On the way to eat turkey and I said to myself... Savatage?

Criss was a great example of a player who jumped on no bandwagons. He did his own thing and developed his own style, which is why his writing and solos always sound so different from his contemporaries. I am another one of those who said at the time Savatage wasn't metal enough for me but over time as I have matured I appreciate this band a lot more.

I first heard Savatage when "The Dungeons Are Calling" came out, it was a blind purchase, just saw it on the new release wall at my local record shop. I was blown away immediately by the combination of totally killer music, a great sense of dramatics in the lyrics and vocal delivery and the wicked sense of tongue in cheek humor behind the whole thing (The Whip).

I temporarily stopped listening to them when Fight For The Rock came out. I didn't have a problem with them trying a more accesible sound, the fact that it was boring as hell did concern me however.

A little later, I heard the title track from The Hall Of The Mountain King on Metal Shop and was a fanatic again. It took awhile for me to listen to the entire album, I was so hooked on 24 Hours Ago that I kept playing it over and over.

Gutter Ballet is a sentimental favorite. One of my friends gave it to me because he couldn't stand the progressive leanings on the album. I loved it, because I had grown up listening to Progressive Rock and not many bands were doing that style at the time.

I went and saw Savatage on this tour, what an incredible show. I had the chance to meet Jon & Criss after the show and they were totally down to earth.

The last Savatage album I bought was Edge of Thorns, I was just unable to listen to them without Criss. I've always wondered if that would have been different if I hadn't met him?

I don't listen to them very much these days, but Savatage always brings back good memories for me.

I bought HALL OF THE MOUNTAIN KING back in 1991 i guess and liked it a lot, and just after that STREETS A ROCK OPERA on tape. I remember that on headbangers ball Vanesa Warwick talked about that CRISS OLIVA died, and they played the song EDGE OF THORNS.

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Gutter Ballet is a sentimental favorite. One of my friends gave it to me because he couldn't stand the progressive leanings on the album. I loved it, because I had grown up listening to Progressive Rock and not many bands were doing that style at the time.

This and the Jon had such an interesting style and sound. Love all things related to the 'Tage.

[quote="TheNazgul"]

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Love all things related to the 'Tage.

The 'Tage, that is great. I am going to use that for now on.

I'm really enjoying this thread. I'm jealous of the guys who got to see them live with Criss!! I also envy detuned for meeting him!

I've seen Savatage live 4 times. The first time was in Hamburg, Germany on the Magellan tour, and the show was absolutly amazing! Then I saw them at Wacken and Rock Hard Festival the same year, and I got to meet most of the band, and most noticeable, Jon himself! He asked me if he could have my bootleg picture disc of "Sirens", as he wanted to use it as evidence that Dr. Kildrums were making money selling Sava'-bootlegs!

The last time I saw them they were playing in Oslo on the Poets and Madmen tour, with Damon singing. It was another great show, but something was lacking, and Damon, while being a great singer, was not right for Savatage. This time I met most of the band, and chatted quite a while with Chris Caffery. We found that we share wedding days, and he signed the Magellan poster to my wife!

I've also seen Jon Olivas Pain live, and that was almost as magical as seeing Savatage.

The day I saw JOP, I also got to meet Jon. He signed my Hall of the Mountain King. Very friendly bloke.

kmorg wrote:

I'm really enjoying this thread. I'm jealous of the guys who got to see them live with Criss!! I also envy detuned for meeting him!

I've seen Savatage live 4 times. The first time was in Hamburg, Germany on the Magellan tour, and the show was absolutly amazing! Then I saw them at Wacken and Rock Hard Festival the same year, and I got to meet most of the band, and most noticeable, Jon himself! He asked me if he could have my bootleg picture disc of "Sirens", as he wanted to use it as evidence that Dr. Kildrums were making money selling Sava'-bootlegs!

The last time I saw them they were playing in Oslo on the Poets and Madmen tour, with Damon singing. It was another great show, but something was lacking, and Damon, while being a great singer, was not right for Savatage. This time I met most of the band, and chatted quite a while with Chris Caffery. We found that we share wedding days, and he signed the Magellan poster to my wife!

I've also seen Jon Olivas Pain live, and that was almost as magical as seeing Savatage.

I am glad you are enjoying this thread. I thing the 'Tage means so much to so many people, why not let them continue to bring us all together through our stories. I am jealous too that people got to meet Criss. I know the band now, minus Criss, but Jon is still very involved in how much he misses his brother. That man will always be missed... Though Caffery is a really good guitar player, Jon's brother Criss added something special to the band.

