.

I've always assumed that pretty much all official Live albums are mostly done in the studio.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Cowboys from Hell is released in 1990. Phil is predominantly singing in that heavier style with a handful of 80s metal throwback moments.

Months later, Exhorder releases Slaughter in the Vatican. Oddly enough, Kyle Thomas, who never sounded like Phil prior to Phil's involvement with Pantera, sounds at times similar to Phil.

In 1992 Pantera releases Vulgar Display of Power to huge success. Phil is now singing an even heavier style, no more 80s metal wails or anything.

Also in 1992, a month after Vulgar Display of Power came out, Exhorder releases The Law. It is here, on this album, that Kyle REALLY sounds like Phil. A style Phil, to varying degrees, had been using for years.

Not to discredit Pantera (I quite like them), but I feel like Phil's vox sound quite different from Cowboys to Vulgar. And I feel like the would-be-Vulgar style of vox are quite plain on Slaughter in the Vatican.

Whether Phil was influenced by (most likely), ripped off (I don't imagine so) or it's a coincidence that he sounds like (no chance) Exhorder, it doesn't really matter to me. I think it's plain as day that his vocal delivery on Vulgar is pretty damned similar to Vatican.

I don't care either way. But that's my opinion on the subject, after listening to Cowboys, Vulgar, Vatican and The Law at great length.

See, I don't think they sound different other than he's singing heavier on Vulgar Display of Power and has shed all remnants of that 80s metal stuff. The similarity on Slaughter in the Vatican is far more comparable to Cowboys from Hell. In fact, both albums, vocally, sort of mirror each other, I think. The same for The Law and Vulgar Display of Power.

And who knows why. All I know is that we'll never know, but to assume Pantera was the band who copied Exhorder and not the other way around, to me, makes far less sense if we're going by known facts.

Eyesore wrote:

And who knows why. All I know is that we'll never know, but to assume Pantera was the band who copied Exhorder and not the other way around, to me, makes far less sense if we're going by known facts.

I agree that we'll never know who/if one copied the other, but I can't agree that they are known facts, given that I hear the same vocals differently than you. I can't call that a fact, neither in my favor or yours.

And again, I don't think it really matters. It's never affected my enjoyment of either band's records.

And no matter what, you can never take the lyrics away from Exhorder: "I'll piss on your grave! Total Desecration! I spit in your face! For no apparent! Reason!"

The main fact that I am referring to, is the fact that Pantera did it first.

Glower wrote:

I think that the recording studios equipment has changed, into something for the worse.
Instead of recording a band - they piece it together - ha ha ha -
you know, vocals one day - lead guitar two weeks later -
bass player is 400 miles away, in a different studio - re-laying down the track -
F***, I bought Judas Priest live the other day - to blast " Out in the Cold " -
the first song has Halford singing- then - surprise surprise -
his voice is doing the back-up vocals at the very same exact time ?????
LIVE CONCERT ???????  
It's only gotten worse with time for many bands trying to 'capture' their sound - ha ha

I think this actually has a pretty sizeable bit of heft on this argument. I mean, when did recording move almost completely into the digital realm? Late 90s and early 00s? Granted, that's a bit past the point we're talking about here, but think about what that means - even the most overdubbed and "produced" albums, regardless of genre, prior to this point were built at least on a bedrock recording of guys (or gals) playing live in a room to establish the basic song structure. Then, they could go back and overdub a bazillion backing vocals and guitar tracks, but it still had the human element of people playing in a room. Also, most bands were not so "studio" in their approach that the songs were written and assembled, Frankenstein-style, in the studio.

Hell, for that matter, most of the songs being recorded and released, particularly in metal, were more likely than not "road tested" as well, so there was a more organic process involve both in writing and recording the stuff we ended up hearing. Thrash isn't my sole genre and I certainly wasn't following it in the early 90s, so I can't comment on that part of it, but I think ignoring the influence that this tech shift has had on ALL music would be missing out on a huge part of the puzzle if we're trying to figure out if/when there was a big sea change in how thrash sounded.

Painkiller wrote:

.

