Metallica getting into RnR Hall of Fame...

Thought some here may get a kick out of this conversation I was having at the CMR. It's not the entire discussion, but the meat of it. I detest the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. How does Madonna and Run DMC get in but Kiss, Alice Cooper, Rush, etc. not?

arttie wrote:

Metallica getting into RnR Hall of Fame...

...along with Jeff Beck, Run DMC, and some others. Cool that Metallica is getting in. Regardless of where some people stand with their music now, I don't think you can deny their importance.

_Wes wrote:

There is so much music that they have totally left out or forgotten. It's another hollywood elitest sham.

ulmetal wrote:

Exactly.

Metallica is in but no Kiss, Alice Cooper...

Friggin' Madonna and Run DMC get in before Kiss or Alice Cooper?

Luke Easter wrote:

I'm more in favor of Run DMC than KISS as inductees. Run DMC were the faces of a new type of music, and they very much defined the genre of rap/hip hop in it's early days of commercial acceptance.

KISS are average/mediocre musicians, at best, who have been able to create an empire based more on savvy marketing than musical chops, IMO. That's not to say that KISS doesn't have any memorable songs or legitimate hits, but a disproportionate part of their catalog is made up of filler. I'd have to say the same for Madonna.

Rush should be in the Hall, but they won't be until one of 'em kicks off.

In the end, the Hall is very much a commercial entity. It exists to generate income for itself, and the induction cremonies are a huge part of that. So far as I know, there are no comp tickets for the awards ceremony/concerts/jam. Even the inductees have to pay for their seats. The broadcast rights generate income as well, and the addition of ephemera to the new inductees creates more desire from a segment of the public to visit the hall's museum(s). None of this has anything to do with the actual music. Picking more commercially accepted acts, like Madonna, Run DMC and Metallica, makes more sense from an economic standpoint. The occasional nod to someone like Jeff Beck is just to placate the naysayers and haters; it's a stab at maintianing an air of legitimacy.

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for my assessment of KISS, but that's my honest opinion of them. I'm not a KISS hater, but I'm not a big fan either. I like some of their stuff; the rest I can live without with no problme. I know they have a very devoted fanbase, and I mean no disrespect to any KISS fans. We all have different tastes.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Agree with Luke about KISS.

ultmetal wrote:

Get ready for the flame!

What a load of crap. You actually think that a rap band, who have absolutely NO musical talent deserves to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, yet a band like Kiss that has inspired thousands of bands in multiple genres, has sold millions of albums, has been around for decades, etc. does not? A band like Van Halen, who are already in the hall, may not have even been around if it wasn't for Kiss. It was Gene Simmons who helped get them their big break in 70's.

Somehow I doubt the millions of Kiss fans would say the majority of the KISS catalog was "filler". I actually prefer the non-hits to the hits myself.

Kiss has plenty of musical talent. Paul Stanley has one sensational voice and is a fantastic songwriter. Gene Simmons despite all his money grubbing and sexual boasting, is an excellent bass player and songwriter himself. Take a listen to songs like "Going Blind." I'd say the musicianship was quite a bit better than anything Run DMC did. Ace Frehley was a huge influence and inspired many to pick up a guitar. Dimebag would have been the first to admit it was Ace that inspired him to pick up a guitar in the first place. Kiss has a long musical heritage in ROCK AND ROLL.

The Rock N Roll Hall of Shame is a farce, I personally have no problem with Run DMC getting inducted, hip hop/rap is a cultural and commerical phenomenia and they were pioneers of this genre.

Jeff Beck's solo career speaks for itself and I have no issue with Metallica getting inducted, but not inducting Deep Purple, Alice Cooper , KISS, or Judas Priest makes them less than credible, if it is commerical potential artist getting in is an issue than they are morons because all of the acts I have mentioned have all individually sold millions and millions of albums and all are still very popular to this day.

Also KISS and Alice Cooper especially cross generation lines in terms of audience. And even Deep Purple has experienced a small commerical spike due to the game 'Rock Band"

In one last thing is all of these bands have influenced countless musicians and are all cultural icons, not to mention even respected by the very people that tore them down in 60's, 70's and 80's. Rolling Stone magazine even has gone as to acknowledge Alice Cooper as an important artist.

Alright I am done with my rant.

Run DMC has no musical talent? I call BS on that one.

