WWF/WWE/ECW/WCW

Witchfinder wrote:

Umm, you do understand that Nash was joking with this, right?

I am aware and thats why Its funny, Nash has good mic skills and honestly I think he was better with Scott Hall. The Outsiders were a great tag team much like the Tag Team version of DX you got Nash and Hall who are genuinely friends (like HHH and HBK) and that dynamic shows , Outside of that Nash is like it was said one dimensional that last stint in the WWE I was hoping they were gonna have him do something with Triple H not feuding but alas.........

Addy wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Umm, you do understand that Nash was joking with this, right?

I am aware and thats why Its funny, Nash has good mic skills and honestly I think he was better with Scott Hall. The Outsiders were a great tag team much like the Tag Team version of DX you got Nash and Hall who are genuinely friends (like HHH and HBK) and that dynamic shows , Outside of that Nash is like it was said one dimensional that last stint in the WWE I was hoping they were gonna have him do something with Triple H not feuding but alas.........

I find Nash and Hall hilarious. Nash especially. He's not the greatest technical wrestler but he's great on the mike.

Agreed

DallasBlack wrote:

I still dissagree with you on Undertaker. Yes, he is no technical wizard. However, for a guy his size and no wrestling background he is pretty damn good. Better than Diesel, better than Kane, better than Big Show. Also, to say he is bad is to disregard what his opponents have said about him. Shawn, HHH, Angle, Orton, and others have had nothing but positive things to say about working with him.

The thing is you only heard oppinions from them in WWE Media, the WWE Biography Books, the DVDs, of course you won't hear a bad word on those, everybody loves Vince and the other WWE Guys, they are the most talented (even though they're not) and everything is perfect (even though it isn't). You never hear a negative word - the only exception is that infamous Ultimate Warrior DVD were everyone takes a crap on the Warrior and Vince tries so hard to disregard his legacy.
Of course there not much about the Undertaker to criticise if you're an opponent of him: He's popular, so if you're Giant Gonzalez a midcarder suddenly finding yourself at Wrestlemania because of the Taker, you have only positive things to say. He also is a very safe worker and his matches are so slow-paced it's like a walk in the park.
And while he does a good show (though it got very stale in the past few years), i just say that he isn't a good wrestler, has barely any skills and has delivered maybe a handful of watchable matches.
We have different oppinions, i don't see anything wrong with it, it would be pretty boring if everybody agrees on the same things

DallasBlack wrote:

If he was really that bad then big names like them would refuse to work with him. Think the Nasty Boys. They were so bad and careless in the ring, many tag teams refused to work with them and you never hear heard any postive things from people who worked with them.

Nobody refuses to work with anyone as long as there's money to be made.
A good example for this is Jose Gonzalez aka Invader #1, he already had an image of a cutthroat booker, a stiff worker who no-sells and being basically an sfincter but he was the big star in Puerto Rico's WWC. Nobody liked him and after he killed legendary hardcore wrestler Bruiser Brody (and evaded a jail sentence after bribing the court) he was even more despised but still a lot of american wrestlers went to Puerto Rico and worked with him, because there was a lot of money to be made.
Same with Superfly Jimmy Snuka, suspected to have killed his girlfriend in 1984 (which lead to Vince McMahons famous quote "Look, I'm in the garbage business," the promoter said. "If you think I'm going to be hurt by the revelation that one of my wrestlers is really a violent individual, you're mistaken.") but other wrestlers still worked with him, he was even the first ECW World Champion.

I also doubt that anybody ever refused to work with the Nasty Boys, they were extremely stiff, but also popular and there's a reason they are one of the most successful North American Tag-Teams, basically fourth place behind the Road Warriors/Legion of Doom, Steiner Brothers. Dudley Boyz/Team 3D in terms of Titles in different big wrestling promotions (counting AWA, ECW, WCW, WWF/E and NWA as big promotions)

DallasBlack wrote:

For the record, I enjoy technical wrestling too, much more than big guys punching, kicking, and power moves. While I'm a big Undertaker fan, the wrestlers I admire most are Jericho, Angle, CM Punk, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Eddie Guererro, Ziggler, Daniels, Benoit (my favorite wrestler until his horrible deed), and the like. Big Show, Kane, and Taker are the only big guys I enjoy watching-and that is dependent on their opponents.

That's a really good list of technical Wrestlers (though i never cared for Guerrero and always disliked Bret Hart, even more so after reading his Biography)
As for the big guys: You should dig up some stuff from Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow (80's prefered), some 70's/early 80's Andre the Giant and look a bit more into John Tenta/Earthquake who was a extremely good big guy

Another good big guy is Mark Henry (mainly his more recent stuff). I get kind of a vader vibe from his stuff, especially his monster heel run from last year. Another one is Kharma/Awesome Kong (the only female wrestler i care about at the moment, unfortunately she wont be back for a while as she just gave birth).

