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 Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events

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glassprison
Metal is in my blood
Metal is in my blood
glassprison

Number of posts : 2929
Age : 32

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PostSubject: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 3:52 pm

I'm not starting this thread with any preconceived ideas or judgments in mind. Rather, it is in response to an article from 2019 that has been recirculating on social media:

https://www.monsterchildren.com/metal-has-white-supremacy-problem/?fbclid=IwAR3AB0NOmq1UiFjM8Zir8jJquU2aIyyFNlqA2QQ-fR6b2A92MjziDGTpTJI

It focuses on Phil Anselmo's now notorious Nazi salute at a show in CA in 2016. But it also touches on other bands, some black metal, for instance, before coming to the conclusion that even Slayer leans into this territory at times.

I personally don't follow band members' personal remarks or actions outside of the music that they produce. I usually have little interest in their thoughts political or otherwise. So I have no problem listening to Pantera or other Anselmo projects (although some of them are a real chore to get through--I found out recently when I tried to listen to the full Pantera family tree discography).

The Slayer stuff actually strikes me as a bit more disturbing. It's not in the article, but Jeff Hanneman apparently had his wedding ring modeled on a skull-emblazoned band worn by Reinhard Heydrich, a high ranking Nazi official. I also didn't realize that their fan club, Slaytanic Wehrmacht, was named in reference to the Nazi armed forces.

I'm not sure if any of that should make a difference in how I understand the music they've produced. The songs in the linked opinion piece, like "Angel of Death," can easily be understood from a non-white supremacist position.

Anyway, just curious what your thoughts are about bands that have or may come under scrutiny (warranted or not) in light of the current groundswell.




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Lari
Metal is in my blood
Metal is in my blood
Lari

Number of posts : 4970
Age : 40

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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 4:05 pm

I don't listen to anything praising white supremacy.

Angel of Death is a great song, and I've thought about the lyrics. It's one thing to sing about historical things like war and stuff, but you have to be careful not to glorify disgusting things. I find that Slayer mostly describes the agony and horror and awful fate of the victims of the holocaust. I'm okay with it. Lest we forget, and all. And at least I haven't gotten the impression that any of the members, including Hanneman, were racist. But that's just based on interviews. He could very well have been, I don't know. That would probaly hurt my view of them.

Pantera I never liked anyway, so that's an easy pass for me. NSBM sucks ass and is in the same category as nazi-punk and all that shit. Worst music in the world with the worst message of them all.

Metal to me represents liberal open minded thinking, self-reflection, anger, and about always questioning things. Not oppression. Some may disagree. And obviously, like any music, metal can also be used to spread any message possible. Though I've yet to see nazi boy bands doing dance pop. That stuff is pretty free of nazis.
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Fat Freddy
Lord of all PBR's
Lord of all PBR's
Fat Freddy

Number of posts : 34630
Age : 50

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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 4:07 pm

I don't do black metal at all, NSBM or otherwise, so those guys can stew in their own hateful juices all they want, they ain't geting any of my money anyway.

I can take or leave Pantera and I've never been much more than a casual Slayer fan either (tho I do own more Slayer discs than Panteras). I remember all the whoop-de-doo over the lyrics to "Angel of Death" but honestly I never gave 'em much thought beyond "I guess they ran out of cheesy Satanic things to write about so now they're writing cheesy horror stories." Laughing very hard

I do remember Slayer catching some additional sh*t about their cover of Minor Threat's "Guilty of Being White" (on the Undisputed Attitude album) cuz apparently they changed the lyric to "Guilty of being right" in the last verse, so some peeps thought they were equating "white" with "right," or something.

Of course, they also did a song with Ice-T on the Judgment Night soundtrack so who knows?

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Last edited by Fat Freddy on Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:14 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Required Fields
Metal is my Life
Metal is my Life
Required Fields

Number of posts : 25604
Age : 35

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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 4:11 pm

Well, Slayer are a mixed race band. Araya is Chilean. Plus, they have toured with Anthrax multiple times, and Scott Ian is openly Jewish.

