Having some difficulty with Dark Angel

I recently purchase Time Does Not Heal since I've never once heard Dark Angel before. Now, thrash is my favorite metal genre and I understand these guys are gods amongst men with the five billion riffs on this album or what have you. But this one is a tough nut, and I'm here to see if I'm the only one.

It's not that I don't like the album. It has solid production, outstanding musicianship, and is fast and brutal, just the way I like it. However, my God is it dense. I thought Kreator was practically atonal; this makes grindcore seem accessible as Chicago's greatest hits. Just riff after riff after riff, change after change after change, a plethora of time signatures, all with epic length. This is probably the most technical thrash I've ever heard. While I'm amazed, at the same time it takes a decent amount of focus to stay with the music, and though I've heard the album 5 or 6 times, I don't remember any of it save for some melodies. Of course, thrash can be entirely tough to digest at times--I had mentioned Kreator, and there's also Exodus' Pleasures of the Flesh, but even then they caught on upon the third listen or so. With Dark Angel, it's a different beast.

Not that I'd call it a complaint even, since they're a monster group, but for me it takes more effort than usual. And if I really dedicate myself, I get exhausted by track 5. It's just a massive assault of chaos. So...anyone else here have the same issue?

If it's that hard to digest I think you're trying to force yourself to like it. Sometimes things that we want to love, just aren't that good....

I just bought Time Does Not Heal about a month ago. I already had Live Scars - but like you it took me forever to get the Dark Angel songs to be familiar. Then I tried out TDNH - at first it took about a dozen listens to really get into it, but trust me it is worth it once you "get them". One of the more intense thrash groups - most definitely.

I know exactly one Dark Angel tune and that's Welcome To The Slaughterhouse from Metal Massacre VI and I think it's a pretty good song. But that's about all I can say about them. One of these days, I'll get around to getting some of their releases, if I can find them.

MetalRob331 wrote:

If it's that hard to digest I think you're trying to force yourself to like it.  Sometimes things that we want to love, just aren't that good....

Absolutely not. Hundreds of bands I've listened to in my life have been hard to digest; transcendence can take time in any medium. The same applies with movies. No medium has to lean on accessibility in order to be good or well-crafted. The same is true in motion pictures, photography, sculpture, etc. In fact, in my experience, the inaccessible is much more rewarding than something that catches on instantly. Yes and Neil Young are two prime examples of this.

And I'm not forcing myself to like it because I do like it, as stated. I'm just having to apply myself more and focus on individual sections of song to fully realize the content. As casual, background music it's fine.

Album is phenomenal. They were true pioneers pushing the boundaries with the amount of riffs on that album.

But this track alone should convince you they know how to write punishing riffs while keeping it simple.


Definitely wait for the album to sink in because once it does you will be very happy.

Never been a big DA fan. Dunno why, I just never got into em.
I saw them live years ago opening for Overkill and though my friends were big DA fans and they were going crazy for em, I was like "(shrugs)"... so they've never really "clicked" for me.

Gene Hoglan have never played better than this album.

corplhicks wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

If it's that hard to digest I think you're trying to force yourself to like it.  Sometimes things that we want to love, just aren't that good....

Absolutely not. Hundreds of bands I've listened to in my life have been hard to digest; transcendence can take time in any medium. The same applies with movies. No medium has to lean on accessibility in order to be good or well-crafted. The same is true in motion pictures, photography, sculpture, etc. In fact, in my experience, the inaccessible is much more rewarding than something that catches on instantly. Yes and Neil Young are two prime examples of this.

And I'm not forcing myself to like it because I do like it, as stated. I'm just having to apply myself more and focus on individual sections of song to fully realize the content. As casual, background music it's fine.

I 100% disagree If I have to listen to something over and over again to appreciate it, I will never appreciate it. I don't listen to music to appreciate it, I listen to it bcuz it moves me in some way. Music is a direct passage to my emotions. Listening to something that doesn't hit me directly makes no sense to me..

That being said DA are great at what they do..

I have only ever liked the demos, and first album "We Have Arrived" as it's great Slayer-ish "Show No Mercy" type thrash metal.

All their other albums are unmemorable. Yes, the others were complex, brutal, faster than lightning thrash metal, but none of it was memorable to me.

I've found in my lifetime that albums that "hit me immediately" get old very quickly. Whereas albums that require time to fully appreciate generally end up being the most rewarding and the ones I will listen to for decades.

Great art sometimes requires effort, but that makes it all the more rewarding in the long run.

MetalRob331 wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

If it's that hard to digest I think you're trying to force yourself to like it.  Sometimes things that we want to love, just aren't that good....

Absolutely not. Hundreds of bands I've listened to in my life have been hard to digest; transcendence can take time in any medium. The same applies with movies. No medium has to lean on accessibility in order to be good or well-crafted. The same is true in motion pictures, photography, sculpture, etc. In fact, in my experience, the inaccessible is much more rewarding than something that catches on instantly. Yes and Neil Young are two prime examples of this.

And I'm not forcing myself to like it because I do like it, as stated. I'm just having to apply myself more and focus on individual sections of song to fully realize the content. As casual, background music it's fine.