Either way, everyone added something nice to the new mix of this wonderful band in their own little way. I loved Damon's voice, and he was a great guy. But you are right, he wasn't the 'Tage at all. He could sing link no other, but Chris really made the right choice of taking on the main vocals again. Though I hear he is just taking on the second vocals in their new album creation.

I am just looking forward to seeing them tour again...

I love all the eras and don't think O'Neill ruined them, they were just ahead of the curve on symphonics in music.

I bought Sirens and Hall of the Mountain King on cassette back in the late 80's and liked them both, but preferred Sirens... Something about that one just appealed to me more.

My first exposure with SAVATAGE is through Dungeons are calling.

And what an album is that!!!

Funny thing is that after a young metalhead commited suicide in high school in 1992, his family blamed it on some savatage lyrics (i don't recall which), and the Church's war on metal started since.

TheNazgul wrote:

I love all the eras and don't think O'Neill ruined them, they were just ahead of the curve on symphonics in music.

The thing is that Paul took it too far. Hall, Gutter and Streets are all examples where the broadway metal worked well, and still kept the Savatage feel intact, imo. I also really love DWD, Magellan and Poets too, but here I think he went overboard, and it no longer feels like the same band. With JoP Jon has revived much of the true Sava-sound, and feel. Paul is also the reason why Savatage is no longer. As long as TSO is raking in the dough, Savatage will remain dormant.

Yeah but ultimatly the decision to put Savatage on the back burner was Jon's. Also I've never heard Jon say a bad word about Paul which leads me to believe that Jon gave him creative control. Of course, just like your opinion, we have no way of knowing. The only two people who know the real story is Jon and Paul and niether are telling anyone.

kmorg wrote:

TheNazgul wrote:

I love all the eras and don't think O'Neill ruined them, they were just ahead of the curve on symphonics in music.

The thing is that Paul took it too far. Hall, Gutter and Streets are all examples where the broadway metal worked well, and still kept the Savatage feel intact, imo. I also really love DWD, Magellan and Poets too, but here I think he went overboard, and it no longer feels like the same band. With JoP Jon has revived much of the true Sava-sound, and feel. Paul is also the reason why Savatage is no longer. As long as TSO is raking in the dough, Savatage will remain dormant.

in person and on record, you can find this interview I am sure, Jon actually explains the TSO and Savatage situation.

He has said, TSO is his job and allows him to work on music in his life and Savatage is his baby.

but Jon also needed a break for a little while to work on other things, as did the rest of the band. They are all doing something right now. But rest a sure they will be on stage again.

DallasBlack wrote:

Yeah but ultimatly the decision to put Savatage on the back burner was Jon's. Also I've never heard Jon say a bad word about Paul which leads me to believe that Jon gave him creative control. Of course, just like your opinion, we have no way of knowing. The only two people who know the real story is Jon and Paul and niether are telling anyone.

Telmorn Altayon wrote:

kmorg wrote:

TheNazgul wrote:

I love all the eras and don't think O'Neill ruined them, they were just ahead of the curve on symphonics in music.

The thing is that Paul took it too far. Hall, Gutter and Streets are all examples where the broadway metal worked well, and still kept the Savatage feel intact, imo. I also really love DWD, Magellan and Poets too, but here I think he went overboard, and it no longer feels like the same band. With JoP Jon has revived much of the true Sava-sound, and feel. Paul is also the reason why Savatage is no longer. As long as TSO is raking in the dough, Savatage will remain dormant.

in person and on record, you can find this interview I am sure, Jon actually explains the TSO and Savatage situation.

He has said, TSO is his job and allows him to work on music in his life and Savatage is his baby.

but Jon also needed a break for a little while to work on other things, as did the rest of the band. They are all doing something right now. But rest a sure they will be on stage again.

Jon will never admit it in public, but Paul owns the Savatage name..... And as long as TSO is making everyone involved as much money as it does, neither will complain. Not even Jon. If he had the rights to the name, he would have no need to name Jon Oliva's Pain as he does, it would have been called Savatage. But he doesn't have the final sale, and won't b*tch about it as long as he is making money. Believe me, it is totally frustrating to him that TSO took a Savatage song, and made it platinum. It's the same friggin' recording of "Christmas Eve (Sarajevo 12/24)" that was on Dead Winter Dead that broke TSO into the big time. But as Savatage it went nowhere.

So what Jon says in public is what needs to be heard for people to accept that Savatage is all but gone. The truth is that Jon is as sad about it as the fans are. THAT is why he is doin' JOP, the band that SHOULD have been Savatage anno 2010!

kmorg wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Yeah but ultimatly the decision to put Savatage on the back burner was Jon's. Also I've never heard Jon say a bad word about Paul which leads me to believe that Jon gave him creative control. Of course, just like your opinion, we have no way of knowing. The only two people who know the real story is Jon and Paul and niether are telling anyone.

