy Division to their respective era's......but these bands transcend these periods and the music that came from them.

Like i said before these bands like the Doors, Sabbath, Stooges, Joy Division etc sound as fresh today as anything coming out now. It's their uniqueness and enduring appeal and influence that keeps this going.

That's a rare and special thing.

tohostudios wrote:

manny wrote:

I think some of the Doors music can't help to sound like a by product of its time, for example " Hello I Love You" but to my ears it does not sound dated at all. I also think it helps the Doors sound like no other band than and now.

Very unique band, you have a flamingo guitartist, a jazz drummer, classical trained organist, led by an American poet.

To my ears, that is precisely what makes them sound like a 70s band. No commercially viable band today would try to meld those unique elements.

Look at Diablo Swing Orchestra. You can't find more diverse musical elements mixed in a band's music. And where has that gotten them? CDBaby.

I agree with you no band who wants to have a career past the cut out bins now a days would not attempt that combo, I think the Doors ( my favorite band) was a combination of being at the right place at the right time, the four right men in that band and great songwriting/musicianship.
I also think that reason their music keeps getting picked up by generation after generation, because it is honest and organic.

manny wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

manny wrote:

I think some of the Doors music can't help to sound like a by product of its time, for example " Hello I Love You" but to my ears it does not sound dated at all. I also think it helps the Doors sound like no other band than and now.

Very unique band, you have a flamingo guitartist, a jazz drummer, classical trained organist, led by an American poet.

To my ears, that is precisely what makes them sound like a 70s band. No commercially viable band today would try to meld those unique elements.

Look at Diablo Swing Orchestra. You can't find more diverse musical elements mixed in a band's music. And where has that gotten them? CDBaby.

I agree with you no band who wants to have a career past the cut out bins now a days would attempt that combo, I think the Doors ( my favorite band) was a combination of being at the right place at the right time, the four right men in that band and great songwriting/musicianship.
I also think that reason their music keeps getting picked up by generation after generation, because it is honest and organic.

There's also the personal taste element.

While I like some Doors songs, overall, they sound like typical hippie, drug-inspired crap to me.

I have a Best Of and that's all I need. I don't deny the talent of the band but the overall music just bores me.

That's just my honest opinion and doesn't mean I have any beef with people who love this band. It's just different strokes...

Understood, but if you do get a chance toho check it out the album " LA Woman" where the Doors perform and write their own version of the blues. It may have been a long time since you have heard this and you may enjoy it ( than again you may not). It is amazing that Jim Morrison who only lived to be 27 would be create a lifetime of music in four short years.

manny wrote:

Understood, but if you do get a chance toho check it out the album " LA Woman" where the Doors perform and write their own version of the blues. It may have been a long time since you have heard this and you may enjoy it ( than again you may not). It is amazing that Jim Morrison who only lived to be 27 would be create a lifetime of music in four short years.

Since I generally dislike blues music, this collection probably wouldn't change my opinion of the band.

I will acknowledge though that the influence Jim Morrison had on rock in general given his short life is truly amazing.

tohostudios wrote:

While I like some Doors songs, overall, they sound like typical hippie, drug-inspired crap to me.

Like Sabbath, Zeppelin, Floyd?

Actully, for some time The Doors were eschewed by record companies and clubs because they didn't sound like much of the hippie music of their time. The lyrics were dark and scary, the music was loud and angry.........the music was new, black polished chrome!

Tony Iommi once said that Sabbath was the first band to write about the dark side of life, rubbish! The Doors were writting and performing material about that subject matter several years before Tony severed his finger tips!

tohostudios wrote:

While I like some Doors songs, overall, they sound like typical hippie, drug-inspired crap to me.

I always saw the Doors as more the antithesis to that whole hippie, peace, love etc thing going on at the time. Darker and more apocalyptic like city mates Love. Amoral music that was far removed from the social and political songs of their contemporaries of that time (Another case in them not being dated).

Everything about them was so against the grain of the 60's and cliched visions of it. They were the best 'American Punk' band of the 60's.

I have agree they were not into the love, peace, make love not war, certainly alot of contempories thought they had a darker vision of life, you will find no hippie idealogy in 'The End", 'The Soft Parade" " When the Music is Over" and other classics.

But as Toho stated this not for everyone and certainly not his cup of tea.

manny wrote:

I have agree they were not into the love, peace, make love not war, certainly alot of contempories thought they had a darker vision of life, you will find no hippie idealogy in 'The End", 'The Soft Parade" " When the Music is Over" and other classics.

But as Toho stated this not for everyone and certainly not his cup of tea.

Yeah that's fine that Toho dislike's them but i still have issue over them being called dated.

To me dated music is music that's very of it's time, partakes in popular fashion's, trends and ideologies of the time and is out of context in the present.

The Doors were none of that, against everything that the late 60's were. Sticking out like the proverbial sore thumb. The Doors music is dateless.

I'm not really that much of a fan of that era, other than The Doors. I also find it interesting that many oldie stations that play music of the 60's will play very little of The Doors, too heavy and too dark for them, save for a few tunes like Touch Me.

rattpoison wrote:

manny wrote:

I have agree they were not into the love, peace, make love not war, certainly alot of contempories thought they had a darker vision of life, you will find no hippie idealogy in 'The End", 'The Soft Parade" " When the Music is Over" and other classics.