ShadowAngel wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

I still dissagree with you on Undertaker. Yes, he is no technical wizard. However, for a guy his size and no wrestling background he is pretty damn good. Better than Diesel, better than Kane, better than Big Show. Also, to say he is bad is to disregard what his opponents have said about him. Shawn, HHH, Angle, Orton, and others have had nothing but positive things to say about working with him.

The thing is you only heard oppinions from them in WWE Media, the WWE Biography Books, the DVDs, of course you won't hear a bad word on those, everybody loves Vince and the other WWE Guys, they are the most talented (even though they're not) and everything is perfect (even though it isn't). You never hear a negative word - the only exception is that infamous Ultimate Warrior DVD were everyone takes a crap on the Warrior and Vince tries so hard to disregard his legacy.
Of course there not much about the Undertaker to criticise if you're an opponent of him: He's popular, so if you're Giant Gonzalez a midcarder suddenly finding yourself at Wrestlemania because of the Taker, you have only positive things to say. He also is a very safe worker and his matches are so slow-paced it's like a walk in the park.
And while he does a good show (though it got very stale in the past few years), i just say that he isn't a good wrestler, has barely any skills and has delivered maybe a handful of watchable matches.
We have different oppinions, i don't see anything wrong with it, it would be pretty boring if everybody agrees on the same things

Actually, I'm not talking about just WWE media. I read a lot of interviews from various wrestling sources and websites. His matches are not THAT slow paced as they change gears several times throughout his matches, however his physical alements limit how fast they can be. This is another reason why I praise his work, despite the wear and tear on his body, he still manages to make it through long matches with opponents who are in better health. One thing that I think makes him good is the fact that he can keep up with those healthier opponents and also the way he sells their moves (he is definitly one of the best sellers in wrestling). So as a wrestler, he barely has any skills but that has never been needed to be a good pro wrestler. But as you said, we see things differently, your Undertaker is my Hogan and vice versa.

Also, I'm aware of Bam Bam (whom I watched in my early wrestling years on a VHS of WM4) and Vader (whom I watched back when he wore the Elephant mask-that blew steam-in WCW). Also was a fan of John Tenta/Earthquake (of course not liking Hogan, that should come as no suprise). My favorite of the really big guys though was Big Boss Man who, while limited in skills, moved like a man half his size (especially when he lost that weight after his Twin Towers days) and had an intensity in his matches that made them memorable-at least for me.

I would say the Undertaker was a great wrestler in 1997, he had some good physical prowess but NOW I think physically he is barely holding it together from the things ive read, my issue is they hype him up to be some Demigod or something.

The only WWE Wrestler who gets alot of hype who IMO deserves it (other than HHH and HBK lol) is The Rock. The dude is unequalled on the Mic. If I were getting Wrestlemania I would love to see his match.

Addy wrote:

I would say the Undertaker was a great wrestler in 1997, he had some good physical prowess but NOW I think physically he is barely holding it together from the things ive read, my issue is they hype him up to be some Demigod or something.

The only WWE Wrestler who gets alot of hype who IMO deserves it (other than HHH and HBK lol) is The Rock. The dude is unequalled on the Mic. If I were getting Wrestlemania I would love to see his match.

Rock is one of the best on the mic (or was, on Monday Cena made Rock look kinda weak-though he did win the popularity contest) but I wouldn't say unequalled but of course I was never a huge Rock fan (I was a Steve Austin guy). Rock is one of the best but Jericho, Shawn Michaels, HHH, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Roddy Piper, Austin, and a few others could compete with Rock on the mic.

Im not a big fan of the Rock either but enough of a fan reconize lol I remember one time during the last incarnation of the NWO The Rock and Nash were going back and forth and it was great!!!

Jericho is also good on the mic and because of that makes him a believeable heel. IMO Probably the top heel right now.

I liked Austin near the end, the whole WHAT bit I Loved cracked me up

Addy wrote:

Im not a big fan of the Rock either but enough of a fan reconize lol I remember one time during the last incarnation of the NWO The Rock and Nash were going back and forth and it was great!!!

Jericho is also good on the mic and because of that makes him a believeable heel. IMO Probably the top heel right now.

I liked Austin near the end, the whole WHAT bit I Loved cracked me up

Unfortunatly, the whoe WHAT craze is getting way out of hand. The crown kept doing that during the Undertaker's last promo, and as wrestling analizer, Josh Isenberg rightfully stated, that was totally dissrespectful to a veteran of his stature. Time and place people, time and place.

That "What?!" phrase got overdone by mid-2002 (when Stone Cold left) , I got sick of it, then Edge came up with the "You Suck!" chant for Kurt Angle's entrance theme.
(What was strange was even Kurt's fans were singing it but then cheering for him during his matches).

