Metal?

The phrase "Heavy Metal" has been around through many variations since 1968's "Born to be wild". At that point, some say this moment defined the term "Heavy Metal". "Steppenwolf" was hard hitting with each bash of those damn pesky little heavy metal notes, and still they brought a mainstream understanding to "rocking out"

Of course the "Black Sabbath" came to us in the form of "Earth" changing our ideas of what metal really should be. Bringing stories, ideas and even heavy styles of jazz/blues to our ears. metal wasn't just about being loud, it had purpose now. With Tony, Bill, Geezer and Ozzy, "Heavy Metal" now had a leader. This leader gave us direction, which lead to many styles to pop out over a short period of time. But none of these bands had as much influence over "Heavy Metal" as Sabbath did at that time. The time of Ozzy Sabbath 1968-1972

Yeah, AC/DC was around. They are rock more so than Metal. Even Alice Cooper was making his way in. But he didn't do much for metal as he did for rock theater. I would say Judas Priest touched our lives a little, but they were rock in the beginning. Even though they had toured with Sabbath at one point, they were only a genre of metal. I wouldn't say they became a defining moment in an alteration of metal. I am talking more about what defined metal and changed it forward.

"Steppenworlf" gave us the phrase, "Black Sabbath" gave us direction, but what changed metal after that? One word, one name... DIO. Him and his wonderful little devil horned salutes to his adoring fans. He, in my opinion, changed our motion of "Heavy Metal" again. Now we had an imagine to go along with what "Heavy Metal" means. I don't think DIO made any amazing changes musical with the style of metal, but he brought us our world understand of what a metal head can say with one little hand.

Over a changing force of music, metal has stuck through all political, religious and social standards of what is good or bad music. Mainstream or not. My wonder, question to everyone on here is, what has been a defining "Heavy Metal" change since our beloved DIO? What can "Heavy Metal" an understanding. I am not talking about what drove it to the next level musical. We can all just list off bands. Iron Maiden, Metallica, Dream Theater, these bands changed the sound and direction into more complex genres. Bands like Metallica helped bring "Heavy Metal" to the mainstream more. But I am talking about things that define our image of "Heavy Metal".

I hope that the first three examples really help direct this conversation. I really am not talking about bands that came along and changed the style of metal. We can all pin point what bands have altered metal to another level. Hell even \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" gave us mainstream Rap Metal. There are a ton of genres for metal alone. Opeth is a great respect to a wonderful evolution of style, or even Pain of Salvation.

So there it is, my question. What has been a defining "Heavy Metal" change since our beloved DIO?

"Steppenwolf" - with the lyric, "Heavy Metal thunder" ... giving us a name/phrase
"Black Sabbath" - Coming on the scene ... gave us a leader showing us "Heavy Metal" wasn't just one thing... they also brought us head banging ;^)
"DIO" - gave us the devil horns, which no one can argue, they are very Metal... (side note to none metal heads that sing pop music... STOP USING THE METAL HORNS FOR THAT) sorry, I had to get that out of my system. Okay I am better.

Okay, your turns...

I disagree that early Priest and AC/DC were "just hard rock". You see, in the early 70's the term "heavy metal" was used interchangeably with "hard rock". Thin Lizzy were called Heavy Metal. Queen were called Heavy Metal. Ted Nugert was called Heavy Metal. I have videos of Thin Lizzy from the mid-70's with kids in denim vests headbanging in the front row. I have magazines that talk about these heavy metal bands. Kiss were the kings of heavy metal in '76.

Then as the late 70's rolled in, heavy metal was beginning to lose popularity. Disco became cool and some bands tried to fit in. Queen and Kiss both tried their hand at it. Punk was also gaining popularity, especially in Europe. Joe Perry of Aerosmith latched onto the punk sound. "Bright Light Fright" was written as a direct influence of punk. Phil Lynott also latched onto the punk sound becoming friends and even recording with the Sex Pistols.

But then as the 80's came rolling in, a whole New Wave of Heavy Metal bands were beginning to emerge. The NWOBHM movement took over where bands like Thin Lizzy, Led Zeppelin, UFO, Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, Rainbow, etc had left off. Up in Canada, a band called Lips, later Anvil, were resurrecting the sound. In the U.S., Twisted Sister were being called relics on the NY club circuit because they played heavy metal and refused to give into disco. Judas Priest reinvented their sound with British Steel.

