Most ridiculous Into the Pit review EVER!

It's in the dictionary that way. Both are accepted spellings.

You and the reviewer are wrong.

Temple of Blood wrote:

It's in the dictionary that way. Both are accepted spellings.

You and the reviewer are wrong.

All I know is Microsoft spell check asks me "did you mean Judgment?" any time I type that Jag Panzer title

That Ultimatum review is pretty weird. That guy definately has it out for christians and religion. A good review should not be biased as much as the way he critiqued Ultimatum(if you want to call it critiqueing, I'd say random long-windedness), I do sort of agree that Ultimatum material is SORT OF unoriginal, I've heard influences from bands like UDO, Seventh angel, Vengeance Rising, etc in Ultimatum's music but why should that be a bad thing?? Its like taking a bunch of bands that you like and making a super band. In my opinion, who even has the right to say something is unorignal anymore??

How can you write a review of something and not cite any examples to serve as facts to back up your assertions?

the sentinel wrote:

How can you write a review of something and not cite any examples to serve as facts to back up your assertions?

Yeah, that is another thing that is missing from many reviews. Examples that illustrate the points the reviewer is trying to make.

I know this won't bide very well with many people here, but I agree with the review. Generally most of the metal created these days that is in homage to the older 80's metal, does lack originality because its all been done before and for over 25 years. Not saying thats neccessarily a bad thing, because that style of metal kicks ass, but its certainly not fresh sounding. Like he said, the talent is there, just not very much creativity. I find that Ultimatum, from what I have heard, which is not much mind you (myspace), to be pretty generic for that style and generally an uninspiring carbon copy of better bands and leaves me with a feeling of "meh, nothing new or special here". The writer didn't mention any bands by name, which is what many people seem to be criticizing him for, but he referenced their wikipedia site which does name these bands.

The writer does have an obvious dislike of christian metal bands, but I don't really see a problem with that. It's really no different than people who criticize the overtly satanic lyrics (which for the most part were done as a facade) in a lot of extreme styles of metal, only the christian lyrics are serious and actually meant to be taken to heart which is really overwhelming when you don't believe in god and such, like myself. Also, many people, like myself, find it kind of silly to label one's self as christian metal. The notion of limitting one's self lyrically to the writings of one religion gets a little tiresome. I've read the bible several times and there's some great stories in there, but hearing it over and over again by bands that don't really bring anything new to the table musically is boring.

I know this certainly isn't going to be well received here, but I find for the most part Ultimatum are nothing really special. They're extremely talented and tight as hell but they just don't do it for me. I don't buy that so many people around here legitimately find them to be so amazing, and I get the feeling it's due in part to people trying to suck up and do a bit of ass kissing of the site owner here. Just my opinion, I'm sure that it's not shared by many or will be well received, but it's just how I see things. *ducks*

I agree with some of your post Trial.

Just wondering Trial, how long did it take you to read the Bible cover to cover several times?

It took me a year and half to read it once.

I don't think that review was helpful to anyone, or honest, that whole "christian copycat" thing. Would he say the same thing about Wolf or Icarus Witch, they have not done anything "new", is that ok as long as your not a christian?

Quote :

They're extremely talented and tight as hell

"She's really pretty, but I don't think she's the first pretty girl in the world, so I'll remain single".

"He's fast, and strong, but he runs just like Walter Payton. We better draft someone else".

"That kid's a math whiz, but until he finds a new way to do his equations, we'll just keep bleeding money doing it the original way".

Quote :

They're extremely talented and tight as hell

I'd take that!

I'm not exactly sure, but I would say I read it over the span of a month or two. I first read the new testament when I was 13 or 14 because I wanted to know what I was getting into with confirmation, haha. I borrowed a copy of the full bible from my grandmother when I was 16 or 17, and yeah I'd say it took me about two months to get through it.

scottmitchell74 wrote:

Quote :

They're extremely talented and tight as hell

"She's really pretty, but I don't think she's the first pretty girl in the world, so I'll remain single".

"He's fast, and strong, but he runs just like Walter Payton. We better draft someone else".

"That kid's a math whiz, but until he finds a new way to do his equations, we'll just keep bleeding money doing it the original way".

Quote :

They're extremely talented and tight as hell

I'd take that!

Trivium are also talented musicians and play tight, but they don't write creatively and I don't find them interesting. You are splitting hairs with those comments.

When you "don't buy that so many people around here legitimately find them to be so amazing" you'll get reactions like that!

Next thing you'll inform me that I couldn't possibly actually like Deliverance, Bride, Tourniquet, Vengeance Rising, Antestor, Rob Rock etc....because they are derivitive Christian lemmings.

candlemass wrote:

I don't think that review was helpful to anyone, or honest, that whole "christian copycat" thing. Would he say the same thing about Wolf or Icarus Witch, they have not done anything "new", is that ok as long as your not a christian?

Good point.

What is "creative"? Does that mean you have to invent a new riff that no one has ever heard, be the pioneers of a new genre, can't it also be simply writting good lyrics and music..........what's new under the sun?

Reviews are like bungholes, everybody has one and they all stink. But sereiously I try not to read too many reviews because 9 times out of ten they are 180 degrees out of phase with my opinion. This reviewer is ignorant and certainly biased against Christian artists. Origionlality means squat to me (actually some bands with "origionality" suck eggs). I am always a music first guy and lyrics second and I believe most bands are. IMO, even bands who put lyrical content before music want to put out the best music possible (Christian artists moreso becaue they write a lot of music to please God and you don't give God your second best). I personally say about Ultimatum what I mean. I even mention in my amazon review for Into The Pit, that while I think previous albums were good there wasn't anything super spectacular about them until ITP which I seriously rank up with my favs. I know I don't suck up to anyone, my opinion is what it is.