Telmorn Altayon wrote:

kmorg wrote:

TheNazgul wrote:

I love all the eras and don't think O'Neill ruined them, they were just ahead of the curve on symphonics in music.

The thing is that Paul took it too far. Hall, Gutter and Streets are all examples where the broadway metal worked well, and still kept the Savatage feel intact, imo. I also really love DWD, Magellan and Poets too, but here I think he went overboard, and it no longer feels like the same band. With JoP Jon has revived much of the true Sava-sound, and feel. Paul is also the reason why Savatage is no longer. As long as TSO is raking in the dough, Savatage will remain dormant.

in person and on record, you can find this interview I am sure, Jon actually explains the TSO and Savatage situation.

He has said, TSO is his job and allows him to work on music in his life and Savatage is his baby.

but Jon also needed a break for a little while to work on other things, as did the rest of the band. They are all doing something right now. But rest a sure they will be on stage again.

Jon will never admit it in public, but Paul owns the Savatage name..... And as long as TSO is making everyone involved as much money as it does, neither will complain. Not even Jon. If he had the rights to the name, he would have no need to name Jon Oliva's Pain as he does, it would have been called Savatage. But he doesn't have the final sale, and won't b*tch about it as long as he is making money. Believe me, it is totally frustrating to him that TSO took a Savatage song, and made it platinum. It's the same friggin' recording of "Christmas Eve (Sarajevo 12/24)" that was on Dead Winter Dead that broke TSO into the big time. But as Savatage it went nowhere.

So what Jon says in public is what needs to be heard for people to accept that Savatage is all but gone. The truth is that Jon is as sad about it as the fans are. THAT is why he is doin' JOP, the band that SHOULD have been Savatage anno 2010!

I feel you there man. JOP is basically the same sound as The 'Tage anyways. I guess we can only hope... :^)

There were plans to do a proper 25 year anniversary celebration, with concerts and a box set. All that was released was this hasty compilation, with nothing new, save for the Japan live concert on DVD. This because TSO's plans for the first non-holiday show and tour was finally looking to happen. And what are they basing the next TSO effort on? "Gutter Ballet"!!!!??!!!

I'm sorry Kmorg but it's still an opinon. You don't know the full truth and neither do I, it's all speculation on our parts. Maybe one day the truth will be know and you will be proven right, but until then we really do not know the whole truth.

Either way, I don't mind too much. We get excellent stuff from JOP and they all make a great living off TSO. I'm sure Jon had no idea that TSO would break like it did and maybe gave away too much.

I discovered them around 2004 when by dad told me that Metallica wasn't the be-all end-all of metal, and name dropped them (alongside Maiden and Dio). He told me to listen to Dead Winter Dead and read the lyric book alongside, but I didn't appreciate the album at the time and put them off until I listened to The Hall of the Mountain King, which was immediate love. I still lean towards their pre-Gutter Ballet material overall, but aside from Poets & Madmen every album they have is very enjoyable.

I sorta rememberd Hall of the Mountian King back in the MTV days. After reading up on them on Ult's site a few years ago, and being a big TSO fan, I began to hunt down their music. Once at a flea market, I picked up something like 6 of their albums for a buck apiece.

Sadly, I don't think I've given their music enough time to really sink in and while I like them ok, I don't find them to be the be-all-end-all that others here find them to be. Perhaps if I had discovered them earlier on in my youth, they'd hold a special place. But as it stands for me, they are a fine heavy metal band. Nothing more, nothing less.

I've seen TSO live 3 or 4 times and play their music all the time around Christmas.

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but aside from Poets & Madmen every album they have is very enjoyable.

And you find that album to be awesome! Right?

I'm getting into JOP.

I recently bought Festival and its quite good.

Back in high school, I used to spend plenty of time downloading and watching videos out of the internet. In the same week I discovered 2 bands that became my top 2 fave bands until this day. The videos where, Savatage-hall of the Mountain King, and Metal Church-Badlands.
Then in the next week I went to the city and found a copy of Edge of trons.

Actually I haven't listen to music in almost a week, something very rare for me, but after reading this post. I couldn't resist to pull out EDGE OF TORNS

DallasBlack wrote:

I'm sorry Kmorg but it's still an opinon. You don't know the full truth and neither do I, it's all speculation on our parts. Maybe one day the truth will be know and you will be proven right, but until then we really do not know the whole truth.

Believe me, I am not speculating.