A Bands Image

James B. wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Well, in the early days of the band they weren't going to set the world on fire with their instrumental prowess...they NEEDED a gimmick.

instrumental prowess is meaningless to most if you cannot write a catchy tune

Believe me, I'm aware of that.

I also seem to remember that none of their early albums sold that well and they were considering throwing in the towel until ALIVE blew up like crazy.

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I also seem to remember that none of their early albums sold that well and they were considering throwing in the towel until ALIVE blew up like crazy.

I just finished reading Ace Frehley's book and he sez that over those first few records, they were on a slow climb. The first album sold about 75,000 in its first year, which wasn't much, but it was enough for them to make a second. Hotter than Hell did about 100,000 and Dressed To Kill did about double that.

If KISS had been on a major label with deeper pockets they probably could've trucked along for another two or three records before eventually making some sort of break through, but Casablanca was little more than a start up indie label at the time (KISS was its first signing) and they rolled the dice on that first ALIVE album knowing that it was either going to make or break not only the band, but the label cuz Casablanca was on the verge of going out of business.

I still kinda care what a band looks like.

It's not gonna make or break 'em if the music isn't good, but sure, I get a little disappointed when the band in question doesn't live up to the image I have in my mind. But it's not something I dwell on.

I like Slipknot cause the music makes my displaced anger act out in the psychological transformation of a maggot into a fly. The masks have nothing to do with it.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

I also seem to remember that none of their early albums sold that well and they were considering throwing in the towel until ALIVE blew up like crazy.

I just finished reading Ace Frehley's book and he sez that over those first few records, they were on a slow climb. The first album sold about 75,000 in its first year, which wasn't much, but it was enough for them to make a second. Hotter than Hell did about 100,000 and Dressed To Kill did about double that.

If KISS had been on a major label with deeper pockets they probably could've trucked along for another two or three records before eventually making some sort of break through, but Casablanca was little more than a start up indie label at the time (KISS was its first signing) and they rolled the dice on that first ALIVE album knowing that it was either going to make or break not only the band, but the label cuz Casablanca was on the verge of going out of business.

Since I heard how big Kiss got after Alive came out I always wondered why? What was just so great about that album that made them so popular after all that time? All those songs were on the previous albums so why didn't take a live album to make them popular?

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

I also seem to remember that none of their early albums sold that well and they were considering throwing in the towel until ALIVE blew up like crazy.

I just finished reading Ace Frehley's book and he sez that over those first few records, they were on a slow climb. The first album sold about 75,000 in its first year, which wasn't much, but it was enough for them to make a second. Hotter than Hell did about 100,000 and Dressed To Kill did about double that.

If KISS had been on a major label with deeper pockets they probably could've trucked along for another two or three records before eventually making some sort of break through, but Casablanca was little more than a start up indie label at the time (KISS was its first signing) and they rolled the dice on that first ALIVE album knowing that it was either going to make or break not only the band, but the label cuz Casablanca was on the verge of going out of business.

Since I heard how big Kiss got after Alive came out I always wondered why? What was just so great about that album that made them so popular after all that time? All those songs were on the previous albums so why didn't take a live album to make them popular?

To hear them tell it, it was the energy present in the recording...it came across better recorded live with a crowd than the studio recordings.

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

Since I heard how big Kiss got after Alive came out I always wondered why? What was just so great about that album that made them so popular after all that time? All those songs were on the previous albums so why didn't take a live album to make them popular?

Because every song on that live record literally BLOWS the studio versions away, they never captured their sound until ALIVE. I would also venture to say they never equaled the energy of that album again.

I don't know what happened that caused people to start ignoring live albums out of hand. I can't even count the number of people here that say "I don't buy live albums". I just can't fathom that, when I was growing up live albums were my favorites.

If Harry Conklin can look like a shoe salesman but sing like he does then i'm ok with it.

Yea but no one heard that until they bought it. So what made everyone want to buy that album?

Dark Horseman wrote:

If Harry Conklin can look like a shoe salesman but sing like he does then i'm ok with it.

I totally forgot about him. Thats a great example.

I heard Madonna before I ever saw a video ad I STILL didn't wanna buy it

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

Yea but no one heard that until they bought it. So what made everyone want to buy that album?

"Rock And Roll All Nite" was released as the single along with Alive which definitely helped.

ALIVE! stayed on the Billboard charts for 110 weeks (peaking at #9) and sold over 9 million copies.

It was a perfect storm, great album released at just the right time in history.

Peter Frampton was the next artist that kick-started his career with a live album.

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Peter Frampton was the next artist that kick-started his career with a live album.

I think Cheap Trick was kinda the same way. Their albums sold poor-to-ok at first, but after Live at Budokan, their sales went through the roof.

I'm one that doesn't quite get the appeal of live albums either, but there's no doubt that for a time, they could make-or-break a band.