Regardless, it should be called the Music Hall of Fame. Run DMC and Madonna (and countless others) are not rock. But Run DMC and Madonna surely do deserve a lot of praise. Madonna is easily as big as Kiss, and Run DMC are pioneers in the hip hop scene, and even partially in the rock scene due to their crossover with Aerosmith (though they'd mixed rock and rap before that).

I personally hate the RNR HOF, and I think Luke hit it on the head that it's more about commercial appeal and money than about real rock music. I could care less whether Alice Cooper of KISS get in because I don't need the big-wigs to tell me who's a HOFer and who is not. I think real music fans know who is deserving of it anyway.

Eyesore wrote:

Run DMC and Madonna (and countless others) are not rock.

Exactly my point!

I Love that Luke Easter.

I agree with Eyesore.It needs to be called The Music Hall of Fame.

True that Run DMC and Madonna are not rock n roll, but they have made an impact, RUN DMC in terms of helping make hip hop a commerical and cultural power house and Madonna by her business savy and cleverly written pop hits has made herself a cultural and worldwide phenomenia, what her lasting contributions to the actual world music are is debateable but not her impact as a cultural lighting rod, which she exploits masterfully.

KISS would not have lasted as a successful metal band for 30 plus years if all they had going for them was make up and few flashbombs because if that was the case than Pretty Boy Floyd should have cleaned up during the 80's, it is about the music, love it or hate it, KISS's legacy rest on its music.

from Rolling Stone;


Daniel Kreps of Rolling Stone reports that Metallica were on hand for yesterday’s Rock and Roll Hall of Fame announcement, fielding questions about being asked to enter the rock institution alongside Run-DMC, Jeff Beck, Bobby Womack and Little Anthony and the Imperials in Cleveland on April 4th.

“Life is good in Metallica right now,” James Hetfield said. So who should induct the metal legends? “I think that’s an ongoing discussion,” he said. “Between who the people actually know and care about, who actually respects you as a band… You don’t want just some popular guy who’s attracting TV viewers to induct you just because of that.”

What about the possibility of reuniting with bassist Jason Newsted, who was in the band from 1986 until 2001? “There’s been an invite put out, no doubt,” Hetfield revealed. “We want everyone to celebrate — everyone who’s been a part of it. Jason has been a big part of that. You don’t want to see the drama of a… unfortunately, Blondie or [Sex] Pistols or Van Halen. It’s ridiculous. This is Metallica’s moment — along with others — but let’s celebrate. Let’s forget the crap.” As for what bassist Cliff Burton, who died in a tour bus accident in 1986, would have felt about the Rock Hall invite, Hetfield said, “I would like to think that Cliff would love this.”

“Jeff Beck is one of my heroes and has been since I first picked up a guitar,” Kirk Hammett said about his fellow inductee. “I’m looking forward to playing some guitar with him at some point.” Each member of Metallica was also asked what band he’d like to see in the Rock Hall. They lobbied for Motorhead (Hetfield), Deep Purple (Ulrich), Rush (Hammett) and UFO (bassist Robert Trujillo.)

Yeah Run DMC having no musical talent wasn't really a fair comment.

I agree with Luke in his rant about the RnR HoF but Kiss having no talent? Forget the make-up, the lunch boxes, comic books, and action figures; when they hit the music world in 1973, most of the hippie bands were drving themselves into the ground and Kiss came along with energy and hard-driving rock that hadnt been heard before. I'm not a huge Kiss fan but I totally agree with those who say they pioneered and influenced millions of rock bands for decades.


....and dont get me started about Rush not being in the HoF. But ya know what, maybe that's not such a bad thing.

I really think you've got to look at what Rock means, i think what they mean by Rock is popular music of the last 50 years.....Rock and Pop as interchangeable terms (Rock/Pop). Because that's what it was before things got splintered. Elvis was a Pop star and Rock star.

If James Brown's inducted then don't you think you should see his offspring in (Rap/Hip Hop/Run DMC)......i mean Aerosmith are in.

Kiss, Alice Cooper, Deep Purple etc will get in because they're big names that will generate income for this sham/event.

My problem is the ones that won't get in because they're not names....do you think you'll ever see Love, Small Faces, 13th Floor Elevators, New York Dolls, Suicide, Gun Club, Replacements, Husker Du, Jesus & Mary Chain etc in? Wholly deserving of their huge impacts on music despite their small standing in the general music consciousness. And is the Stooges in yet or what?

