VH1 Classic Metal Evolution

I am looking forward to Samm Dunn's Metal Evolution on VH1 an 11 part series that will beginning airing on 11-11-11 and is based on his chart he used in his film :

I am looking forward to watching this and just curious if anyone else is and what thoughts if any you have on what the program might be like and who do you look forward to hearing from, anyone not included who should be, etc

I notice a number of errors. Children of Bodom have never been a thrash metal band, for one. And how is Opeth a gothic metal band? Also, there is a difference between doom metal and stoner metal. Candlemass are pretty much the epitome of doom metal, but are not a stoner metal band at all.

There are others, too, but these are a few that came to mind.

I haven't looked to see how different Sam Dunn's metal genealogy is today compared to when I started a thread on this in 2008, but here is the original link. I'm definitely stoked about this, since it's an eleven part series!

https://heartofmetal.niceboard.com/t7791-metal-genealogy

Uh oh, were are the genre police that will scream bloody murder that 1970's bands are being labeled "heavy metal". After all, there was no heavy metal in the 70's outside of Black Sabbath and Judas Priest.

There are a few bands in that chart that don't seem to fit into the category they are listed under.

I hate how people categorize Mercyful Fate as Black Metal. Sure, King wore corpse paint, but their music resembles black metal in no way, shape, or form.

Judging by the lists it looks way too stereotypical and safe-commercial-friendly to me, but we shall see. This dude already discredited himself instantly by putting several genre-defining bands in wrong boxes, so I have no expectations whatsoever.

And what's up with not having the most important box of them all -> "Traditional/Classic HEAVY METAL". Would have helped him to avoid such embarrassment as to naming Scorpions "power metal"

I got this from wiki so who knows how accurate or if this even the same one he used, but Samm Dunn knows alot about metal and his taste run the whole spectrum of the genre, unlike Eddie Trunk, and I am sure this is going to be a kick ass serious on VH1/

King Diamond did not wear "corpsepaint" as it did not really exist as such at the time...King Diamond wore Kabuki-inspired facepaint ala KISS. They categorize him as Black Metal mainly because of the Satanic/Occultic imagery that was influential on future Black Metal musicians...

If King Diamond wore "corpsepaint" , then so did Alice Cooper, KISS and The Misfits...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

King Diamond did not wear "corpsepaint" as it did not really exist as such at the time...King Diamond wore Kabuki-inspired facepaint ala KISS. They categorize him as Black Metal mainly because of the Satanic/Occultic imagery that was influential on future Black Metal musicians...

If King Diamond wore "corpsepaint" , then so did Alice Cooper, KISS and The Misfits...

Well, the style of makeup is what I meant. Not necessarily corpsepaint, but you get what I was talking about. But I do think that Black metal artists just took his and Kiss' and Cooper's look to next level.

Dunn's chart (in the first movie I seen by him) had obvious errors.
Ever since then, seeing that, and including many of today's "stars" who were interviewed,
and nothing to do with thrash metal instead of more bands that were influential,
have not cared much about what he releases.

Skid Row isn't glam metal. Suicidal Tendencies isn't metalcore. And Pantera wasn't thrash...

Troublezone wrote:

Skid Row isn't glam metal. Suicidal Tendencies isn't metalcore. And Pantera wasn't thrash...

EXACTLY!
Skid Row were heavy metal, plain and simple, with some songs in the NWOBHM and light thrash styles,
but nobody would classify them as that.

S.T.
If Dunn was going by what punk mag MRR (Maximum Rock n Roll) was calling metalcore in the early 1980s,
then it would have been like the first 2 C.O.C. lp's, The Accused, The Dehumanizers, etc
but pretty quick the terms metal-damaged hardcore,
or crossover were used more often than metal-core, or punk metal.
Metalcore was what was a little simpler and choppy.
S.T. was as much speed/thrash metal as it was hardcore punk since their start,
so they nicely fit that crossover label I thought.

Pantera had thrashy songs.
I could never find a category that fit them perfectly
after they went as heavy as they could.
Never liked the term Groove Metal either.

mlotek wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Skid Row isn't glam metal. Suicidal Tendencies isn't metalcore. And Pantera wasn't thrash...

