Is DLR era Van Halen Metal?

Actually he was in his mid 20's.

mc666 wrote:

Actually he was in his mid 20's.

Lari wrote:

Fair enough.

Just bear in mind it's 2016. Now imagine it's 1978, and then try listing your favourite metal bands.

i probably would not have known about Riot until like 1979 or 1980 (or 81) because i would have not had the internet just magazines and judging the artwork, lol

so you make a point but until like 1982 and 83 is when you'd be judging by record labels (Metal Blade comes to mind).

HeavyThrashhead wrote:

Lari wrote:

Fair enough.

Just bear in mind it's 2016. Now imagine it's 1978, and then try listing your favourite metal bands.

i probably would not have known about Riot until like 1979 or 1980 (or 81) because i would have not had the internet just magazines and judging the artwork, lol

so you make a point but until like 1982 and 83 is when you'd be judging by record labels (Metal Blade comes to mind).

How much did magazines pay attention to bands like Riot back then? Especially in the states. Same with many other bands.

666_Evil_666 wrote:

HeavyThrashhead wrote:

Lari wrote:

Fair enough.

Just bear in mind it's 2016. Now imagine it's 1978, and then try listing your favourite metal bands.

i probably would not have known about Riot until like 1979 or 1980 (or 81) because i would have not had the internet just magazines and judging the artwork, lol

so you make a point but until like 1982 and 83 is when you'd be judging by record labels (Metal Blade comes to mind).

How much did magazines pay attention to bands like Riot back then? Especially in the states. Same with many other bands.

mostly in europe 'cos Riot did not release Narita until 79 wich ofcourse was released through Capitol Records, but even then they were still getting more press in europe.

mc666 wrote:

Lari wrote:

But to deny they ever were metal at all is just bizarre. And a revisionist version of history.

I wouldn't argue that they were never considered metal. Just as during the 80's, Bon Jovi & Nelson were considered metal by many.

Me personally though, I do not consider them metal. Never have. Even the DLR era. I call it hard rock, just as I do the Scorpions. When it comes to whats metal, rock, grunge, etc. I gotta paraphrase Potter Stewart. I know it when I hear it.

And this is where I would agree that your opinion is valid. (Though I'm not sure how you can listen to songs like Speedy's Coming or Hellcat and not hear heavy metal.)

But to deny that people in the 70's regularly called bands like Van Halen and Scorpions metal is just bizarre when there is such a plethora of evidence to the contrary.

These guys arguing that the term wasn't even used in the 70's or that you can't call them metal because "a magazine" says so it ridiculous. It was never "a magazine", it was all of them. Circus, Hit Parader, Creem, Sounds, Rolling Stone, etc.

Lari wrote:

We're talking about whether Van Halen was metal. They were. A very important 70's metal band.

But then they moved on. In the 80s, even before DLR left, they chose not to stay in the confines of heavy metal.

And you know what? Heavy metal moved on, too. To more and more extreme sounding metal.

So the title in topic is debatable.

But to deny they ever were metal at all is just bizarre. And a revisionist version of history. It's
something kids in the year 2054 will say about today's most brutal and extreme bands, "oh those guys weren't metal, they were soft pop-ish rock'n'roll. They used electricity for amplification instead of controlled nuclear detonations which is something all metal bands do now".

Asking band members about their own music is useless, too. If we were to believe them, every band would have their own genre, and even the worst bands would be making "good music".

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

James B. wrote:

I posted this is another thread on this board a few years ago. (2011) Pretty much on this same debate.

"In 1977 you could not compare KISS to Slayer in regards of musical and/or lyrical content.
Slayer wasn't around, or anything similar to make anykind of debate over.

In 1977 standards. the application of defintion regarding the term, "heavy metal", Kiss and contemporaries apply to what was merited to that time.

In today's standards, you have many many bands to compare with as far as musical, "heaviness", "aggression", "tempo" or lyrical "imagery" or "mood".

ToB is putting the cart before the horse. Ult's entire point is those bands were "metal" in the 70's but opposed to what transpired in the 30 something years since...well the size of the brush has not only broadened but diversiified in the colors one can paint.