I don't know why i care anyway.

As pathetic as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, it's eclipsed by that which is the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. There were at least a couple of Baseball writers/pundits who didn't vote Rickey Henderson in as a first ballot Hall of Famer. It didn't matter in the end, but it just goes to show you that some people are clueless, and it doesn't matter who you are in life.

My feeling is that bands like Alice Cooper, Deep Purple, Rush, Kiss, etc...will one day be in the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately, those who vote will make them sweat it out like Jim Rice did, who was down to his last chance. After that, Jim would've had to be voted in by the veterans committee.

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, not Music Hall of Fame.

Rock and roll artists only.

A General Music Hall of Fame should then be created separate because simply Madonna and Run DMC are NOT ROCK AND ROLL! And I love Run DMC - I'm not a hater. Like everyone has said, it's commercialism at its best (or worst - however you choose to look at it).

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metalinmyveins wrote:

As pathetic as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, it's eclipsed by that which is the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. There were at least a couple of Baseball writers/pundits who didn't vote Rickey Henderson in as a first ballot Hall of Famer. It didn't matter in the end, but it just goes to show you that some people are clueless, and it doesn't matter who you are in life.

My feeling is that bands like Alice Cooper, Deep Purple, Rush, Kiss, etc...will one day be in the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately, those who vote will make them sweat it out like Jim Rice did, who was down to his last chance. After that, Jim would've had to be voted in by the veterans committee.

Those who didn't vote Rickey Henderson in should have their jobs taken away.

And all the above mentioned bands will one day make it in.

rattpoison wrote:

My problem is the ones that won't get in because they're not names....do you think you'll ever see Love, Small Faces, 13th Floor Elevators, New York Dolls, Suicide, Gun Club, Replacements, Husker Du, Jesus & Mary Chain etc in? Wholly deserving of their huge impacts on music despite their small standing in the general music consciousness. And is the Stooges in yet or what?

Great taste in music, rattpoison, but I think some of the bands you mentioned will be inducted in the future such as New York Dolls, Small Faces, Husker Du and Jesus and the Mary Chain because they are all critical darlings if not exactly mainstream successes. As far as Suicide and Gun Club making it in, not a chance, besides yourself and I, I doubt many people own any of their albums which is crime in itself. Of course I am wrong because as much as I love the Sex Pistols and The Clash, I donot understand how they made it into the rock n roll hall of fame before the Stooges.

I don't know why i care anyway.

I agree I don't even know why I pay attention to or care who these clueless bastards vote in their exclusive little frat party.

manny wrote:

I don't even know why I pay attention to or care who these clueless bastards vote in their exclusive little frat party.

To true. I think it's just the idea of a "Hall of Fame", yet those who are more than deserving of being there aren't, while those who barely fit into the description of "rock and roll" are there.

BTW, I like Run DMC. I still own Raisin' Hell. However, I don't think they are "musicians". They are MC (Master of Ceremonies) and DJ (Disc Jockey). Not saying it doesn't take talent to do what they do, but they are not musicians.

20 Bands I Think Should Be In:

Alice Cooper
Blue Oyster Cult
Deep Purple
Devo
Foghat
Heart
Jethro Tull
Judas Priest
Kansas
KISS
MC5
Meat Loaf
Ozzy Osbourne
Public Enemy (If they have RUN DMC, why not Public Enemy?)
Quiet Riot
Rush
Slade
Sweet
Thin Lizzy
Yes (Seriously, why isn't Yes in?)

GrandNational wrote:

Those who didn't vote Rickey Henderson in should have their jobs taken away.

You are so right. While I haven't followed baseball since the mid 90s I was during Ricky's tenure. The man stole more bases than any player ever. He definatly belongs in the HoF.

I agree that they should change the name to the Music Hall of Fame to avoid any confusion now and in the future. Also, as far as I could learn through the internet about said Hall of Fame, it is primarily run by three people to make money. They simply vote in who they want to be in and who they think will make money for them. They also seem to pick across the genres to maximize the dollar. I also believe that bands such as Deep Purple and Rush and Kiss, and a host of others will eventually be in. It's just a matter of time until they can be capitalized upon too. You can't induct all of the biggest names in music in one year.

manny wrote:

Great taste in music, rattpoison, but I think some of the bands you mentioned will be inducted in the future such as New York Dolls, Small Faces, Husker Du and Jesus and the Mary Chain because they are all critical darlings if not exactly mainstream successes. As far as Suicide and Gun Club making it in, not a chance, besides yourself and I, I doubt many people own any of their albums which is crime in itself. Of course I am wrong because as much as I love the Sex Pistols and The Clash, I donot understand how they made it into the rock n roll hall of fame before the Stooges.