No one band defined heavy metal. It was the collective whole that was heavy metal. Black Sabbath were a HUGE influence on the sound, but they were one of many IMO.

ultmetal wrote:

I disagree that early Priest and AC/DC were "just hard rock". You
see, in the early 70's the term "heavy metal" was used interchangeably
with "hard rock". Thin Lizzy were called Heavy Metal. Queen were called
Heavy Metal. Ted Nugert was called Heavy Metal. I have videos of Thin
Lizzy from the mid-70's with kids in denim vests headbanging in the
front row. I have magazines that talk about these heavy metal bands.
Kiss were the kings of heavy metal in '76.

Then as the late 70's
rolled in, heavy metal was beginning to lose popularity. Disco became
cool and some bands tried to fit in. Queen and Kiss both tried their
hand at it. Punk was also gaining popularity, especially in Europe. Joe
Perry of Aerosmith latched onto the punk sound. "Bright Light Fright"
was written as a direct influence of punk. Phil Lynott also latched onto
the punk sound becoming friends and even recording with the Sex
Pistols.

But then as the 80's came rolling in, a whole New Wave
of Heavy Metal bands were beginning to emerge. The NWOBHM movement took
over where bands like Thin Lizzy, Led Zeppelin, UFO, Uriah Heep, Deep
Purple, Rainbow, etc had left off. Up in Canada, a band called Lips,
later Anvil, were resurrecting the sound. In the U.S., Twisted Sister
were being called relics on the NY club circuit because they played
heavy metal and refused to give into disco. Judas Priest reinvented
their sound with British Steel.

No one band defined heavy metal.
It was the collective whole that was heavy metal. Black Sabbath were a
HUGE influence on the sound, but they were one of many IMO.

--------------------

I agree with you, no one band did define heavy metal, I was talking about moments that define Heavy Metal as a culture. Like when DIO Started doing the horns. The Horns are a defining Heavy Metal thing. When the phrase, Heavy Metal Thunder was spoken, that phrase was a defining Heavy Metal moment. It was what brought the coined slogan, Heavy Metal. And for Sabbath, they basically made it clear with their sound and attitude that Heavy Metal wasn't one particular sound, it was an expression. Through their content.

I know other bands that were rockish were really considered Heavy Metal. I grew up from the 70's and on, but I was trying to point out that my question/opinion wasn't about what made a band metal, or what band defined metal. Any band can define metal for a single person. Hell, my dad liked Allan Sherman who wrote "Five foot two, eyes of blue" and his parents thought that music was evil, thus maybe making it a small chance to him it was heavy metal.

Of course, this is all based on my opinion, and I can see your point of view on your subject, but I don't think I explained the question correctly enough, and for that I do apologies. Some times I have a hard time conveying my thoughts to express them. I was basically just trying to see what people's opinions on a "Heavy Metal" defining moment was. Not so much for the music, but the life of what "Heavy Metal" is and will be. hmm, like, The Pig on that motorcycle in that picture with the guy riding a motorcycle on the track. That brought on the phrase "hog" I am riding a hog. The rider, or the bike they were on had nothing to do with what defined the life-style of motorcycles as a culture. That pig in the photo did.

Please don't take what I said as an insult or me attacking you, I was very sincere. I love discussing things. have a great and safe holiday...

This is a good discussion but I really dont know what to add. Thats hard to think about changes outside of just the sound aspect.

Stender wrote:

This is a good discussion but I really dont know what to add. Thats hard to think about changes outside of just the sound aspect.

I agree, I understand what Telmorn was talkin' about. Not the beating-a-dead-horse discussion about who was or wasnt heavy metal in the 70's, but what changes or "paradigm shifts" in the rock culture happened to drive heavy metal closer to what is means today, or used to mean anyway.

The phrase heavy metal was also used in the book "Naked Lunch", if I am not mistaken, a whole 2 years before Steppenwolf used it to describe the sound of a motorcycle! So they were not talking about a musical genre.

I think heavy metal used to describe music was first used by a New York reporter in a Led Zeppelin concert review. But what year that was eludes me at the moment.