What's with deleting all your posts throughout the forum? Regretful?

TheUnborn wrote:

Painkiller wrote:

.

What's with deleting all your posts throughout the forum? Regretful?

Yes, i dont know why you did so. If you believe in what you were talking about why you delate your messages Painkiller??? Now this post doesnt make any sence anymore, its not possible to follow the storyline. Anyway, live sucks   

krokus wrote:

TheUnborn wrote:

Painkiller wrote:

.

What's with deleting all your posts throughout the forum? Regretful?

Yes, i dont know why you did so. If you believe in what you were talking about why you delate your messages Painkiller??? Now this post doesnt make any sence anymore, its not possible to follow the storyline. Anyway, live sucks   

He deleted everything because he was over here being a trash-talking turd, while on his own forum he was found to be admonishing trash-talking turds. When he was called out about it, he "deleted" all his posts.

Eyesore wrote:

The main fact that I am referring to, is the fact that Pantera did it first.

There's also this possibility:

Pantera's RELEASE DATES were first...doesn't mean they didn't hear each others' stuff and were influenced by it in turn. Pantera just may be lucky in that.

Arguably, if there was only a month between the release of The Law and VDoP, there was no TIME to rip anyone off unless they had heard the stuff extensively prior to release.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

The main fact that I am referring to, is the fact that Pantera did it first.

There's also this possibility:

Pantera's RELEASE DATES were first...doesn't mean they didn't hear each others' stuff and were influenced by it in turn. Pantera just may be lucky in that.

Arguably, if there was only a month between the release of The Law and VDoP, there was no TIME to rip anyone off unless they had heard the stuff extensively prior to release.

THANK YOU.  I guess it takes someone who has been in a band to understand this basic concept.

Those bands were friends and probably saw each other play new material live or in rehearsal months or years before THE OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE OMG I GOT FACTS TO BACK ME UP.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

The main fact that I am referring to, is the fact that Pantera did it first.

There's also this possibility:

Pantera's RELEASE DATES were first...doesn't mean they didn't hear each others' stuff and were influenced by it in turn. Pantera just may be lucky in that.

Arguably, if there was only a month between the release of The Law and VDoP, there was no TIME to rip anyone off unless they had heard the stuff extensively prior to release.

THANK YOU.  I guess it takes someone who has been in a band to understand this basic concept.

Those bands were friends and probably saw each other play new material live or in rehearsal months or years before THE OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE OMG I GOT FACTS TO BACK ME UP.

I've been in dozens of bands. "Probably" doesn't work for me. Sorry. We can speculate all day long what might have happened, but all we have is what ACTUALLY happened as far as we know, and that is: Pantera did it first.

Again, there simply isn't nearly enough evidence to prove Pantera copied anyone.

Eyesore wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

The main fact that I am referring to, is the fact that Pantera did it first.

There's also this possibility:

Pantera's RELEASE DATES were first...doesn't mean they didn't hear each others' stuff and were influenced by it in turn. Pantera just may be lucky in that.

Arguably, if there was only a month between the release of The Law and VDoP, there was no TIME to rip anyone off unless they had heard the stuff extensively prior to release.

THANK YOU.  I guess it takes someone who has been in a band to understand this basic concept.

Those bands were friends and probably saw each other play new material live or in rehearsal months or years before THE OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE OMG I GOT FACTS TO BACK ME UP.

I've been in dozens of bands. "Probably" doesn't work for me. Sorry. We can speculate all day long what might have happened, but all we have is what ACTUALLY happened as far as we know, and that is: Pantera did it first.

Again, there simply isn't nearly enough evidence to prove Pantera copied anyone.

OK, it just makes no sense that you think a MONTH is enough time to hear an album, digest an album, write songs ripping it off, record those songs, and release the album...especially back then...it's not possible...it's not how it works.

Saying Pantera "did it first" based on a release date a MONTH prior to another band doesn't make it so.

Fair to say too that there could have been a lot of cross-pollinating if the members of the two bands were friends.