Being a critical darling does not sell tickets to the event.....and that's my major gripe with the whole thing. Just run to make money. The whole idea and execution of it is compromised by this.

I think alot more people own Suicide records then you think Manny......so wildly influential and literally changed music. So many bands nowadays (and before) claim them as a major influence.

That's the kind of band that a 'real' and 'uncompromised' Rock N' Roll Hall Of Fame would induct.

why is everyone so wrapped up in this crap? some of you guys crack me up. "oh the Hall Of Fame is a sham. how come my fave bands aren't there?"

if it's a sham/joke, why would you want them to honor any band you particularly care about? it's pop culture... is it really worth caring this much about? not to me.

mc666 wrote:

if it's a sham/joke, why would you want them to honor any band you particularly care about? it's pop culture... is it really worth caring this much about? not to me.

I agree. Not even worth the energy to turn slightly so I could fart in their general direction. The same for Baseball HOF.

The RnRHoF is not a talent competition. It bases its inductions on sales & cultural/musical impact. RUN-DMC, MADONNA and other non-Rock artists in the HoF had tremendous cultural/musical impact. They influenced an entire generation of music and still do. That's the reason METALLICA is getting in.

But I would argue that KISS carries the same weight. The cultural & musical impact of KISS is immeasurable. Everyone knows who KISS is. Almost every Rock band in the last 30 years will mention KISS as some sort of influence. It's ludicrous that they are not already in. Same with ALICE COOPER and DEEP PURPLE. Hell, it took years after becoming eligible (and after being inducted into the British HoF) for BLACK SABBATH to get in...what kind of travesty is that??

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

The RnRHoF is not a talent competition. It bases its inductions on sales & cultural/musical impact. RUN-DMC, MADONNA and other non-Rock artists in the HoF had tremendous cultural/musical impact. They influenced an entire generation of music and still do. That's the reason METALLICA is getting in.

But I would argue that KISS carries the same weight. The cultural & musical impact of KISS is immeasurable. Everyone knows who KISS is. Almost every Rock band in the last 30 years will mention KISS as some sort of influence. It's ludicrous that they are not already in. Same with ALICE COOPER and DEEP PURPLE. Hell, it took years after becoming eligible (and after being inducted into the British HoF) for BLACK SABBATH to get in...what kind of travesty is that??

Another reason Kiss belongs is because they are a marketing juggernaut. Kiss merchandise outweights any other band merchandise. T-Shirts, lunch boxes, action figures, perfume, pants, wallets, jewlery, wine, games, shoes, skateboards, glassware, other clothing, home decor, even a coffin. Not even Hanna Montana (which is everywhere) can touch the volume of Kiss merchandise.

DallasBlack wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

The RnRHoF is not a talent competition. It bases its inductions on sales & cultural/musical impact. RUN-DMC, MADONNA and other non-Rock artists in the HoF had tremendous cultural/musical impact. They influenced an entire generation of music and still do. That's the reason METALLICA is getting in.

But I would argue that KISS carries the same weight. The cultural & musical impact of KISS is immeasurable. Everyone knows who KISS is. Almost every Rock band in the last 30 years will mention KISS as some sort of influence. It's ludicrous that they are not already in. Same with ALICE COOPER and DEEP PURPLE. Hell, it took years after becoming eligible (and after being inducted into the British HoF) for BLACK SABBATH to get in...what kind of travesty is that??

Another reason Kiss belongs is because they are a marketing juggernaut. Kiss merchandise outweights any other band merchandise. T-Shirts, lunch boxes, action figures, perfume, pants, wallets, jewlery, wine, games, shoes, skateboards, glassware, other clothing, home decor, even a coffin. Not even Hanna Montana (which is everywhere) can touch the volume of Kiss merchandise.

Ironically, it's the merch/marketing that kinda hurts them, IMO, as far as the HoF goes. That makes them seem like a novelty, not musicians. None of the other inductees are "marketing juggernauts" ala Hanna Montana.