Metallica getting into RnR Hall of Fame...

Shawn good point in regards to KISS's merch and marketing stragedy but during the Beatles heyday they also marketed themselves and released thousands of items, Beatle wigs, trading cards, toys, even had a cartoon series, and of course Elvis Presley had during his lifetime had been marketed and his image sold on everything from 7-11 Cups to poodle skirts etc and that only got more expansive after his death in 1977 and they both made it into the R n R Hall of Fame.

the RnR hall of fame is a joke - bands that SHOULD be there are not and bands/artists that SHOULD NOT be there are there.....

manny wrote:

Shawn good point in regards to KISS's merch and marketing stragedy but during the Beatles heyday they also marketed themselves and released thousands of items, Beatle wigs, trading cards, toys, even had a cartoon series, and of course Elvis Presley had during his lifetime had been marketed and his image sold on everything from 7-11 Cups to poodle skirts etc and that only got more expansive after his death in 1977 and they both made it into the R n R Hall of Fame.

The difference is this...Paul McCartney wasn't spending most of his time trying to figure out what he could put a picture of his face on to make more money. He may have signed off on it, but it wasn't in the forefront of his mind...whereas it's all Gene Simmons thinks about and he's very vocal about it.

Elvis? Don't get me started...the original Backstreet Boy...and I guarantee all his marketing was his managers...I don't think he gave a damn.

mc666 wrote:

why is everyone so wrapped up in this crap? some of you guys crack me up. "oh the Hall Of Fame is a sham. how come my fave bands aren't there?"

if it's a sham/joke, why would you want them to honor any band you particularly care about? it's pop culture... is it really worth caring this much about? not to me.

The Rock n Roll Hall of Fame claim that it goes beyond pop culture but about music and artist who have transended their era and those that defined their era by their work, if that is a true statement than many of bands mentioned would have been inducted. In the beginning they seem to have done a good job and did their homework, as time has gone on, I just have a feeling that their music snobbery and their elitist attitude toward bands that made it despite their critical bashing and have made an impact without their support have influenced them on who should be in their Hall. KISS was hated by critics back in the 70's and I am sure it is case of sour grapes that KISS have continued to not only have success but have had such a major impact.

That is my point of view for what's worth, MC666, if they are going to say it goes beyond pop cultural than they should stand by statement.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn good point in regards to KISS's merch and marketing stragedy but during the Beatles heyday they also marketed themselves and released thousands of items, Beatle wigs, trading cards, toys, even had a cartoon series, and of course Elvis Presley had during his lifetime had been marketed and his image sold on everything from 7-11 Cups to poodle skirts etc and that only got more expansive after his death in 1977 and they both made it into the R n R Hall of Fame.

The difference is this...Paul McCartney wasn't spending most of his time trying to figure out what he could put a picture of his face on to make more money. He may have signed off on it, but it wasn't in the forefront of his mind...whereas it's all Gene Simmons thinks about and he's very vocal about it.

Elvis? Don't get me started...the original Backstreet Boy...and I guarantee all his marketing was his managers...I don't think he gave a damn.

True in regards to Paul McCartney not spending that much time thinking about it and also true that Elvis could careless about marketing his image he left that up to Col. Parker.

Wrong on Elvis being the original backstreet boy, Elvis made it because of combination of talent, timing, some marketing and alot of luck, he was able to sustain his success because he was talented, if he was the original Backstreet Boy than his albums would be filled in the same place that Back Street Boys are filed, the cut out bin.

Quote :

Elvis made it because of combination of talent, timing, some marketing and alot of luck, he was able to sustain his success because he was talented, if he was the original Backstreet Boy than his albums would be filled in the same place that Back Street Boys are filed, the cut out bin.

Elvis could sing. Elvis was good looking. Elvis wrote not a single note of music in his life. In that respect, he was "the original Backstreet Boy", IMO. He spent his entire career singing someone else's music and starring in musicals.

He was a gifted performer and a monster entertainer...but I hesitate to call him an "artist". Artists create...he didn't create anything. Had he attempted to write songs and NOT have the Col. Parker hype machine behind him, he'd have had a fraction of the impact.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

The RnRHoF is not a talent competition. It bases its inductions on sales & cultural/musical impact. RUN-DMC, MADONNA and other non-Rock artists in the HoF had tremendous cultural/musical impact. They influenced an entire generation of music and still do. That's the reason METALLICA is getting in.

But I would argue that KISS carries the same weight. The cultural & musical impact of KISS is immeasurable. Everyone knows who KISS is. Almost every Rock band in the last 30 years will mention KISS as some sort of influence. It's ludicrous that they are not already in. Same with ALICE COOPER and DEEP PURPLE. Hell, it took years after becoming eligible (and after being inducted into the British HoF) for BLACK SABBATH to get in...what kind of travesty is that??

