Boy Howdy!

ultmetal wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

None of those bands were metal. But metal DID exist by 1976. Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Motorhead, as well as some stuff from Budgie, Deep Purple and Rush are metal.

WRONG!

Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, BOC, Kiss were American heavy metal in the 1970's. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a historical, documented fact. By the end of the 1970's, many of these bands were struggling and heavy metal was declared "dead" by many. However, as we know, a whole second wave of American heavy metal bands rose to the surface.

Deep Purple, UFO, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Queen, Uriah Heep, etc. were the first wave of European heavy metal. By 1980 a second wave of bands followed that were dubbed the NWOBHM.

Yes, there is a difference in sound between the American and European bands, but it was all under the heavy metal banner. Heavy metal was birthed at the end of the 1960's and came into it's own by the 1970's. It was the fans and the fan run publications in the 70's that dubbed the bands "heavy metal".

The definition of heavy metal has changed over the years and many bands that were generally held as heavy metal bands in the 70's now have the tag "hard rock". It's a fitting term if you compare what we have now to what was happening four decades ago. However, that doesn't change history. Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, BOC, Kiss, Deep Purple, UFO, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Queen, etc. were the heavy metal bands on the 1970's.

Yes, I know...

True!

Plus, there is a reason it is the called the NEW wave of British Heavy Metal, because there was a first wave that included Sabbath, Purple, Queen, UFO, Priest, Etc......

thejokeriv wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

None of those bands were metal. But metal DID exist by 1976. Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Motorhead, as well as some stuff from Budgie, Deep Purple and Rush are metal.

WRONG!

Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, BOC, Kiss were American heavy metal in the 1970's. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a historical, documented fact. By the end of the 1970's, many of these bands were struggling and heavy metal was declared "dead" by many. However, as we know, a whole second wave of American heavy metal bands rose to the surface.

Deep Purple, UFO, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Queen, Uriah Heep, etc. were the first wave of European heavy metal. By 1980 a second wave of bands followed that were dubbed the NWOBHM.

Yes, there is a difference in sound between the American and European bands, but it was all under the heavy metal banner. Heavy metal was birthed at the end of the 1960's and came into it's own by the 1970's. It was the fans and the fan run publications in the 70's that dubbed the bands "heavy metal".

The definition of heavy metal has changed over the years and many bands that were generally held as heavy metal bands in the 70's now have the tag "hard rock". It's a fitting term if you compare what we have now to what was happening four decades ago. However, that doesn't change history. Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, BOC, Kiss, Deep Purple, UFO, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Queen, etc. were the heavy metal bands on the 1970's.

Yes, I know...

True!

Plus, there is a reason it is the called the NEW wave of British Heavy Metal, because there was a first wave that included Sabbath, Purple, Queen, UFO, Priest, Etc......

There does have to be an OLD before there is a NEW.

Sabbath and Priest still sound metal to this day and they were the heaviest bands that were along that day.Aerosmith will allways be a hard rock band to me. If you listen to the hair bands that were around in their hey days, they all sounded like Zepplin or Aerosmith, not Sabbath or Priest.
I'm not saying that Aerosmith wasn't CONSIDERED a 'heavy metal" band back then, but they shouldn't have been. Aerosmith and Queen have lots of Rock n Roll elements that Priest and Sabbath didn't have.BOC I consider progressive rock.

Cognitive Dissonance wrote:

Sabbath and Priest still sound metal to this day and they were the heaviest bands that were along that day.Aerosmith will allways be a hard rock band to me. If you listen to the hair bands that were around in their hey days, they all sounded like Zepplin or Aerosmith, not Sabbath or Priest.
I'm not saying that Aerosmith wasn't CONSIDERED a 'heavy metal" band back then, but they shouldn't have been. Aerosmith and Queen have lots of Rock n Roll elements that Priest and Sabbath didn't have.BOC I consider progressive rock.

But the point is they were called Heavy Metal in the 70's.

Cognitive Dissonance wrote:

Sabbath and Priest still sound metal to this day and they were the heaviest bands that were along that day.Aerosmith will allways be a hard rock band to me. If you listen to the hair bands that were around in their hey days, they all sounded like Zepplin or Aerosmith, not Sabbath or Priest.
I'm not saying that Aerosmith wasn't CONSIDERED a 'heavy metal" band back then, but they shouldn't have been. Aerosmith and Queen have lots of Rock n Roll elements that Priest and Sabbath didn't have.BOC I consider progressive rock.

I respectfully disagree. Once again, this is trying to impose a modern definition of heavy metal on something that was already established and defined by fans and media several decades before. It's like trying to argue with history itself.