Plus, in the late 1980s, Jeff Hanneman had a short lived punk project with Rocky George of Suicidal Tendencies, who is black. They recorded a song with Ice-T on the Judgement Night soundtrack in the 1990s.
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Troublezone
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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 4:18 pm

Slayer (or specifically Jeff Hanneman) used provocative lyrics for shock or in character of real evil people like the notorious nazi Josef Mengele. You have to take it in context. Jeff wasn’t racist. He was good friends with Rocky George from Suicidal Tendencies. Not to mention that two members of Slayer are Latino.
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Troublezone
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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 4:29 pm

Besides Jeff Hanneman, Lemmy from Motörhead also had a fascination with nazi and WW2 related artifacts. And everyone knows Lemmy wasn’t racist either. They just were drawn to the imagery.
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Hadley
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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 4:51 pm

I always thought Slayer's "Behind the Crooked Cross" was about a nazi soldier questioning the beliefs and ideals of the nazis ("Trapped by a cause I once understood") and that one was written by Hanneman.
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Lari
Metal is in my blood
Metal is in my blood
Lari

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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 5:08 pm

Troublezone wrote:
Besides Jeff Hanneman, Lemmy from Motörhead also had a fascination with nazi and WW2 related artifacts. And everyone knows Lemmy wasn’t racist either. They just were drawn to the imagery.
In Britan, Nazi paraphernalia was a cool thing to possess immediately after the war. Like trophies soldiers had when they returned home from the war. Does not mean they were supporting the cause, quite the contrary. More like conquering the beast. The threat of the nazi Germany was so real and these people fought to put an end to it.
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nevermore
Metal is my Life
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nevermore

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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 5:09 pm

Hadley wrote:
I always thought Slayer's "Behind the Crooked Cross" was about a nazi soldier questioning the beliefs and ideals of the nazis ("Trapped by a cause I once understood") and that one was written by Hanneman.

That's exactly what it's about.
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MetalGuy71
Bukkake Tsunami
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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 10:00 pm

Troublezone wrote:
Besides Jeff Hanneman, Lemmy from Motörhead also had a fascination with nazi and WW2 related artifacts. And everyone knows Lemmy wasn’t racist either. They just were drawn to the imagery.

Lemmy often defended his Nazi collection by saying "They had a cooler look. If the Allies had better uniforms, I'd collect them."

I never gave much thought to the Slayer imagery for the same reason. It just looked cool. I never thought of them as Nazi supporters or racists. 'Angel of Death' was just telling the story of Mengele, not "glorifying" him. History unfortunately isn't always nice & pretty.

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Troublezone
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Troublezone

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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 1:17 am

MetalGuy71 wrote:
Troublezone wrote:
Besides Jeff Hanneman, Lemmy from Motörhead also had a fascination with nazi and WW2 related artifacts. And everyone knows Lemmy wasn’t racist either. They just were drawn to the imagery.

Lemmy often defended his Nazi collection by saying "They had a cooler look. If the Allies had better uniforms, I'd collect them."

I never gave much thought to the Slayer imagery for the same reason. It just looked cool. I never thought of them as Nazi supporters or racists. 'Angel of Death' was just telling the story of Mengele, not "glorifying" him. History unfortunately isn't always nice & pretty.

That’s right.
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brokentulsa
Heart of Metal
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brokentulsa

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PostSubject: Re: Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events   Metal bands' records on race in light of recent events Icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 1:54 am

Dont really care what the bands personally believe and as for lyrics...whatever. If I like the songs/Band I buy it. And Lemmy was right, Nazi uniforms/medals/patches are way cooler...Thats why I have mask (covid) I wear now with Iron Cross' on Them and some with Flaming Skulls... As for ink I have Iron cross' and confederate flags... Lots of bands have ink like that and then there is southern Rock with all their imagery Laughing
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