Most ridiculous Into the Pit review EVER!

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Ultimatum - Into the Pit 2007
Rating 1.5/5 stars

A friend kept suggesting this band to me, and even though I typically steer clear of Christian metal (more on why...in a few sentences), I gave this one a chance: one, she normally has a great taste, and two, the album art actually looked decent. Call that superficial, but dammit, before all these fancy websites with samples and such, album art and descriptions were all we had to go on. The musical talent is here, but Ultimatum falls into that same trap that every Christian metal band can't seem to avoid. The music is generic as can be - there is nothing here I haven't heard before across countless metal acts. Sure, there's riffs, solos, hooks, grating vocals, thundering percussion and audible bass, but all that means exactly nothing if there is no creativity. The telltale sign of a band that puts their motivation ahead of musical ability is when the band or fans first need to tell the potential listener what other popular, original bands this band sounds like (I refer you to Ultimatum's Wiki entry for a prime example). Much like organized religion, the only way these bands gain listeners is by taking what other original artists have done much better, and making their version of it.

If purveyors of Christian metal such as Ultimatum truly wish to be taken seriously, they need to scrounge up some creativity and realize that at least some people are on top of the old subliminal technique of altering familiar logos, artwork and music in order to lure in the unsuspecting masses. Meanwhile, a band such as Deathspell Omega is in the midst of creating a spiritually motivated trilogy of albums that are rife with innovation, both lyrically and musically. The difference is that DSO is a band, and Ultimatum is an evangelical commercial.

-Zeroumus
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/ultimatum/into_the_pit/

I don't mind negative reviews, or constructive criticism, but frankly, this review is just stupid. We are a heavy metal band who plays heavy metal. We do not put our message above our music. We are not trying to be the next trend in music. Besides, I find that most people who are looking for "creative metal bands" are just looking for bands that are mixing different styles together.

If we played jazz, would someone say, "why don't you be more creative and play blues-jazz?" It's heavy metal. If you like the style and you like the songs, great. If you don't like the style of metal we play or the songs we write, great! However, to say the songs are not "creative" and that we are striving to sound like other bands is ridiculous IMO!

As I say in our press kit, "Our interests have never been to be the fastest, or the heaviest, or even the most bizarre. We really don’t care to be trendy. Rather we want to write good, heavy, memorable metal songs with lyrics that will challenge the listener."

Thoughts?

Screw this guy.

HORRID, STUPID, DUMB AND REDICULOUS!

- That is not opinion, that is fact right there - This guy is obviously sucked into a world of rap-metal and keyboard-raped Black Metal, since he has the nerve to utter such an in-accurate comment (and that's being nice).

- This guy is just dumb

On the other hand, I need to check out Deathspell Omega. Not familiar with them.

Well, at least one good thing came out of it.

This guy is clueless. "Not creative"?

" That is not opinion, that is fact right there - This guy is obviously sucked into a world of rap-metal and keyboard-raped Black Metal, since he has the nerve to utter such an in-accurate comment (and that's being nice)." Mglaffas81

Actually, mentioning Deathspell Omega couldn't be more opposite of "a world of rap-metal and keyboard-raped Black Metal". Whereas I've not heard Ultimatum (yet), the reviewer's assessment of D.O. leads me to believe that he knows what he's talking about. I PERSONALLY don't see it as a "bad" review, per se, as I can read between the lines; actually, I think the guy is just prejudiced against Christian MeTal bands. Boiling it down, he says that a lot of great elements are there, just not "originality"; many fans of MeTal don't really CARE about originality, as long as the elements they want to hear are in the music.
And so, Mglaffas81, if you REALLY think Deathspell Omega is either rap OR keyboard-raped, think again! By the way, did you know that there is a Polish BM band called Mgla? Pretty good, if nothing "original".......

ghastlylugosi wrote:

Whereas I've not heard Ultimatum (yet),....

www.myspace.com/ultimatummetal

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I PERSONALLY don't see it as a "bad" review, per se, as I can read between the lines; actually, I think the guy is just prejudiced against Christian MeTal bands. Boiling it down, he says that a lot of great elements are there, just not "originality"; many fans of MeTal don't really CARE about originality, as long as the elements they want to hear are in the music.
And so, Mglaffas81, if you REALLY think Deathspell Omega is either rap OR keyboard-raped, think again! By the way, did you know that there is a Polish BM band called Mgla? Pretty good, if nothing "original".......

I think you hit the nail on the head with the BOLDED statement.

A good review gives you an overview of what the music sounds like and perhaps the style of music. It might give opinions on the performance, songs, production, etc. This review gives none of that. He makes it clear from his opening paragraph that he has a problem with a band labeled "Christian metal" and the proceeds to make ridiculous claims of Ultimatum sounding like other bands, which he doesn't even bother to list.