I 100% disagree  If I have to listen to something over and over again to appreciate it, I will never appreciate it.  I don't listen to music to appreciate it, I listen to it bcuz it moves me in some way.  Music is a direct passage to my emotions.  Listening to something that doesn't hit me directly makes no sense to me..  

That being said DA are great at what they do..

The key word there is "appreciate." To hear a song and instantly be turned off by it or not engage because it immediately sounds awful makes sense and is the reason most of today's pop music is abhorred by myself. So yeah, listening to something over and over again to gain "appreciation" for it is inane. But to take some time with something written on a more complex level than sheer catch because you have that feeling it's worth the patience...that's what I'm talking about, delayed gratification. Art that is created on a more complex level tend to be more cerebral and therefore have a greater impact in the long run because of the slow burn that's grazing the brain. It becomes unforgettable. In this case, I appreciated DA's music right from the first track. Trying to fully realize it is the next step. It's an acquired taste, like a good beer. This is how a lot of prog works as well. The end result is complete satisfaction and, like I said, transcendence. Patience is a virtue.

There are people who embrace complexion in art; at times they are labeled snobs or pretentious. Then there are people who embrace simplicity or immediate satisfaction; at time they are labeled lazy or narrow-minded. F*ck labels; the greatest benefit is for everyone to embrace both sides of the same coin, because why miss out on what could be great or better?

S.D. wrote:

I've found in my lifetime that albums that "hit me immediately" get old very quickly.  Whereas albums that require time to fully appreciate generally end up being the most rewarding and the ones I will listen to for decades.  

Great art sometimes requires effort, but that makes it all the more rewarding in the long run.

I agree with you 100%, but when something never clicks (which is what I was going for) it should never be forced to wanna like it.

MetalRob331 wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I've found in my lifetime that albums that "hit me immediately" get old very quickly.  Whereas albums that require time to fully appreciate generally end up being the most rewarding and the ones I will listen to for decades.  

Great art sometimes requires effort, but that makes it all the more rewarding in the long run.

I agree with you 100%, but when something never clicks (which is what I was going for) it should never be forced to wanna like it.  

That makes more sense, and I feel the same way although I'll still give certain things a second chance regardless. I also have pushed myself with some bands and it's rarely worked out, such as with Talking Heads. Hated them at first, but pushed on to see what the big deal was; now I can't get enough of Byrne.

I love the whole album from start to finish.

Not a fan of Ron's vocals. Never have been but he is a great frontman! These guys are all top notch musicians!!! However, you should get Darkness Descends because THAT album punishes!!!

Lurideath wrote:

Not a fan of Ron's vocals. Never have been but he is a great frontman! These guys are all top notch musicians!!! However, you should get Darkness Descends because THAT album punishes!!!

Time for a poll, I think. Curious to know which album everyone prefers. As for Ron's vox, they do get a bit monotonous as he tends to stick with two notes in his midrange for most of the album. But that's the only negative thing I can say about the album so far. I've seen some live footage and the dude is a beast!

Lurideath wrote:

Not a fan of Ron's vocals. Never have been but he is a great frontman! These guys are all top notch musicians!!! However, you should get Darkness Descends because THAT album punishes!!!

+1 saves me writing it  

TDNH is a very complex album.I always think of this and Deaths Sound of Perserverance as very similar.Both are great albums but hard to digest very quickly.

I say check out Leave Scars. That's my favorite by DA, and the only one that really clicked with me. The other albums aren't bad but there was nothing that kept bringing me back to them. I'd listen to them, because I had them, but Leave Scars is the only one I ever really get in the mood to hear.

This album is a masterpiece!

I didn't think so when I first go it though. It definitely takes a while to appreciate all its intricacies.

Some of the tracks towards the end aren't so hot, I will admit though.

It has some of the best lyrics in thrash. As tribunalrecords said, it has also features Hoglan's finest drum performance.

I don't think there are many folks who could play these songs all the way through. It's not just the amount of riffs and the technical aspect of it though, the overall riff quality is very high.

This and Arch-era FATES WARNING had to really grow on me and became some of my favorite music of all-time.

This band was more influential than people realize I think.

It's the only Dark Angel I own, but I'd have to pull Time Does Not Heal from the shelves and give it a fresh spin. I don't recall it being anything that special. It's decent, but I guess I'm in the "never clicked with me" category. I had Live Scars at one time too, but ditched it.

I'm with ToB, I think the album is pure genius. On first listen it was a lot to take it, but the more I listened the more it pulled me in. Act Of Contrition gets my blood pumping every time I hear it.

Time Does Not Heal has never clicked with me either. Probably because I like Doty's vocals on DD. way better. I remember not caring for the riffs. I'll give it another try sometime.

Leave Scars is my favorite album because it's (to me) the perfect in between of Darkness Descends' all-out speed and the more complex Time Does Not Heal. Doesn't get any better than Promise of Agony and the title track as far as I'm concerned

Darkness Descends has probably the most immediate appeal of all the Dark Angel albums, but I rarely find myself going back to it like the ones that follow