For example, in 1980, I could tell somebody that I played in a metal band and they would pretty much know where I was coming from. In 2010, I could tell somebody that I play in a metal band and they would reply, "what kind of metal band ?" Point being, back then it didn't need to be explained, it was understood what the term meant or implied. Nowadays, it is so broken down and dissected that what it isn't seems to mean more than is."

Excellent (re)post.

tohostudios wrote:

Why even enter into a debate like this?  You know it's a quagmire...

TrogDawn wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

Why even enter into a debate like this?  You know it's a quagmire...

'cause it's fun!

666_Evil_666 wrote:

HeavyThrashhead wrote:

Lari wrote:

Fair enough.

Just bear in mind it's 2016. Now imagine it's 1978, and then try listing your favourite metal bands.

i probably would not have known about Riot until like 1979 or 1980 (or 81) because i would have not had the internet just magazines and judging the artwork, lol

so you make a point but until like 1982 and 83 is when you'd be judging by record labels (Metal Blade comes to mind).

How much did magazines pay attention to bands like Riot back then? Especially in the states. Same with many other bands.

Riot got no love for magazines, but then neither did Starz, Raven, or Anvil.

ultmetal wrote:

TrogDawn wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

Why even enter into a debate like this?  You know it's a quagmire...

'cause it's fun!

Fun to raise the blood pressure!

I am sure if Van Halen made their debut in 2008 instead of 1978 they would not be considered metal, but then if Van Halen did debut back in 1978 the world of metal would look and sound vastly different. I am 45, while I agree that the style, definition and even what term metal means has changed since 1978, I do consider Van Halen a metal band and a metal pioneer.

Phew. 7 pages on the same debate we have every few years or so. And some say this place is a ghost town.

Thrasher73 wrote:

666_Evil_666 wrote:

brokentulsa wrote:

I totally agree with everything that ultmetal said above... I was there and we called it all metal in the 70s... Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Van Halen, Deep Purple, Jimi Hendrix and even bands like Kiss and Slade and the Sweet we called heavy metal...the magazines and radio stations called it heavy metal and so did the promoters and record companies....so just curious 666_Evil_666 and Death Sentinel..where were you in the late 70s  

Does it matter where I was? or are you trying to play the metal elitist card.

Well let's see, you're 115 so in the 70s you were 70 something. Had you went to the nursing home yet or still living in your moms basement?

You better respect the elder's of this forum young man. I could be your father.

Fellas, you can stop feeding the troll now. He's been bounced.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fellas, you can stop feeding the troll now. He's been bounced.

But, he saved this board from dying. How could you do that to our savior?

Yes I would say they are heavy metal

This does not necessarily reflect or affect my view of a band (or VH in this case) but a way I have always personally decided if a band was Metal or not was the likeliness of hearing them on the radio. I mean, of course, FM radio at 2 in the afternoon and not a late night specialized show dedicated to Metal (Metal Shop, Metal Zone, Headbangers Ball, etc.) or on Mtv at the same time (back in the day of course). This litmus test, if you will, still somewhat holds up today. Although, 25+ years ago, I didn't think this much about the original question. Lol.

Thrasher73 wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fellas, you can stop feeding the troll now. He's been bounced.

But, he saved this board from dying. How could you do that to our savior?

Freddy just didn't get the humor and got all pissy eyed.

Thrasher73 wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fellas, you can stop feeding the troll now. He's been bounced.

But, he saved this board from dying. How could you do that to our savior?

You'd be surprised at how easy it was.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fellas, you can stop feeding the troll now. He's been bounced.

Huzzah! So was he really just one guy or a three-member schizo?

corplhicks wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fellas, you can stop feeding the troll now. He's been bounced.

Huzzah! So was he really just one guy or a three-member schizo?

Don't know, don't care.

yes I agree VAN HALEN is 1970s heavy metal...until they sold out with the van hagar abortions.

Sooo,,how bout that Van Halen huh?

censorship / communism / freethink is alive and well on this board.
Not surprised, but admit am a little surprised it was done to me and not to trolls.