EXACTLY!
Skid Row were heavy metal, plain and simple, with some songs in the NWOBHM and light thrash styles,
but nobody would classify them as that.

S.T.
If Dunn was going by what punk mag MRR (Maximum Rock n Roll) was calling metalcore in the early 1980s,
then it would have been like the first 2 C.O.C. lp's, The Accused, The Dehumanizers, etc
but pretty quick the terms metal-damaged hardcore,
or crossover were used more often than metal-core, or punk metal.
Metalcore was what was a little simpler and choppy.
S.T. was as much speed/thrash metal as it was hardcore punk since their start,
so they nicely fit that crossover label I thought.

Pantera had thrashy songs.
I could never find a category that fit them perfectly
after they went as heavy as they could.
Never liked the term Groove Metal either.

Yeah, Suicidal were Crossover. And Pantera was aggressive Power Groove.

This chart was maybe just cool visual guide used for the movie, the idea for the series came from this chart but I am sure the series will reflect the history and evolution of the music.

As far as genre, who belongs to what genre, I could careless. Metal in one form or another has been already around since 1968-69, and it has evolved into a giant umbrella that included band everyone from Poison to Possessed to Children of Bodom to AC/DC.

I'm looking forward to it. My expectations are on the low-ish side of things, but if I'm entertained for the time I'm watching it, I'll be happy. That Dunn guy does have a passion about music, so at least he's got that going for him.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I'm looking forward to it. My expectations are on the low-ish side of things, but if I'm entertained for the time I'm watching it, I'll be happy. That Dunn guy does have a passion about music, so at least he's got that going for him.

I wonder if Freddy's hero Eddie ' Ace once my potty' Trunk will be interviewed for the program, since he is considered Mr Metal by many peps.

I love metal fans. "Oh, yeah, these acclaimed, widely-seen documentaries about metal, yeah those are nice, whatever. But the guy is clearly a poser because some little chart that probably isn't even his doesn't meet my exacting demands!"

I do like his movies (Global Metal being my favorite of the bunch) and I'm looking forward to the show.

manny wrote:

Freddy's hero Eddie Trunk

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!

His other films were pretty good, so this should at least be entertaining. Not really expecting any "new" information out of it though.

The list isn't too bad outside of some obvious genre mis identifications. My one complaint would be: no Diamond Head in the NWOBHM category? Seriously? Lightning To The Nations is one of the most influential metal albums, how could you over look them?

I have loved the movies he has made, 'Metal: A Headbanger's Journey' 'Global Metal" Rus: Beyond the LimeLight' and "Flight 666' where all great films IMO, so I am looking forward to this series.

Fat Freddy wrote:

manny wrote:

Freddy's hero Eddie Trunk

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!

LMAO!!!!!

Conversely, will Eddie "Insert your favorite Eddie Trunk joke here" Trunk have Sam on his show?

and I agree with Manny - Sam has tons more knowledge than trunky boy. I would love to see Sam and Eddie go head to head to head on stump the (can't think of a good one right now).
One funny story about Trunk - when Maiden played Ft Lauderdale, Trunk held a book signing near by and attended the show. After the show, I saw him and told my friend (who is on the same wavelength as most of use here about Trunk) "Dude, look it's your buddy" so he turns around ready to shoot the bird, sees it's Trunk and quickly changes to a wave to be nice - he did wave back.

We still laugh about that one!

manny wrote:

I have loved the movies he has made, 'Metal: A Headbanger's Journey' 'Global Metal" Rus: Beyond the LimeLight' and "Flight 666' where all great films IMO, so I am looking forward to this series.

I am with you! I can't wait for his next two films - Rush:Live In Cleveland and, duh the more important one, Maiden in South America Final Frontier Tour.

I hope this is released on DVD. I like his documentaries. (Still haven't seen Global Metal though).

I've only seen Dunn's "Headbanger's Journey" and Rush documentaries (I still have "Flight 666" recorded onto a DVD somewhere, but have never watched it!) and dug both of them. The guy seems to know his stuff.

I doubt the chart pictured above is going to be the exact backbone of this forthcoming series. Lord knows he's probably had so many e-mails and letters from angry genre nit pickers that he's probably revised it several times by now.