Another reason Kiss belongs is because they are a marketing juggernaut. Kiss merchandise outweights any other band merchandise. T-Shirts, lunch boxes, action figures, perfume, pants, wallets, jewlery, wine, games, shoes, skateboards, glassware, other clothing, home decor, even a coffin. Not even Hanna Montana (which is everywhere) can touch the volume of Kiss merchandise.

Ironically, it's the merch/marketing that kinda hurts them, IMO, as far as the HoF goes. That makes them seem like a novelty, not musicians. None of the other inductees are "marketing juggernauts" ala Hanna Montana.

But it does say something about how loyal of a fan base they have created. A bands fan base has to be pretty strong to peddle the merchandise that they do. I mean come on, how many people love a band enough to be buried in a coffin w/ the band's logo.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

Elvis made it because of combination of talent, timing, some marketing and alot of luck, he was able to sustain his success because he was talented, if he was the original Backstreet Boy than his albums would be filled in the same place that Back Street Boys are filed, the cut out bin.

Elvis could sing. Elvis was good looking. Elvis wrote not a single note of music in his life. In that respect, he was "the original Backstreet Boy", IMO. He spent his entire career singing someone else's music and starring in musicals.

He was a gifted performer and a monster entertainer...but I hesitate to call him an "artist". Artists create...he didn't create anything. Had he attempted to write songs and NOT have the Col. Parker hype machine behind him, he'd have had a fraction of the impact.

Frank Sinatra did not write any of his own music either and I would still consider him an artist. I am sure that in the beginning Col. Parker was very good for Elvis and you are correct alot of his early success is due to Col. Parker's hype machine. But you fast forward a couple years he has Elvis trapped into a series of endless crappy movies and some of the music he is recording is frankly very forgetable, IMO if he dumped Col. Parker in the 60's, his cultural impact may have not have been as huge, but his creditability as an artist would not have been called into question. That guy when he was on had a great ear for music and songs that fit him as both an artist and his image.

DallasBlack wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

The RnRHoF is not a talent competition. It bases its inductions on sales & cultural/musical impact. RUN-DMC, MADONNA and other non-Rock artists in the HoF had tremendous cultural/musical impact. They influenced an entire generation of music and still do. That's the reason METALLICA is getting in.

But I would argue that KISS carries the same weight. The cultural & musical impact of KISS is immeasurable. Everyone knows who KISS is. Almost every Rock band in the last 30 years will mention KISS as some sort of influence. It's ludicrous that they are not already in. Same with ALICE COOPER and DEEP PURPLE. Hell, it took years after becoming eligible (and after being inducted into the British HoF) for BLACK SABBATH to get in...what kind of travesty is that??

Another reason Kiss belongs is because they are a marketing juggernaut. Kiss merchandise outweights any other band merchandise. T-Shirts, lunch boxes, action figures, perfume, pants, wallets, jewlery, wine, games, shoes, skateboards, glassware, other clothing, home decor, even a coffin. Not even Hanna Montana (which is everywhere) can touch the volume of Kiss merchandise.

Ironically, it's the merch/marketing that kinda hurts them, IMO, as far as the HoF goes. That makes them seem like a novelty, not musicians. None of the other inductees are "marketing juggernauts" ala Hanna Montana.

But it does say something about how loyal of a fan base they have created. A bands fan base has to be pretty strong to peddle the merchandise that they do. I mean come on, how many people love a band enough to be buried in a coffin w/ the band's logo.

Apparently not very many...that idea kinda bombed. I think they sold under a few dozen of them.

manny wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

Elvis made it because of combination of talent, timing, some marketing and alot of luck, he was able to sustain his success because he was talented, if he was the original Backstreet Boy than his albums would be filled in the same place that Back Street Boys are filed, the cut out bin.

Elvis could sing. Elvis was good looking. Elvis wrote not a single note of music in his life. In that respect, he was "the original Backstreet Boy", IMO. He spent his entire career singing someone else's music and starring in musicals.

He was a gifted performer and a monster entertainer...but I hesitate to call him an "artist". Artists create...he didn't create anything. Had he attempted to write songs and NOT have the Col. Parker hype machine behind him, he'd have had a fraction of the impact.

Frank Sinatra did not write any of his own music either and I would still consider him an artist. I am sure that in the beginning Col. Parker was very good for Elvis and you are correct alot of his early success is due to Col. Parker's hype machine. But you fast forward a couple years he has Elvis trapped into a series of endless crappy movies and some of the music he is recording is frankly very forgetable, IMO if he dumped Col. Parker in the 60's, his cultural impact may have not have been as huge, but his creditability as an artist would not have been called into question. That guy when he was on had a great ear for music and songs that fit him as both an artist and his image.