All heavy metal has elements of rock and roll in them. Metal is a derivative of rock and roll after all.

As far as "heaviness", songs like "No Surprise" and "Nobody's Fault" is every bit as dark and heavy, if not heavier, than songs like "Iron Man", "Paranoid", "Livin After Midnight" and "Breaking the Law". Nobody would deny that "Breaking the Law" is a heavy metal song, yet somehow "Nobodys Fault" is hard rock?

This is similar argument that some younger fans have about Metallica, Megadeth and Anthrax not being thrash bands because they aren't as heavy and fast as Destruction, Kreator, Sodom, etc.

Sabbath are almost in a class by themselves. I think they were by far the "heaviest" of the bands back then. "Symptom of the Universe" has to be the heaviest song of the 70's.
Ult, I'm only two years younger than you, but I'm amazed at our different perspectives. Maybe it's cause I've never been an Aerosmith fan. Then again, other than Sabbath, I dislike most 70's rock other than Sabbath and Hawkwind.

Cognitive Dissonance wrote:

Sabbath are almost in a class by themselves. I think they were by far the "heaviest" of the bands back then. "Symptom of the Universe" has to be the heaviest song of the 70's.
Ult, I'm only two years younger than you, but I'm amazed at our different perspectives. Maybe it's cause I've never been an Aerosmith fan. Then again, other than Sabbath, I dislike most 70's rock other than Sabbath and Hawkwind.

I got into music very early on. Started listening to it when I was in grade school. Got into bands like Nugent, Thin Lizzy, UFO, Sabbath, Aerosmith, Kiss, Deep Purple, etc. Rock and roll at the time was no where near as heavy and dark as these bands. By the mid-70's the term heavy metal was used as much as hard rock. Fans, magazines, etc. all used the term to describe bands with that sound. The two terms were one in the same. It wasn't until nearly two decades later that younger fans started making a distinction between the two.

I don't try and pretend the definition of what heavy metal is hasn't changed over the years. I often refer to bands as hard rock, rather than heavy metal, when describing a band's sound on my site. However, it just annoying when people try and say that we were wrong back then for labeling certain bands as heavy metal because they don't fit some modern revised definition of the term. It's even more annoying when some 20-something metal fan starts arguing that bands like UFO, Saxon and Black Sabbath are "just hard rock" or "classic rock" and are not heavy metal.

You cannot re-write history. It is what it is. These were the bands that defined the genre back in the 70's.

ultmetal wrote:

70s rock-n-roll bands - 10cc, Peter Frampton, Kansas, Yes, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Genesis, David Bowie, CCR, The Guess Who, Foreigner, ZZ Top, Santana, Neil Young, Crosby,Stills&Nash, Greatful Dead, Supertramp, Robin Trower, Bruce Springsteen, Steve Miller Band, Glass Harp, Sweet Comfort Band, The Outlaws, Bob Segar, Styx, Traffic, King Crimson, Blondie, The Knack, Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, Heart, Marshall Tucker Band, Meatloaf, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Rare Earth, Nektar, Average White Band, T.Rex, Spirit, Be Bop Deluxe, Tod Rundgren, Bad Company, Rubicon...this could be a very long list.

70's hard rock/heavy metal bands - Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, UFO, Led Zeppelin, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Budgie, Kiss, Rush, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Thin Lizzy, Van Halen...

Then there were the bands that sort of rode the line like Foghat, BTO, Nazareth, Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush, Triumph, The Sweet, Molly Hatchet, Triumph, etc.

Then there are the bands that I would consider proto-metal; Blue Cheer, Hawkwind, Golden Earring, Cream, Jimi Hendrix, Alice Cooper, Elf, Vanilla Fudge, Steppenwolf, etc.

Wiikipedia wrote:

The terms "heavy metal" and "hard rock" have often been used interchangeably, particularly in discussing bands of the 1970s, a period when the terms were largely synonymous. For example, the 1983 Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll includes this passage: "known for its aggressive blues-based hard-rock style, Aerosmith was the top American heavy-metal band of the mid-Seventies."

BTW, if you can't tell, I love this debate.

Heeeere we go again (rolls eyes)

I got nothin' to add to the previous discussion, but in an attempt to get this thread back on topic I'll mention that I pulled out my Ramones TOO TOUGH TO DIE disc (remaster) today and in the centerfold of the booklet is a pic of the band holding "Boy Howdy!" beer cans....

gold. lead. and iron are heavy metal

copper, brass, zinc.......not so much