Think of it this way: if everyone was hanging out, smoking and drinking together while listening to the same music and getting the same rush out of it, doesn't it stand to reason that they might have both gone back to their respective bands with those influences "ringing in their ears" and THAT was the reason for the commonality rather than because one ripped the other off?

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

The main fact that I am referring to, is the fact that Pantera did it first.

There's also this possibility:

Pantera's RELEASE DATES were first...doesn't mean they didn't hear each others' stuff and were influenced by it in turn. Pantera just may be lucky in that.

Arguably, if there was only a month between the release of The Law and VDoP, there was no TIME to rip anyone off unless they had heard the stuff extensively prior to release.

THANK YOU.  I guess it takes someone who has been in a band to understand this basic concept.

Those bands were friends and probably saw each other play new material live or in rehearsal months or years before THE OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE OMG I GOT FACTS TO BACK ME UP.

I've been in dozens of bands. "Probably" doesn't work for me. Sorry. We can speculate all day long what might have happened, but all we have is what ACTUALLY happened as far as we know, and that is: Pantera did it first.

Again, there simply isn't nearly enough evidence to prove Pantera copied anyone.

OK, it just makes no sense that you think a MONTH is enough time to hear an album, digest an album, write songs ripping it off, record those songs, and release the album...especially back then...it's not possible...it's not how it works.

Saying Pantera "did it first" based on a release date a MONTH prior to another band doesn't make it so.

I don't think anyone ripped off anyone, to be honest. But for argument's sake, I simply stated that if one was going to believe one band ripped off the other, it makes more sense that Exhorder ripped off Pantera. That's going by the same logic that makes people say the opposite.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Saying Pantera "did it first" based on a release date a MONTH prior to another band doesn't make it so.

Plus, I still contend that Cowboys doesn't even sound much like Exhorder. His vocal style, to my (admittedly untrained) ears sounds different, and waay more like Exhorder, on Vulgar.

It's more credible that PANTERA (Phil) were influenced by EXHORDER because of the FACT that he wore their shirt around that time rather than the fact that their release dates were merely a month apart. What is a month's difference in a release date anyway? Wasn't "Bonded by Blood" delayed a year, for instance? There are many other examples of this kind of record company delay.

I'm not saying Phil "ripped them off" or that either thing definitely happened, but I think it's likely that Phil was the one influenced. And there is nothing wrong with that because he did a lot more with it. There's more to music than just the style you play, there's the quality behind it and PANTERA had more.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Saying Pantera "did it first" based on a release date a MONTH prior to another band doesn't make it so.

Plus, I still contend that Cowboys doesn't even sound much like Exhorder. His vocal style, to my (admittedly untrained) ears sounds different, and waay more like Exhorder, on Vulgar.

They're comparing the release dates of VDOP and The Law.

Temple of Blood wrote:

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Saying Pantera "did it first" based on a release date a MONTH prior to another band doesn't make it so.

Plus, I still contend that Cowboys doesn't even sound much like Exhorder. His vocal style, to my (admittedly untrained) ears sounds different, and waay more like Exhorder, on Vulgar.

They're comparing the release dates of VDOP and The Law.

Oh, I know, but since I feel that the vocal style on Vulgar is similar to that on Vatican...that's where I was going with that. That Exhorder utilized the vocal style two years before Pantera (on recording, anyway).

Though as I mentioned earlier in this thread (back when it had a name, not a punctuation mark for a title), I like Vulgar and don't try and use that to diminish the record. This discussion just inevitably comes up every time.

I do agree with you, though, that the quality of the music is the key. I don't know who I like better of the two bands, as I like them both quite a bit.

Eyesore wrote:

He deleted everything because he was over here being a trash-talking turd, while on his own forum he was found to be admonishing trash-talking turds. When he was called out about it, he "deleted" all his posts.

F*ck off with that bullshit.

I came here to post my opinions, and I was given shit by people like you. I know that some posts I've made could have been worded better, but no one is perfect. I tried to make more civil posts to minimize conflicts around, and I was still given lots of shit for it. I'm not the best with my choice of words, so it's no surprise that tools like you would take offense to something that I said.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand on that note... that's about enough of this circle jerk.

This thread is hereby locked.