Bret Michaels owning Joe Elliott..

7thSecond wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Joe Elliot is an egotistical twat...but he was never Metal.

Well, you got it half right.

Shawn and I have gone round and round about this for what, 8 years now.

Well at least you've been right for 8 years now Scott. Not sure how
Shawn can really listen to a large part of their discography and really
disagree with you???

Shawn's a lead singer. They don't really listen to the music anyways....






NO!! It was a joke, Shawn, I swear!

And what do you call Scott?

emptytomb1 wrote:

And what do you call Scott?

Hmmm... he kinda got ya there Tyrion didn't he. Haha.

Joe got owned.

I hereby request the forum fashion police to post pictures of themselves from the 80s. One of you turds had a frickin' mullet! Don't lie.

metalinmyveins wrote:

I believe Joe to be one of those fly by the seat of his pants type of guy. Whatever the next best thing is, that's what Def Leppard is/ or will try to be, and when that scene is dead and gone, or simply in remission, he and Def Leppard will abandon it like a sinking ship. Joe will someday try and convince their small group of fans that the band's true passion was rap music, and that if you really pay attention to what they've written in the past, you might just be able to hear it.

I think you're a bit looney to even suggest this. Joe Elliot has never said Def Leppard was a metal band. Maybe at one point it was better for the band to keep their mouth shut, but he still never said "We're a metal band." You might think it's a bit disingenuous to be tight-lipped about certain things in the music business, but just take a look at this thread for the reason why musicians are this way.

Fans just take things way too far. Def Leppard have always been a rock band. They might have had some heavier, more metal tendencies early on, but they were still a rock band. If you call them metal, and the band doesn't disagree, you're still wrong.

Quote :

Joe simply is a snake charmer w/out the snake. Notice how he got a few chuckles when talking about his fetish for the likes of Michael Monroe, yet when Brett Michaels slammed Joe, Brett got a much bigger applause. Pretty sad when you think about it, because who's ever taken Brett Michaels or Poison seriously?

Brett got a bigger applause because people eat up negativity. Joe said Poison were fake, which is essentially true, but it was still simply an opinion. Brett took it to the preferred journalistic level of negativity.

In the end, Poison were posers, and Joe Elliot was right about that, at least.

Eyesore wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

I believe Joe to be one of those fly by the seat of his pants type of guy. Whatever the next best thing is, that's what Def Leppard is/ or will try to be, and when that scene is dead and gone, or simply in remission, he and Def Leppard will abandon it like a sinking ship. Joe will someday try and convince their small group of fans that the band's true passion was rap music, and that if you really pay attention to what they've written in the past, you might just be able to hear it.

I think you're a bit looney to even suggest this. Joe Elliot has never said Def Leppard was a metal band. Maybe at one point it was better for the band to keep their mouth shut, but he still never said "We're a metal band." You might think it's a bit disingenuous to be tight-lipped about certain things in the music business, but just take a look at this thread for the reason why musicians are this way.

Fans just take things way too far. Def Leppard have always been a rock band. They might have had some heavier, more metal tendencies early on, but they were still a rock band. If you call them metal, and the band doesn't disagree, you're still wrong.

Quote :

Joe simply is a snake charmer w/out the snake. Notice how he got a few chuckles when talking about his fetish for the likes of Michael Monroe, yet when Brett Michaels slammed Joe, Brett got a much bigger applause. Pretty sad when you think about it, because who's ever taken Brett Michaels or Poison seriously?

Brett got a bigger applause because people eat up negativity. Joe said Poison were fake, which is essentially true, but it was still simply an opinion. Brett took it to the preferred journalistic level of negativity.

In the end, Poison were posers, and Joe Elliot was right about that, at least.

Joe says what ever Joe thinks is right at the time. If he were a politician, he would unequivocally be considered a flip flopper. Joe didn't have to say anything during the early 80's, the metal did the talking, I mean the rock did the talking. It wasn't until the 90's when Joe denounced metal music, and it wasn't cool to be a metal head anymore that he took that stance.