The crowds have never heard the term "beating a dead horse" have they?

I thought the Undertaker was awesome as Mean Mark before his WWF days. You just knew the WWF would take him and make him a big star.

Have to say that as much as ECW and the Monday Night Wars got me interested again as a fan, trying to watch that stuff today is tough. Just doesn't hold up for me at all, especially ECW. But at the time and in the timeframe it was awesome. I was such an ECW geek that there were several times I remember coming up with an excuse to end a night early with my girlfriend because ECW would come on at one and she was not the understanding type. Find that hysterical today.

It's been about 11 years since I've regularly followed wrestling at all. Nothing against today's wrestling but I'm just clearly way out of the demographic for it. Plus all the death made it kinda depressing. These days any wrestling fix is old 80's tapes/dvds. UWF in 86 is still some of my all time favorite stuff. But anything from 83 - 89 is gold to me. Especially anything with Randy Savage, Tito Santana, Midnight Express, Tully Blanchard, and Ronnie Garvin.

Here is my favorite match ever.

Do a google search for ESPN 360 Scott Hall and watch that. VERY sad.

mikeinfla wrote:

Do a google search for ESPN 360 Scott Hall and watch that. VERY sad.

I've seen that. Very sad indeed. Even moreso than Jake Roberts in Beyond The Mat.

Just read some sad news concering woman wresterl Kharma/Awesome Kong:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/250945-report-kharma-did-not-deliver-her-baby-as-expected

Appears that the pregnancy that put her on the sidelines ended in tragedy as the baby died before it could be delivered. My heart certainly goes out to her.

That's horrible. I can't even imagine how you feel in this situation, it can only be extreme painful and reading the article made even me sad. I hope she can recover from this pain and i hope that WWE doesn't play once again the the role of the assholes and release her.

ShadowAngel wrote:

That's horrible. I can't even imagine how you feel in this situation, it can only be extreme painful and reading the article made even me sad. I hope she can recover from this pain and i hope that WWE doesn't play once again the the role of the assholes and release her.

I don't think they would. I think the last thing WWE needs or wants is more bad publicity.

There's no such thing as bad publicity. But I don't think the WWE would stoop so low....or at least I hope not.

007 wrote:

There's no such thing as bad publicity.

Benoit anybody? That hurt wrestling's image in the public eye greatly. However, some good did come out of it. Although steroids turned out to have nothing to do with the tragedy, WWE made their drug policy more strickt. Also, since cuncussions did have somthing to do with it (a brain specialist concluded that Benoit had a brain of mush), chair shots to the back and top of the head are no longer allowed (which is why you only see them used on the back and legs).

by the way, where is Vader these days? I think he would get a good pop if he showed up in WWE if only for a legends contract. Would be good to see him again, I know he does do some stuff with his son Jesse White. I remember when Leon used to wrestle in AWA and would hold his kid up after a match for a ringside interview.

Wasn't there a match where Vader had his ear ripped off? Or am I thinking of something or someone else?

mikeinfla wrote:

by the way, where is Vader these days? I think he would get a good pop if he showed up in WWE if only for a legends contract. Would be good to see him again, I know he does do some stuff with his son Jesse White. I remember when Leon used to wrestle in AWA and would hold his kid up after a match for a ringside interview.

Wasn't there a match where Vader had his ear ripped off? Or am I thinking of something or someone else?

Close, Mick Foley had his ear ripped off in a match with Vader. There was a reported incident of Vaders eyeball coming out of his socket in a match though. Vader has been retired for a while but has recently returned to the squared circle:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/251047-sin-caras-wwe-return-vader-returns-to-the-ring

For wrestling news, anylizing, rumors, and inside scoop check out Wrestlezone.com. Great site for wrestling fans.

THATS the one. The eyeball. Couldn't remember it has been a while since I have seen that match. I think the match is available on YouTube and his eye does indeed pop out.

The newest celebrity involved in a sex tape scandal is...

Hulk Hogan.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/wrestling-great-hulk-hogan-in-reported-sex-tape-with-a-woman-that-is-not-his-ex-wife-linda-or-new-wife-jennifer-mcdaniel/story-e6frewyr-1226292785962

Required Fields wrote:

The newest celebrity involved in a sex tape scandal is... Hulk Hogan.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/wrestling-great-hulk-hogan-in-reported-sex-tape-with-a-woman-that-is-not-his-ex-wife-linda-or-new-wife-jennifer-mcdaniel/story-e6frewyr-1226292785962

I don't even want to see Sean Waltman and Chyna in a sex video. I sure as hell don't want to watch Hogan in one.

sad state of affairs.

I wonder if it is cosmic payback,.
Hulk supposedly held back others' careers, and they also could not get significant pay increases as he demanded a further larger percentage over anyone else's pay.