Calling On All Ultimatum Fans

I've been setting up my rateyourmusic.com account and I'm currently doing Ultimatum and came accross these insipid attacks on Into The Pit:

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If you are going to spend money on some thrash, why not spend your hard earned cash on the real thing? Instead of spending hard earned dollars on a poor carbon copy of the real thing. Fans of real thrash, should stay clear of this one. They will sadly be disappointed.

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A friend kept suggesting this band to me, and even though I typically steer clear of Christian metal (more on why...in a few sentences), I gave this one a chance: one, she normally has a great taste, and two, the album art actually looked decent. Call that superficial, but dammit, before all these fancy websites with samples and such, album art and descriptions were all we had to go on. The musical talent is here, but Ultimatum falls into that same trap that every Christian metal band can't seem to avoid. The music is generic as can be - there is nothing here I haven't heard before across countless metal acts. Sure, there's riffs, solos, hooks, grating vocals, thundering percussion and audible bass, but all that means exactly nothing if there is no creativity. The telltale sign of a band that puts their motivation ahead of musical ability is when the band or fans first need to tell the potential listener what other popular, original bands this band sounds like (I refer you to Ultimatum's Wiki entry for a prime example). Much like organized religion, the only way these bands gain listeners is by taking what other original artists have done much better, and making their version of it.

If purveyors of Christian metal such as Ultimatum truly wish to be taken seriously, they need to scrounge up some creativity and realize that at least some people are on top of the old subliminal technique of altering familiar logos, artwork and music in order to lure in the unsuspecting masses. Meanwhile, a band such as Deathspell Omega is in the midst of creating a spiritually motivated trilogy of albums that are rife with innovation, both lyrically and musically. The difference is that DSO is a band, and Ultimatum is an evangelical commercial.

I felt the urge to stand up for Ultimatum and Into the Pit:

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Great solid thrash metal. Ultimatum are a band on top of their game and this album is their most intense one thus far. They have really stepped up their game with this one. I see some reviews here that complain that they aren't origional but they aren't trying to be. They play metal not to break boundries but because they love heavy metal. Anybody who doubts this needs to check out vocalist Scott Water's website nolifetilmetal.com. If you think you have a good metal collection, his will put yours to shame. Ulitmatum loves metal and that is the main reason they exist. Yeah, the lyrics are Christian but that is just because the members are Christian. You can't blame them for writing about whats in their hearts. Ultimatum ARE real thrash and if you can't accept that because of their religious beliefs then that's your loss.

If you have a rateyourmusic.com account (or plan on doing one) and you like Into The Pit how about writing in a review to show these guys up? Ultimatly it doesn't matter what these yahoos think as long as we like the music, but as long as you have the account why not add a review.

That second quote is a copy and paste job from a review that they got a while back.

Arguing with haters is pointless...

Thanks Dallas. Appreciate the support!

Into the Pit almost universally received positive reviews even from mainstream print magazines like HEAVY!, Unrestrained and Outburn. The only negative reviews seemed to be from those who didn't like the lyrical approach or who had some sort of personal grudge against us. One reviewer had a personal grudge against me and spent more time talking about how he didn't like my reviews of Destruction and Sodom on NLTM than he did about our CD.

I also read a negative review by a guy who obviously knew nothing about heavy metal. He compared my vocals to James Hetfield and the music to Pantera. He also mentioned Oh Sleeper in the review.

As for the 'generic' comment above, well all I have to say to that is we do what we do. We aren't trying to re-create the wheel or create some new sub-genre of metal. Most bands that do just do so by mixing together different styles anyhow. We like classic metal and thrash, so that's what we play.

If anyone wants to read the good, bad and ugly reviews for Into the Pit:
http://www.ultimatum.net/pitreviews.htm

Anyhow, again, I really appreciate the support.

imm sure i have read that revieiw somewhere before i cant put my finger on it

everyone has an opinion. nothing to get uptight about.

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As for the 'generic' comment above, well all I have to say to that is we do what we do. We aren't trying to re-create the wheel or create some new sub-genre of metal. Most bands that do just do so by mixing together different styles anyhow. We like classic metal and thrash, so that's what we play.

Traditionalist. The same way new bands play classic Bluegrass or Jazz...keeping tradition alive.