So, if Def Leppard states that they weren't a metal band, then that is the case? So, when Mick Mars states that "Theater of Pain" wasn't a good album, and it had the potential to be so much more, then everyone should just fall in line and agree? I happen to believe him on that one, but should everyone? I know that O.J says he didn't kill his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, so we are immediately inclined to denounce all the evidence that shows otherwise, and accept what was a piss poor decision on the jury's part? If we are to accept everything that is handed to us, then as a human race we are in big trouble. So, if my Federal Government says it so, oh well, fall in line...

I don't think much regarding Poison either, but that's totally not the point. Why is Joe so bent as he begins to enter his years as a senior citizen? I would've expected this during the 80's with all the rivalries between bands, when metal was in its hey day, but why now? Maybe Joe's trying to reinvent Def Leppard again, so it's all a ploy??? Maybe he figures the best way to enter the limelight again is by having a big feud with Brett Michaels/Poison?

Eyesore wrote:

I hereby request the forum fashion police to post pictures of themselves from the 80s. One of you turds had a frickin' mullet! Don't lie.

Around 1984-85...

metalinmyveins wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

I believe Joe to be one of those fly by the seat of his pants type of guy. Whatever the next best thing is, that's what Def Leppard is/ or will try to be, and when that scene is dead and gone, or simply in remission, he and Def Leppard will abandon it like a sinking ship. Joe will someday try and convince their small group of fans that the band's true passion was rap music, and that if you really pay attention to what they've written in the past, you might just be able to hear it.

I think you're a bit looney to even suggest this. Joe Elliot has never said Def Leppard was a metal band. Maybe at one point it was better for the band to keep their mouth shut, but he still never said "We're a metal band." You might think it's a bit disingenuous to be tight-lipped about certain things in the music business, but just take a look at this thread for the reason why musicians are this way.

Fans just take things way too far. Def Leppard have always been a rock band. They might have had some heavier, more metal tendencies early on, but they were still a rock band. If you call them metal, and the band doesn't disagree, you're still wrong.

Quote :

Joe simply is a snake charmer w/out the snake. Notice how he got a few chuckles when talking about his fetish for the likes of Michael Monroe, yet when Brett Michaels slammed Joe, Brett got a much bigger applause. Pretty sad when you think about it, because who's ever taken Brett Michaels or Poison seriously?

Brett got a bigger applause because people eat up negativity. Joe said Poison were fake, which is essentially true, but it was still simply an opinion. Brett took it to the preferred journalistic level of negativity.

In the end, Poison were posers, and Joe Elliot was right about that, at least.

Joe says what ever Joe thinks is right at the time. If he were a politician, he would unequivocally be considered a flip flopper. Joe didn't have to say anything during the early 80's, the metal did the talking, I mean the rock did the talking. It wasn't until the 90's when Joe denounced metal music, and it wasn't cool to be a metal head anymore that he took that stance.

So, if Def Leppard states that they weren't a metal band, then that is the case? So, when Mick Mars states that "Theater of Pain" wasn't a good album, and it had the potential to be so much more, then everyone should just fall in line and agree? I happen to believe him on that one, but should everyone? I know that O.J says he didn't kill his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, so we are immediately inclined to denounce all the evidence that shows otherwise, and accept what was a piss poor decision on the jury's part? If we are to accept everything that is handed to us, then as a human race we are in big trouble. So, if my Federal Government says it so, oh well, fall in line...

I don't think much regarding Poison either, but that's totally not the point. Why is Joe so bent as he begins to enter his years as a senior citizen? I would've expected this during the 80's with all the rivalries between bands, when metal was in its hey day, but why now? Maybe Joe's trying to reinvent Def Leppard again, so it's all a ploy??? Maybe he figures the best way to enter the limelight again is by having a big feud with Brett Michaels/Poison?