Again, I think he's a great performer/entertainer/singer...we just disagree on the "artist" thing...same w/ Sinatra. Talent is not the issue...they both have it...I'm just an art-snob that way.

Do you remember when Gene Simmons was out pimping the KISS coffins, he said they would also make it excellent coolers and had a picture of Gene Simmons standing next to one of his KISS coffins filled with ice, beer and soft drinks, he is beyond shameless.

Indeed...and he loves every minute of it. Shame is for wussies...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Indeed...and he loves every minute of it. Shame is for wussies...

You notice it always Gene Simmons who is out promoting the various KISS products unless it is a CD or DVD than Paul Stanley shows up. Apparently Paul Stanley is the wussier of the two, of course Paul Stanley is busy selling his art, which has made sold for millions of dollars. Incredible.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Indeed...and he loves every minute of it. Shame is for wussies...

I believe the saying is, "he cries all the way to the bank."

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

The RnRHoF is not a talent competition. It bases its inductions on sales & cultural/musical impact. RUN-DMC, MADONNA and other non-Rock artists in the HoF had tremendous cultural/musical impact. They influenced an entire generation of music and still do. That's the reason METALLICA is getting in.

But I would argue that KISS carries the same weight. The cultural & musical impact of KISS is immeasurable. Everyone knows who KISS is. Almost every Rock band in the last 30 years will mention KISS as some sort of influence. It's ludicrous that they are not already in. Same with ALICE COOPER and DEEP PURPLE. Hell, it took years after becoming eligible (and after being inducted into the British HoF) for BLACK SABBATH to get in...what kind of travesty is that??

Another reason Kiss belongs is because they are a marketing juggernaut. Kiss merchandise outweights any other band merchandise. T-Shirts, lunch boxes, action figures, perfume, pants, wallets, jewlery, wine, games, shoes, skateboards, glassware, other clothing, home decor, even a coffin. Not even Hanna Montana (which is everywhere) can touch the volume of Kiss merchandise.

Ironically, it's the merch/marketing that kinda hurts them, IMO, as far as the HoF goes. That makes them seem like a novelty, not musicians. None of the other inductees are "marketing juggernauts" ala Hanna Montana.

I was going to state the same thing yesterday, but I didn't want to offend any die hard KISS fans. I think this is the biggest thing hurting the band as well. I don't think because of this it will keep the band out of the H.O.F., but they'll make the band sweat it out for a while.

I'm not gonna give my 2 cents about who should or should be in. It's pointless. But I am gonna throw this question out there for discussion and figured I'd just tag it in here without starting yet another Metallica thread. Here we go...

Mostly everyone inducted into the Hall gets either someone they've influenced or someone they were influenced by to do the honors. Last I heard, noone has been selected for Metallica yet.

Who do you think should induct Metallica into the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame and why?

Since we obviously have no impact on the decision, it can be anyone, regardless if they would or could actually do it.

I think it would be cool to see Tony Iommi do the honors, seeing how he's the Father of Heavy Metal. Or Lemmy, just because he's Lemmy.

Dave Mustaine should do it. That would be some damn good TV.


It would never happen, but King Diamond or Lemmy should do it.

Lemmy should do it, but of course since it airs on VH1 it will probably be Eddie Trunk who will remind the audience that he indeed is good friends with Ace Frehley.

manny wrote:

Lemmy should do it, but of course since it airs on VH1 it will probably be Eddie Trunk who will remind the audience that he indeed is good friends with Ace Frehley.

... and then Jim Florentine and Don Jamieson will come out onstage and invite the Metallica guys to a rousing round of "Stump the Trunk"

Fat Freddy wrote:

manny wrote:

Lemmy should do it, but of course since it airs on VH1 it will probably be Eddie Trunk who will remind the audience that he indeed is good friends with Ace Frehley.

... and then Jim Florentine and Don Jamieson will come out onstage and invite the Metallica guys to a rousing round of "Stump the Trunk"

...cue the VH1 interns dressed as metal fans reading pre-written questions which Eddie Trunk never gets right. (Honestly, who doesn't know about the orchestra in "Stargazer??)

Quote :

Dave Mustaine should do it. That would be some damn good TV.

Man, that would be AWESOME! I'd pay to see that! That'd be like Pete Best inducting The Beatles.

SpectreFate wrote:

...cue the VH1 interns

Sometimes I think VH1 is run entirely by interns.

Iommi or Lemmy...Eddie Trunk it a doofus. Any one of us here could "stump the trunk" inside of one question...Metal Expert my ass...LOL!

I have a question that would stump the trunk:

Who Played Guitar in Van Halen?

manny wrote:

I have a question that would stump the trunk:

Who Played Guitar in Van Halen?

Eddie something......

What's his last name?