It seemed that reviewer was more intent on reviewing the band's religious beliefs than he was reviewing the music. I have feeling he just read the lyric sheet and didn't bother listening to the CD, made up his mind beside on his own personal baiases.

I was completely blown away by the stuff I heard from Into the Pit. I think it's by far the best Ultimatum album!

Everyone can have an opinion as long as it is well formed. Comparing a Christian Thrash band to a Satanic Black metal band is like comparing Apples to cinnamon buns, they are completely different things. Some people are just blinded by stupid bias.

there are people who won't listen to Slayer because of the satanic message. likewise, there are those who choose to avoid being exposed to christian propaganda. that's all fine & good. however, it's foolish to review something that you obviously have not listened to simply to dissuade others from hearing it. let those who actually care to listen make up their own minds about it.

mc666 wrote:

there are people who won't listen to Slayer because of the satanic message. likewise, there are those who choose to avoid being exposed to christian propaganda. that's all fine & good. however, it's foolish to review something that you obviously have not listened to simply to dissuade others from hearing it. let those who actually care to listen make up their own minds about it.

I agree. What do you think of my Slayer reviews on NLTM? I often get criticism from people on those reviews. I think I am fairly honest in my reviews praising the music and the lyrics, where I can and explaining what it is I don't like about some of the other lyrics. To me that is how a review should be. If you don't like the lyrics, fine, say so, but don't say the music sucks just because you don't like the lyrics.

i really like Into the Pit. sure i dont think is a future classic of heavy metal but what is these days when perfection is everything

ultmetal wrote:

I agree. What do you think of my Slayer reviews on NLTM? I often get criticism from people on those reviews. I think I am fairly honest in my reviews praising the music and the lyrics, where I can and explaining what it is I don't like about some of the other lyrics. To me that is how a review should be. If you don't like the lyrics, fine, say so, but don't say the music sucks just because you don't like the lyrics.

I think the majority of Slayer's lyrics are lame, not from a christian standpoint but rather it seems as though they were written by an angry 12 year old.

Ult, I have no problem with your review of Slayer, you state right out front what it is and why you object to the lyrics of Slayer. You do a fair review of music and even acknowledge their place in metal history.

manny wrote:

It seemed that reviewer was more intent on reviewing the band's religious beliefs than he was reviewing the music. I have feeling he just read the lyric sheet and didn't bother listening to the CD, made up his mind beside on his own personal baiases.

Bingo! I second this statement.

All of Ultimatum's lp's have been solid, but this one is a little more solid!

Symphonic Extremities > Into the Pit............IMO.

narrow minded people! I started to go off on a tangent but you guys got it covered. Into the pit is a solid album and one of my favorites!

Stender wrote:

Symphonic Extremities > Into the Pit............IMO.

I tend to agree. My order...

Symphonic Extremities
Into The Pit
Puppet of Destruction
Mechanics of perilous times (I still like it though)

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Symphonic Extremities
Into The Pit
Puppet of Destruction
Mechanics of perilous times (I still like it though)

My favorites are in the exact opposite order.

I will say Symphonic Extremities is highly underrated. I listened to it a few nights ago and I'd say it is my second favorite, mainly because it is more melodic than the others.

Symphonic Extremities had a better vocal performance by scott(more emotion really) the riffs were better, and the songwriting was better.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to mine and I really like Ultimatium and I don’t really care who they “sound like”, if I did then I would listen to those albums instead. To bring up the lyrical content as a concern is something I have noticed with bands that are overtly Christian or Satanic. Not really sure why that is, maybe it’s because the band centers itself around the lyrics, kind of what you would expect from a concept album where you are expecting a story that plays out from song to song, which pulls the focus of the listener to get it. Usually reviewers are giving first impressions and not really a comprehensive and informed account. Far too often you can tell that many of the reviews for an album are rooted in the thoughts of one review (probably the first one) with only slight variances to throw off the scent of the copy cat. The crazy thing is, I base almost all of my purchases from the reviews I read.

I have into the pit and …in the end and listen to them regularly, and plan to get the rest of them and why is that, cause I like their music, plain and simple.

ultmetal wrote:

What do you think of my Slayer reviews on NLTM?

they seem pretty balanced. with exception of your review of the God Send Death ep. you tend to go a little overboard with your disdain of the lyrics there. as if you had not made it clear enough in the previous 8 releases you had reviewed. :