It's not even worth discussing this with you if you're going to continue bringing things up that make no sense.

ultmetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

I hereby request the forum fashion police to post pictures of themselves from the 80s. One of you turds had a frickin' mullet! Don't lie.

Around 1984-85...

Feathered wolf hair. Awesome!

Heres how I looked in the mid 80s

ultmetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

I hereby request the forum fashion police to post pictures of themselves from the 80s. One of you turds had a frickin' mullet! Don't lie.

Around 1984-85...

Ahh, the Corey Feldman pic. Cool!

SoldierUnderCommand wrote:

rattpoison's opinion on how bands look, obviously has a lot to do with if he likes their music or not.

I'm not a Poison or Def fan, but that picture is just as merry as Poison's 80s look. At least Posion didn't have matching outfits.

I have no issue with Poison's actual glam image but more the way them and alot of bands went about using that image, i was saying that alot of these bands used that image because it was popular....it's like they all saw the sucess of Motley Crue and said right were going to look like that and have a singer with bleached blonde hair and so forth. It was really formulaic and lacked creativity.

I think Slash said it best about these bands when he said they were the type of guys who would buy the clothes, make up, hairspray before making/playing music. The music seemed to come last with alot of these bands and that image was used to shield these musical short comings. And in the visual age of music in the 80's this worked to wild success.

I like alot of bands that have a glam image but don't fall into the 80's metal category. Look at two of my favourite bands Hanoi Rocks and Adam And The Ants who had outrageous flamboyant glam images. You may think their image is very merry which is an opinion but these bands had a different individual style that owed to no bandwagon trend unlike alot of LA Metal.

....I still think that image of Def Leppard is cool....reminded me of the Who draped in the Union Jack and it obviously was a promo shot set up....but alot of bands had matching outfits, you could say the image of alot of the thrash bands in their matching hi-top sneakers, skin-tight jeans, bullet belts etc. is pretty silly looking back at it.

Eyesore wrote:

SoldierUnderCommand wrote:

rattpoison's opinion on how bands look, obviously has a lot to do with if he likes their music or not.

He's admitted this. I called him crazy. Haha.

No you didn't get me in the JetBoy thread. Image does not affect whether i listen to a band's music or not. But if a band has a great image then i might like them more for it as might other things like myth, stories and personalites about or in the band might make me like them more. But i never say "Well the music's good but i don't like the image....so i don't like them and won't listen to their music". Never would i do that.

Image in the music i like varies. I like music from Prince to Trouble...Adam And The Ants to Warrior Soul....King's X to the Faces...Duran Duran to Vain etc.

Alot are polar opposites in image, and some may deem their image silly, stupid or merry but i don't care i like their music.

Well, ratty, I like you no matter what.

Even if you do talk a bit funny.

That's fine.....just didn't want you getting the wrong idea that something as superficial as image would decide what music i like and dislike.

I mean i like My Chemical Romance for god's sake. (Prepare for the stones)

Joe opened his big mouth and Michaels put his foot down it.

Quote :

I have no issue with Poison's actual glam image but more the way them and alot of bands went about using that image, i was saying that alot of these bands used that image because it was popular....it's like they all saw the sucess of Motley Crue and said right were going to look like that and have a singer with bleached blonde hair and so forth. It was really formulaic and lacked creativity.

And Joe Elliott didn't have a mullet or 3 belts on in the early 89s either.

SoldierUnderCommand wrote:

Quote :

I have no issue with Poison's actual glam image but more the way them and alot of bands went about using that image, i was saying that alot of these bands used that image because it was popular....it's like they all saw the sucess of Motley Crue and said right were going to look like that and have a singer with bleached blonde hair and so forth. It was really formulaic and lacked creativity.

And Joe Elliott didn't have a mullet or 3 belts on in the early 89s either.

It doesn't really matter, Def Leppard didn't try and sell their music through image.........they just sold it through crappy plastic over produced rubbish in the late 80's.