The thing is, our record company nor our distribution outlets are promoting this as a Christian metal album. We are a metal band. Sure, the message is there, but it's not message over music and never has been. Actually, we also deal with political topics, social topics, and even good old metal anthems.

EVERY band is usually compared to someone else. Even the most creative bands are usually said to sound like a mix of this band and that band. Avenger of Blood are often compared to Sodom and Kreator. So what as long as the music is good. A great jazz band plays jazz. They don't have to mix in other influences and style to be a great jazz band. Same thing with metal, thrash or any other style of music. It's just as creative to stay within a specified musical genre and write quality, enjoyable songs.

I think the thing that tweaks me the most is saying we are not a band and nothing more than a billboard advertisement for evangelism, which just isn't the case. Ultimatum are a metal band through and though with a long history.

On the brights side, Germany's biggest metal magazine HEAVY just gave us a KILLER review (11 out of a possible 12 points). I'm anxious to read it.

Actually, one thing I have noticed is that most of the negative reviews have come from people who seem to have a problem with the lyrical approach and tend to judge the CD before they even hear it. Reading some of those reviews, I often wonder if the writer actually gave the CD a listen before they wrote their review.

We post ALL reviews on our website. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. This one made The Ugly section.

http://www.ultimatum.net/pitreviews.htm

Ive been on this earth 40 years and I can probably count on one hand all the bands that in my opinion are truly original. In this day and age, originality is long gone. If I had a band, we would choose a style of music and just try to make the best we could of that style, strive to achieve perfection (which is impossible but that in itself would keep us trying harder and harder each time).
Ultimatum is a band that loves metal, is big fans of metal, and has decided to try to make the best metal they can. And Ultimatum makes killer metal.

This guy obviously doesnt get it.

I'm not familiar with that rateyourmusic.com site. Is it something that anyone can log on and comment or is this jack-ass, er, uh, guy some kind of professional reviewer?

I will agree that he does seem to have an anti-Christian agenda, so any comments that follow seem stupid and juvenile.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I'm not familiar with that rateyourmusic.com site. Is it something that anyone can log on and comment or is this jack-ass, er, uh, guy some kind of professional reviewer?

I will agree that he does seem to have an anti-Christian agenda, so any comments that follow seem stupid and juvenile.

And if he only listens to "original" music, he must not have many CDs in his collection because it's pretty much all been done.

Except for that death/country/industrial/jazz album.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I'm not familiar with that rateyourmusic.com site. Is it something that anyone can log on and comment or is this jack-ass, er, uh, guy some kind of professional reviewer?

I will agree that he does seem to have an anti-Christian agenda, so any comments that follow seem stupid and juvenile.

Seems it's one of those sites anyone can get into and rate and review music.

The CD has a 3.22/5 rating with 7 people voting, including our own MC666 and Spectrefate. Not to bad considering that one 1.5 vote really brought the score down.

Just one person's opinion. To those of you who think this guy is a whacko -- he's not "dumb", he just has an opinion. You can't argue against someone's opinion and say they're wrong for thinking that.

That said, he does come across as carrying a grudge against Christian bands.

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Just one person's opinion. To those of you who think this guy is a whacko -- he's not "dumb", he just has an opinion. You can't argue against someone's opinion and say they're wrong for thinking that.

I'll agure it all I want. You're not the boss of me. The guy is a wacko. That's right, I said it. Thank you and good day, sir.

I've seen much worse reviews. At least it talked about the music some. We had some that compared our first album to Stryper, which I was searching for put can't find the link to post it.

Don't be so quick to discount criticism, a lot of it can be valid and help you improve your craft as you continue to develop as a musician. Are you 100% sure that NOTHING he said was accurate at all? I always try to keep my influences in mind and try to ask myself sincerely if our work is on par with them and keep shooting for that.

I'd be interested in hearing the band he claims are on the other side of the spectrum though I am fairly sure they are just another run-of-the-mill tuneless "extreme metal" band.

Let's face it, most metal reviews are lame anyway. They either rip you apart because of their personal bias or they say "this is the best music ever!!!!!" and offer nothing but a superficial description of what the music is like or any constructive criticism.

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Don't be so quick to discount criticism, a lot of it can be valid and help you improve your craft as you continue to develop as a musician. Are you 100% sure that NOTHING he said was accurate at all? I always try to keep my influences in mind and try to ask myself sincerely if our work is on par with them and keep shooting for that.

Let's face it, I don't think too many of us on this particular forum are gonna base any of our opinions of Ultimatum because of this dude's review. We're just having a good time tearing it apart and over-annilizing every nuance of it.

Temple of Blood wrote:

I've seen much worse reviews. At least it talked about the music some. We had some that compared our first album to Stryper, which I was searching for put can't find the link to post it.

Don't be so quick to discount criticism, a lot of it can be valid and help you improve your craft as you continue to develop as a musician. Are you 100% sure that NOTHING he said was accurate at all? I always try to keep my influences in mind and try to ask myself sincerely if our work is on par with them and keep shooting for that.