But as Toho stated this not for everyone and certainly not his cup of tea.

Yeah that's fine that Toho dislike's them but i still have issue over them being called dated.

To me dated music is music that's very of it's time, partakes in popular fashion's, trends and ideologies of the time and is out of context in the present.

The Doors were none of that, against everything that the late 60's were. Sticking out like the proverbial sore thumb. The Doors music is dateless.

I agree with you RP, in regards to the Doors being timeless and to my ears they donot sound dated, but if that is the toho hears it, who am I to say he is wrong? We all process and hear music differently. The Doors to me are timeless and other than Jimi Hendrix they are one few bands that are played on various radio formats not just strictly classic rock.

rattpoison wrote:

I always saw the Doors as more the antithesis to that whole hippie, peace, love etc thing going on at the time. Darker and more apocalyptic like city mates Love.

During their tenure at "The London Fog", John used to go to "The Whiskey" to check out Love. He lamented that he was in "The Demon Doors" and wished he was in Love, in a manner of speaking. The Doors were going nowhere at the time, playing to sparse crowds and making no money, Love was happening at the Whiskey. Things seem to have worked out for John, though he still complains!

candlemass wrote:

rattpoison wrote:

I always saw the Doors as more the antithesis to that whole hippie, peace, love etc thing going on at the time. Darker and more apocalyptic like city mates Love.

During their tenure at "The London Fog", John used to go to "The Whiskey" to check out Love. He lamented that he was in "The Demon Doors" and wished he was in Love, in a manner of speaking. The Doors were going nowhere at the time, playing to sparse crowds and making no money, Love was happening at the Whiskey. Things seem to have worked out for John, though he still complains!

I can see why he still complains! With Morrison's behaviour and Love being in my opinion infiitely greater than any other band to come out of the 60's including the Doors. Although they are an obsession of mine.

Love singer/main protaganist the late great Arthur Lee was the one who suggested Elektra records president Jac Holzman check out the Doors and the rest they say is history.

Love is a great band and " Forever Changes" is a classic,but Arthur Lee was just as troubled as Jim Morrison. The fact that Arthur Lee managed to survive the 60's was a miracle right up there with the parting of the red sea.

manny wrote:

....The fact that Arthur Lee managed to survive the 60's was a miracle right up there with the parting of the red sea.

It seems like it.....throw in Syd Barrett, Roky Erickson and Sky Saxon into the "How did they survive the 60's and beyond" group.

Two points I gotta make here:
1. Seminal bands like the Doors sometimes can be taken as a stereotype because they did much to create that stereotype. In other words I think it's not so much that the Doors sound like a late 60's band as much as that many late 60's bands sound like (sanitized) Doors. The Doors aren't a stereotype in my opinion, but an archetype.
2. Morrison's lyrics were sometimes explicitly cynical about "Flower Power", peace and love, and all that. The other members brought some of that into the band, but I doubt Morrison took it very seriously.

I think archetypical bands inspire stronger feelings (positive and Negative) than most bands do. I guess the Velvet Underground were another archetype, and I didn't like them at all. I recognize that in a different context I've learned to like bands that were influenced by the Velvets perhaps; but I don't think I'll ever be able to take the Velvets out of that original context so I'll probably never learn to enjoy them. It's all so subjective.

I own all the studio releases. They are always interesting to listen to.

i am listening DOORS thsi week permanently over and over again.
an it's so good music ... not enough of DOORS
never been so deep into DOORS as i am now ... dunno what happen.
i want DVDs but can't find any.

iamrockerfun wrote:

i want DVDs but can't find any.

Until you do, you can watch these concerts for free.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8201022730666330949&ei=nBGHSbaXM5KwqwLskfz8Cg&q=the+doors&emb=1&dur=3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6492867866699204852&ei=nBGHSbaXM5KwqwLskfz8Cg&q=the+doors&emb=1&dur=3

iamrockerfun wrote:

i am listening DOORS thsi week permanently over and over again.
an it's so good music ... not enough of DOORS
never been so deep into DOORS as i am now ... dunno what happen.
i want DVDs but can't find any.

If you do a find The Doors DVD's I would suggest you start with this one:




It has the promos and television appearances, and live cuts, most interesting live cuts are The Soft Parade from a PBS television broadcast from 1969, it is about three hours long. It is the complete VHS versions of 'Dance on Fire' "Live at the Hollywood Bowl' and 'The Soft Parade' all in one disc.

manny, I have that Doors DVD coming to me from Netflix. Looking forward to seeing it on your recommendation.

About The Doors "sound", one thing to note is that there's a great deal of jazz influence in their music (Riders On The Storm for example)...particularly the "soul jazz" records of the mid-late 60's, primarily released by Blue Note and Prestige record labels. You can also hear some of the modal/avant-garde thing that people like Miles Davis and Pharoah Sanders were doing.

Most of these groups were built around the Hammond organ and didn't have bass players. Typical instrumentation was Tenor Sax, Hammond, Guitar, Drums. Substitute Jim Morrison for the sax player and it's the exact same format.

That style of jazz was very popular with the West Coast "art scene" in the 60's and also influenced bands like The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Buffalo Springfield, etc.

all right, gonna check them all ... as your recommend.
i find Soundstage Performances DVD and it's very good rated dvd.