Ah, the age old metal debate. Who is metal? Who isn't metal? If there is any music topic more frustrating I don't know what it is. I have chosen not to dwell on it because no two people can really seem to agree on the subject so I believe it should be left up to the individual listener.

Im with Ult on this one

stepcousin wrote:

Stender wrote:

This is a good discussion but I really dont know what to add. Thats hard to think about changes outside of just the sound aspect.

I agree, I understand what Telmorn was talkin' about. Not the beating-a-dead-horse discussion about who was or wasnt heavy metal in the 70's, but what changes or "paradigm shifts" in the rock culture happened to drive heavy metal closer to what is means today, or used to mean anyway.

But that's the thing. It's nearly impossible to point to one thing, one band or even one event that created that paradigm shift. It was the collective whole IMO.

A band like Aerosmith was hugely influential to bands like Cinderella, Ratt, Guns N Roses, Motley Crue, Faster Pu$$ycat, etc. Many of the American bands of the ilk could be said to be directly influenced by Aerosmith, yet there were so many other influences too.

Ted Nugent was a huge influence on Anvil, especially early on. You can really hear his influence on those first three albums. Those albums were a big influence to bands like Slayer, Metallica, etc. Of course Anvil weren't the only influence, but they obviously had a big stake in the resurrection of metal in the early 80's.

Diamond Head really affected Metallica's sound early on. "Lightning to the Nations" may not be a hugely popular album, but you can really hear where Metallica's sound came from when listening to that album.

Maiden I think, might have been one of the biggest influences and causes of "paradigm shift" ever since their "Killers" album. Bands have been copying and borrowing from their sound ever since. If I were to list the top five most influential metal bands of all time, Maiden would certainly be in that list, along with Black Sabbath and Judas Priest. Of course, if you're gonna talk about Maiden's influence on metal, then you must talk about Thin Lizzy's influence on Maiden, and the whole NWOBHM scene as a whole.

As for the Dio horns thing, you might also remember that Gene Simmons was doing a similar hand gesture throughout the 70's. That's actually where I picked it up from early on. I was a KISS fan long before I became a Dio fan.

Again, I am not trying to start an argument over whose metal and whose not. I'm just making the claim that it's the collective whole that has turned metal into what it has become over the years.

kmorg wrote:

The phrase heavy metal was also used in the book "Naked Lunch", if I am not mistaken, a whole 2 years before Steppenwolf used it to describe the sound of a motorcycle! So they were not talking about a musical genre.

I think heavy metal used to describe music was first used by a New York reporter in a Led Zeppelin concert review. But what year that was eludes me at the moment.

That's how I always understood the term came to be as well. Though I think Steppenwolf's use of the term may have also spread the popularity of the term in the 70's.

I actually had a compilation album in the 70's called "heavy metal". It had Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, Golden Earring, Jimi Hendrix, and a bunch of other hard rock and rock bands. Wish I still had that record. Not all the bands were actually heavy metal, but it was one of those early compilations that showed that the term was being used. I think that compilation had the Grateful Dead, The Doors and Yes on it too, so obviously it wasn't exactly a well defined genre or compilation.

If nothing else these discussions are great history lessons. Will there be a test later?

DallasBlack wrote:

Ah, the age old metal debate. Who is metal? Who isn't metal? If there is any music topic more frustrating I don't know what it is. I have chosen not to dwell on it because no two people can really seem to agree on the subject so I believe it should be left up to the individual listener.

I agree I think, while we make light of those who borrower heavy metal-isms, that there is no clear cut definition and what we consider metal may not have always been and might not be in the future.

TheNazgul wrote:

If nothing else these discussions are great history lessons. Will there be a test later?

LOL, yes, there will be a test and each correct answer will be worth 3.4 points. If you don't get an A then the whole class is going to fail. :^)

Man, if the whole class's future relied on me getting an A on a test I would have charged everyone for me to do well. Man, the power muhahahahahaha javascript:emoticonp('')

OK, so now we have gone through the '70's, and the NWOBHM thing. Here's a band I say changed the genre as we know it:

Helloween. Not only did they do the speed metal thing early on, they also morphed into what we today know (falsely, imo) as power metal. They took speed metal, and added more melody, and BAM, you get Euro-metal.

kmorg wrote:

They took speed metal, and added more melody, and BAM, you get Euro-metal.