The first band to do that live album succes beyond studio releases was Allman Brother Band with A Fillmore East and Humble Pie-Performance:Rockin The Fillmore. A bit of useless trivia

MetalGuy71 wrote:

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Peter Frampton was the next artist that kick-started his career with a live album.

I think Cheap Trick was kinda the same way. Their albums sold poor-to-ok at first, but after Live at Budokan, their sales went through the roof.

I'm one that doesn't quite get the appeal of live albums either, but there's no doubt that for a time, they could make-or-break a band.

Cheap Trick was one of those bands from the 70's where their live album gave their album sales a huge kick in the ass.

Ultimatum's first promo shot. SERIOUSLY lacking in image:

Dig those acid washed jeans!

ultmetal wrote:

Ultimatum's first promo shot. SERIOUSLY lacking in image:

Dig those acid washed jeans!

Totally avoiding that band

James B. wrote:

The first band to do that live album succes beyond studio releases was Allman Brother Band with A Fillmore East and Humble Pie-Performance:Rockin The Fillmore. A bit of useless trivia

That was actually my next questions. You read my mind lol

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

James B. wrote:

The first band to do that live album succes beyond studio releases was Allman Brother Band with A Fillmore East and Humble Pie-Performance:Rockin The Fillmore. A bit of useless trivia

That was actually my next questions. You read my mind lol

1971

James B. wrote:

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

James B. wrote:

The first band to do that live album succes beyond studio releases was Allman Brother Band with A Fillmore East and Humble Pie-Performance:Rockin The Fillmore. A bit of useless trivia

That was actually my next questions. You read my mind lol

1971

Damn your good

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Gene has gone on record saying that Kiss without the image and the show is essentially forgettable.

KISS needed the image and the stage show for their target market. Their target market was kids...and they created that image to capitalize on that target market. There wasn't a playground in the U.S. that didn't have kids talking about Kiss, trading cards and stickers, buying comic books, arguing over which member was the coolest, etc.

It was a masterstroke of marketing, it made them the biggest band in the world.

Does that image really matter when the lights go off and you put Love Gun on the turntable? No.

They didn't go after kids specifically til after Alive...all that crazy merch came after Alive hit so big. I don't think they began as a band that wanted to target kids...that marketing realization came later...they started out wanting to be something big, flamboyant and loud.

Kiss didn't have any influence to sell merchandise in the beginning, once the albums started selling so did the image. I don't thnk it had anything to do with who the band was targeting, they were going after anyone with a dollar in their pocket and worked hard to convince them to part with it.

A bands image is very important in music and goes much further than stage clothes. Many bands have worked very hard to re-cast themselves to the new younger crowd with varying degrees of sucess. The bands that have an image that was new and/or radical at the time have the hardest time. Twisted Sister is a perfect example of this. The band has no market outside of their original fanbase dispite repeated efforts to bring in new fans. Kiss is still around today because of their image. Had they not put on the makeup, chances are they would have faded into the history books. Bands like Pink Floyd, Def Leppard, Aerosmith and Van Halen took a much safer route with their image that allows for changing times. A bands image determines how broad their fan base will be and also for how long. I for one much prefer the safer image route which puts more focus on the music and less on the photo shoots. I will say that some bands can pull it off, look at Motley Crue and how often they recast themselves even during their heigth of popularity.

I guess I'm looking at "image" from the point of view of how well a band's image translates over a period of time. I'm not the same person I was 30 years ago and what I thought was cool then I'm not too fond of now. I've always thought the best bands are the ones that use "image" so well that you don't notice it so if it does change it still maintains the un-noticed status. When the music and image work so well together that one doesn't overpower the other the band has it going on. Now on the point of the image fitting the music, that is my point. If you do notice it, then chances are the band doesn't had an identity and is still searching. I've never been in the music business and only have a fan's perspective.

Graham Bonnet hardly looks like a "typical" rock singer, but he's able to keep credibility despite his "image".

RUSH opened for KISS on a couple early tours (74-75), it's interesting to me to compare the marketing aspects of those two bands and how their careers developed.

KISS had all the theatrics. The makeup, the pyro, the blood spitting and fire breathing, the exploding pickup on Ace's guitar, etc.

RUSH wore some goofy robes on stage but that was basically it as far as "image" was concerned.

KISS thrived on that whirlwind of marketing and persona...and also recorded some great music too...but somehow the music feels secondary to the whole "experience" that was KISS.

RUSH on the other hand relied solely on their music and their incredible technical chops to put them across.

Both strategies worked and both bands are legendary.

In the grand scheme of things though, I admire RUSH much more for the way they did it.

ultmetal wrote:

Ultimatum's first promo shot. SERIOUSLY lacking in image:

Dig those acid washed jeans!

Pfffft! Who art these pozers? Some of them have short hair! Their steele is neither arcane nor tr00! Ehehehehehehe