I'd be interested in hearing the band he claims are on the other side of the spectrum though I am fairly sure they are just another run-of-the-mill tuneless "extreme metal" band.

Let's face it, most metal reviews are lame anyway. They either rip you apart because of their personal bias or they say "this is the best music ever!!!!!" and offer nothing but a superficial description of what the music is like or any constructive criticism.

Temple of Blood and Stryper. LOL! Yup, that's a lame comparison.

I don't mind negative reviews, as I said above. I HAVE used reviews from past albums and demos to help us improve our sound and such. Constructive criticism about songwriting, production, and even lyrics are cool. Even negative reviews that are opinions are cool.

Shoot, I've remember reading negative reviews of our first CD back in the 90's and thinking, "ok, well, we'll show you with our next release." Those people had valid points about the production and such.

This review didn't deal with the music at all. If someone didn't now who Ultimatum was or had never heard our music, what could they draw from this review about the music? Would they be able to figure out what style of music we play, other than just "metal"? He didn't mention the specific style, attempt to describe the music or even say who it was we supposedly sound like.

This review could actually be re-printed almost word for word about Temple of Blood and no one would be the wiser. If that were the case, what could you take from this review to help you improve? Just curious, because I don't see anything worthwhile here.

Read this review somewhere right after the release, but I`m not sure it was at this site, maybe he posted it somewhere else to.
His whole point seems to be that Ultimatum is a band created by organized religion, that you`re just copying other metal bands, so christians has something with christian lyrics in this music genre.
And this is also where he is soooo wrong, had he bothered to check a little he would see that you guys are pure METAL, not some substitute.
AND, getting 11 out of 12 in HEAVY, Germany is fantastic
Nice to see you get all this attention in Europe, maybe we`ll see you live here someday?

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I'll agure it all I want. You're not the boss of me. The guy is a wacko. That's right, I said it. Thank you and good day, sir.

That review would make me want to check the band out. I'm so used to people saying thrash and death aren't original that it doesn't even phase me. There are maybe 5 original bands a year. And this part" Sure, there's riffs, solos, hooks, grating vocals, thundering percussion and audible bass," would pigue my interest.
This statement: "The telltale sign of a band that puts their motivation ahead of musical ability is when the band or fans first need to tell the potential listener what other popular, original bands this band sounds like," is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard. So every band with a female singer I see described as sounding a lot like Nightwish do this? Every band does this to some degree, dumbass.

read this review long before i actually bought the disc. it didn't stop me from buying it, simply because it's obviously more about your religion than about your music. as far as originality goes, if you play a style of music that others play, of course there will be many similarities. however, there are certain elements individuals bring to their bands that give them their specific sound. he never bothered to listen for them. i wonder if he listened at all?

Deathspell Omega is a satanic black metal band & have absolutely no relevance to the subject at hand.

Here's a review of our first disc that I think is much worse than your review:

http://www.smother.net/reviews/items/unsignedbands/617/Temple_of_Blood-Prepare_For_the_Judgement_of_Mankind.php

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Temple of Blood — Prepare For the Judgement of Mankind No I didn’t misspell the album title. These Christian metalheads are all about throwing an “e” in there. They might look in King Diamond’s general direction but he’d scoff at them and toss them aside. It’s great that Christians want to make metal and all, I mean look at how great Solid State and Tooth and Nail Records are. But when it gets this derivative and horrid, no religion will save you.
- J-Sin

Notice the overall lack of content and the strange reference to Solid State as the example we should be shooting for letting you know that the guy doesn't know what this music is all about. Pretty much implying if you don't make metalcore then you're derivative.

Yup, that review is worthless as well.

I cannot figure out why people would want to review an album if they
are already biased against the style or lyrical content. If you know
you don't like either one, then how could you ever write a fair review,
much less something that is going to give someone looking to possibly
buy an album information they can use.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Here's a review of our first disc that I think is much worse than your review:

http://www.smother.net/reviews/items/unsignedbands/617/Temple_of_Blood-Prepare_For_the_Judgement_of_Mankind.php

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Temple of Blood — Prepare For the Judgement of Mankind No I didn’t misspell the album title. These Christian metalheads are all about throwing an “e” in there. They might look in King Diamond’s general direction but he’d scoff at them and toss them aside. It’s great that Christians want to make metal and all, I mean look at how great Solid State and Tooth and Nail Records are. But when it gets this derivative and horrid, no religion will save you.
- J-Sin

Notice the overall lack of content and the strange reference to Solid State as the example we should be shooting for letting you know that the guy doesn't know what this music is all about. Pretty much implying if you don't make metalcore then you're derivative.

The only part of that review I agree with is that you guys misspelled "Judgment"

Don't feel bad. Jag Panzer did the same thing on THE FOURTH JUDGEMENT (sic) too.