Joe, whiny twit that he is, needs to take a "let it be" approach...it is what it is, whether its what he wanted or not...just be glad anyone is still listening and still coming to your shows. Keep making new music that you like (Joe) and let the few who still appreciate it be enough...you'll never have another Hysteria...leave other bands alone.

That said, I still maintain that DL were never a "true" Metal band. Also, if you wanna talk history & track record, only 2 of the band's 10 commercial releases (not counting the covers album, but counting Retro-Active) are in contention here. From Pyromania forward, most die-hards would even concede that DL was not a Metal band. The first 2 albums had some Metal leaning songs, but were much more in the Rock N Roll/Hard Rock vein, IMO. They were included in the NWOBHM by default.

Also, I think Joe's contention with being lumped in with Warrant, Winger, Poison, etc is something like "we were here first"...DL predated Poison (official releases) by more than 6 years, Winger by 8 years and Warrant by 8 years...they never got into the make-up/flash as heavily as Poison and were arguably better musicians with a wider array of musicality, they never did the synchronized stage moves like Warrant and were better musicians than them too...Winger is just as good as DL ever was, IMO, but that doesn't matter.

I think Joe is bitter for a few reasons:

- He never wanted to be "Metal", but was put there anyway by fans & press, and gets irritated when he's asked why he turned his back on "Metal"

- He never was able to do what Bowie (one of his hero's) has done, which is maintain critical cred for pretty much his whole career

- He'll never come out from under the shadow of Hysteria, and artistically speaking that bums him out

- He can't release any new music without fans of the first 4 albums crying and carrying on about how it's not "Metal" or "it's not as good as..." and he's pretty much not allowed by fans to "branch out" musically...

- His band has become something he did not want it to be, a nostalgia act.

- Even if the band released High N Dry 2 or Hysteria 2 tomorrow, we're still talking finite record sales...only a few less complainers. People in general do not want new music from old bands...they want the hits.

7thSecond wrote:

emptytomb1 wrote:

And what do you call Scott?

Hmmm... he kinda got ya there Tyrion didn't he. Haha.

Oh I realized that. I took the chance anyways, but you guys are too sharp to let it pass.

Here's what I think...

Joe Elliot is a pompous ass that thinks he is better than he actually is. I personally think DL has been pretty pointless since Adrenalize. Poison has been pointless since 1988. But that's just my viewpoint.

I agree with Shawn when he says that he thinks Joe is upset because his band will never top "Hysteria" sales wise and that is the caliber of stuff casual fans have been wanting for years. I have no idea how Poison are still an entity that draws a crowd, honestly.

But really, this "arguement" is like Jefferson Starship and Styx bickering amongst themselves about who was a better band in the mid-80's. A couple of bands way past their prime just barely getting by. Shut up, Eyesore.

Wow, this thread has been quite a read.

In my book:

Bret Michaels > Joe Elliott

But just barely, because both of them have been completely irrelevant to me for well over twenty years now.

My contention has been this from the get go. I could care less what Joe Elliott is saying regarding whether Def Leppard were once a metal band or not. He could state they weren't until he's blue in the face, and that it was never Def Leppard's intention to be lumped in as a metal band (ealry on), and that they were simply a rock 'n roll band all along.

Case in point, it was stated that Ozzy always saw Black Sabbath as a Rock 'N' Roll band as well, but we no better. I'm shocked that someone hasn't started a thread with a poll question regarding whether Def Leppard should be considered a Heavy Metal band or a Rock 'N' Roll band through at least their first two records.

In finishing, I truly believe that Joe Elliott is a very self serving & pretentious individual. Sadly, I think he gets off these days on discrediting the metal industry as a whole, one that he & Def Leppard were a part of (and successfully might I note) whether they liked it or not.

Now let's talk about some metal.

[/endthread]

I love when the fans know better than the bands.