Trial, I don't know you personally and I respect your right to believe or not believe what you want, but if you don't believe in God then reading the Bible is a waste of time. The Bible is just pages with print on them until you except God's existance and receive Christ. I'm not just re-gurgitating (sic) Christian rhetoric at you, before I became a Christian, I read the Bible and it all just seemed to far fetched and fairly boring. I never got anything out of it until I became a Christian (that wouldn't even have happened if I hadn't accepted the existance of God years before), then it fell into place.

Quote :

They're extremely talented and tight as hell but they just don't do it for me. I don't buy that so many people around here legitimately find them to be so amazing, and I get the feeling it's due in part to people trying to suck up and do a bit of ass kissing of the site owner here

I bet most here that like them now like'd them before they ever hit this site. They don't do it for you which is fine. Leave it at that. The rest is crap.

BTW, Scott, since i've been doing this ass kissing you owe me some free merch.

LOL!

Seriously though. I doubt anyone is kissing my butt here. People have been very upfront with me on this forum about what they like and don't like. MC666 told me straight up he wasn't a fan of our past albums, even though he said he likes the new one. Temple of Blood doesn't like any Ultimatum at all. There are people here who like the band, and those who don't. If it's not your thing, that's cool.

We are getting mostly postive reviews on the new CD from all over the globe, so obviously somebody likes the new CD and those people writing the reviews don't know me from Adam. (Who's Adam anyhow?) There are a ton of reviews on iTunes, Amazon, CDBaby, etc. I don't think I know most of those people either.

candlemass wrote:

What is "creative"? Does that mean you have to invent a new riff that no one has ever heard, be the pioneers of a new genre, can't it also be simply writting good lyrics and music..........what's new under the sun?

That was the point I was trying to make exactly. Like I've said a million times over, "Our interests have never been to be the fastest, or the heaviest, or even the most bizarre. We really don’t care to be trendy. Rather we want to write good, heavy, memorable metal songs with lyrics that will challenge the listener."

mc666 wrote:

as far as originality goes, if you play a style of music that others play, of course there will be many similarities. however, there are certain elements individuals bring to their bands that give them their specific sound. he never bothered to listen for them.

I completely agree with this.

I get tired of reading people say one band/musician has cloned another. I hear many differences and think others could notice them as well if they'd pay a little bit of attention. If they are too tin-eared to notice the difference, maybe they have no business writing music reviews in the first place.

Another dumb thing about the original review is how he takes it as a sign of weakness that Ultimatum is listing their influences. It's a reference point!!!!! Secular bands do it all the time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it is just a helpful description to give the audience a general idea of musically where you are coming from.

.... and who says other bands aren't "commercials" for their own views, religious or otherwise? Is Judas Priest a commercial for homosexuality?

Trial by Fire wrote:

and I get the feeling it's due in part to people trying to suck up and do a bit of ass kissing of the site owner here.

There's just this one TIIIIIINNNNNYYYYY problem with your theory there. kmorg is the site owner, and he ain't in Ultimatum.

Other than that, you're entitled to your own opinion. Could care less, really.

That was a worthless review. I don't get the originality angle, maybe if he provided an explaination I wouldn't be so stumped. That was more of a commentary on Christian metal than a review.

thats so stupid as he could say that about every thrash band after metallica for example

At least he liked the artwork! This is the first review that I've seen that has mentioned it.

Trial by Fire wrote:

I know this won't bide very well with many people here, but I agree with the review. Generally most of the metal created these days that is in homage to the older 80's metal, does lack originality because its all been done before and for over 25 years. Not saying thats neccessarily a bad thing, because that style of metal kicks ass, but its certainly not fresh sounding. Like he said, the talent is there, just not very much creativity. I find that Ultimatum, from what I have heard, which is not much mind you (myspace), to be pretty generic for that style and generally an uninspiring carbon copy of better bands and leaves me with a feeling of "meh, nothing new or special here". The writer didn't mention any bands by name, which is what many people seem to be criticizing him for, but he referenced their wikipedia site which does name these bands.

The writer does have an obvious dislike of christian metal bands, but I don't really see a problem with that. It's really no different than people who criticize the overtly satanic lyrics (which for the most part were done as a facade) in a lot of extreme styles of metal, only the christian lyrics are serious and actually meant to be taken to heart which is really overwhelming when you don't believe in god and such, like myself. Also, many people, like myself, find it kind of silly to label one's self as christian metal. The notion of limitting one's self lyrically to the writings of one religion gets a little tiresome. I've read the bible several times and there's some great stories in there, but hearing it over and over again by bands that don't really bring anything new to the table musically is boring.

I know this certainly isn't going to be well received here, but I find for the most part Ultimatum are nothing really special. They're extremely talented and tight as hell but they just don't do it for me. I don't buy that so many people around here legitimately find them to be so amazing, and I get the feeling it's due in part to people trying to suck up and do a bit of ass kissing of the site owner here. Just my opinion, I'm sure that it's not shared by many or will be well received, but it's just how I see things. *ducks*

The outlined part here says the most. You probably heard as much of the music as that reviewer did. So if you really think people base their opinions on a band because they are a part of the same discussion board as some of the bands members, then you are just clueless! I'll give you this though: Where do you think you'll find the most Ultimatum fans? On the bands message board, or on any other random message board?

Trial By Fires cd collection:
Robert Johnson - the Complete Recordings




The only "ORIGINAL" stuff ever recorded. Everything was ripped off from there. Originality in rock died in 1929.