And it is now acceptable to sing about flowers and such in metal!

The term heavy metal was not used as a compliment to describe bands such as Led Zeppelin, Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, as a matter fact Rolling Stone magazine which was first major publication to use the term heavy metal heavily in their articles first used it to bash Humble Pie's 'Town and the Country' basically calling it 'heavy metal noise'

As for me, I agree for the most part with ULT, also my view goes with popular opinion that the template, at least for the early metal bands was established by Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and Black Sabbath.

Led Zeppelin gave its roots in the blues and also prerequisite to have a frontman and ringleader as opposed to just a vocalist.

Black Sabbath gave it much of its sound and image and Deep Purple gave it much of its class, and classical music influence.

But that is over simplifying its history, they where many important bands that helped metal come into existence such as Vanilla Fudge, Mountain, Budgie, and Uriah Heep to just name a few, and that does even include Alice Cooper which was a major influence on artists that followed him

If they called it the "New Wave of British Heavy Metal", what was the old wave

I am in the belief that any paradigm shift was the combining of two or more other aspects of heavy/hard music as an influence into making another flavor. Punk had a very big "influence" on what happened to metal's sound after it roared it's ugly head, so-to-speak. It is intersting when this discussion pops up,it always mentions music. The image of heavy metal is vital in discusson due to the fact that in certain era's, a mere photo could convey a band was metal.


Laterz

I think they're referring to bands that came out of England after Deep Purple and Black Sabbath.

ultmetal wrote:

As for the Dio horns thing, you might also remember that Gene Simmons was doing a similar hand gesture throughout the 70's. That's actually where I picked it up from early on. I was a KISS fan long before I became a Dio fan.

Ult, I agree with everything you said, but I'd like to point out the above quote specifically. I too picked up this gesture from Gene Simmons. Granted, he didn't use it as intentionally or consistently as Dio, but back in the day when Dio started to popularize the gesture, I thought he got it from Gene. Of course, I know better now.

TheNazgul wrote:

I think they're referring to bands that came out of England after Deep Purple and Black Sabbath.

and UFO ect ect ect. I was doing either sarcasm or the hypothetical question ? More in reference to folks who hold the belief that there were no "actual" metal bands in the 70's.

I was a bit to young at the time to know about bands and music, but when a bunch of those bands were trying out the disco theme and not being themselves, I cant imagine how frustrating that had to be to you guys putting up with that!

Thankfully when Grunge came, I dont recall to many "rock/heavy metal" bands attempting that sound, mostly because I think they simple became "embarrassing" to the new scene and didnt have a corner in the music biz for a time.

Sorry James, I should have caught that. Eh, i'm slow at times.

I've got a post in here somewhere (I ain't even gonna try and find it) where I went through a vintage 70's "Rock" encyclopedia and picked out the term heavy metal when it was used. As I recall it was almost always used by critics as a term of derision, for bands such as Grand Funk, Hawkwind, The Stooges (and as Manny says, Humble Pie). I think the implication -Rightly or wrongly- was that such bands were trying to use sheer volume to hide a lack of quality.
The interesting question is when the term Heavy Metal was used as:
A) a complimentary descriptive term by a writer (or)
B) a marketing tactic for a band

That is, when did it go from an insult to a compliment? I don't know the answer to either question.

SAHB I think the first time that term heavy metal was used in terms as a complimentary was in magazines such as Creem, Hit Parader, and Circus, but these magazines where looked down upon due to them being aimed at 'younger' and 'unsophisticated' fans, so again the genre was still looked down upon.

IMO I think the first magazine to treat metal as a distinct genre and treated its history and artists with respect was British magazine Sounds.

It's interesting to note that as late as 1974-75 the term was confusing enough that a well regarded glam rock band (which was definitly not metal-(not nearly as heavy as Sweet, for example) could call themselves "The Heavy Metal Kids" - a homage to the Wm. S. Burroughs reference- and get away with it. But by the late 70's their name had become misleading to potential fans and thus an albatross. That was a great band, and there were several reasons why they broke up (Gary wanted to act, etc.), but their name being no longer credible had to have a lot to do with their demise. In fact by their second album they had renamed themselves "The Kids" I suppose to avoid any more confusion.