Sabbat - Sabbat (1985)

Quote :

Released: June 1985
Recorded: April 1985
Studio: Hiko's Studio, Nagoya, Japan
Producer: Sabbat

Tracks:
1. 'Black Fire'
2. 'Mion's Hill'

Personnel:
Gezol - Bass, Vocals
Ozny - Guitars
Elizaveat - Guitars
Valvin - Drums

The very first Sabbat EP. Both songs are absolutely insane, with "Black Fire" representing black/thrash metal aggression and the solemnly epic "Mion's Hill" remaining a Sabbat staple that's seen multiple incarnations over the years. My pick would ultimately be "Black Fire".

It's cool that you enjoy obscure Japanese bands, but how is somebody supposed to participate if you are doing a poll on something "nobody" has. That is why I have been doing more mainstream stuff. You take a lot for granted expecting everyone to go jump on youtube just to participate. I only have "Envenom" & "The Dwelling". They were totally "happenstance" finds.

Thanks for posting the cover art, the had some interesting concepts.

James B. wrote:

It's cool that you enjoy obscure Japanese bands, but how is somebody supposed to participate if you are doing a poll on something "nobody" has.     That is why I have been doing more mainstream stuff.   You take a lot for granted expecting everyone to go jump on youtube just to participate.  I only have "Envenom" & "The Dwelling".  They were totally "happenstance" finds.  

Thanks for posting the cover art, the had some interesting concepts.

Thanks for your input. However, I must correct you that Sabbat is far from obscure. They have a huge following in many metal circles, and their CDs are easy to find. Also, the fact I'm posting these polls is a start. All that talk about mainstream bands doesn't cut it for me anymore. Moved on from that.

So, have you heard the EP yet?

Painkiller wrote:

Thanks for your input. However, I must correct you that Sabbat is far from obscure. So, have you heard the EP yet?

I see the reasoning and agree this is a way to get them some exposure. How exactly are they far from obscure ? I'd wager more metal-heads attach the name "Sabbat" to the band from England than Japan ? I could be wrong.
If you have to listen to a band's older stuff from 25 to 30 years ago on youtube or other media service online, how is that not obscure. I plan to listen to the E.P eventually. It was only two songs, maybe you could've embedded something? If you want to help pimp a band, help make it easier for others to share in the experience ? I would rather click on an embedded clip in a thread than go spend the time hunting for something online.

James B. wrote:

I see the reasoning and agree this is a way to get them some exposure.  How exactly are they far from obscure ?  I'd wager more metal-heads attach the name "Sabbat" to the band from England than Japan ? I could be wrong.  
If you have to listen to a band's older stuff from 25 to 30 years ago on youtube or other media service online, how is that not obscure.  I plan to listen to the E.P eventually.  It was only two songs, maybe you could've embedded something?  If you want to help pimp a band, help make it easier for others to share in the experience ?  I would rather click on an embedded clip in a thread than go spend the time hunting for something online.

Sabbat has more of a cult following, but that doesn't make them obscure. They're no more obscure than Liege Lord or Manilla Road. Albeit not a name that you see get mentioned along the likes of Sarcófago or Sodom, they are nonetheless conventionally brought up on many metal communities that I've observed. As I said, the CDs and vinyl are all pretty easy to find online. Labels such as Nuclear War Now! Productions often put out their stuff, and just a few years back, all of their recordings from the early 1980s up to 1990 had been compiled in a box comprised of vinyl EPs, demo cassettes, and many other artifacts.

I agree that the British band of the same name is more recognized, due to Andy Sneap's association.

Black Fire.

Mion's Hill

Not the biggest fan of this band but they do have a huge following these days.

Painkiller wrote:

I agree that the British band of the same name is more recognized, due to Andy Sneap's association.

The British band of the same name is more recognised because a lot more people liked them they were more recognised long before Andy Sneap became a 'name'

I kind of agree with you that this lot weren't 'that' obscure, anyone trading tapes at that time will have been sent this at one time or another and most people did what I did which was listen once and ignore. It's not terrible as such but it's plod along heavy metal with a bit of Discharge thrown in, there is nothing of this black/thrash metal aggression you talk about. This was released in '85 a year after Apocalyptic Raids, In the Sign of Evil, Sentence of Death, War & Pain, Bathory, Chemical Warfare, We Have Arrived and Morbid Tales. Compared to any of those records this is just a heavy metal record with nothing original or aggressive about it.

I do think that they got better and some of their stuff is pretty fun. 

For the purposes of the poll the second song is slightly less dull than the first.

Boris2008 wrote:

The British band of the same name is more recognised because a lot more people liked them they were more recognised long before Andy Sneap became a 'name'

Maybe back then when they were still active, but I'm talking about the present.

Boris2008 wrote:

It's not terrible as such but it's plod along heavy metal with a bit of Discharge thrown in, there is nothing of this black/thrash metal aggression you talk about. This was released in '85 a year after Apocalyptic Raids, In the Sign of Evil, Sentence of Death, War & Pain, Bathory, Chemical Warfare, We Have Arrived and Morbid Tales. Compared to any of those records this is just a heavy metal record with nothing original or aggressive about it.

I agree that there are abundant NWOBHM elements, but I don't agree with the Discharge comparison. It's black metal in the vein of Venom. Fair enough that they wouldn't get that black/thrash metal aggression and power until later. Regardless, I disagree with you on it not being quality heavy metal. It's a great EP. Also, that Dark Angel album was released in 1985.

Boris2008 wrote:

I do think that they got better and some of their stuff is pretty fun.

I agree with you on that. Sabbat is a band that you can't really say the new stuff sucks, unlike so many other bands. Have you heard The Dwelling, Karisma, or even the recent Sabbatrinity? All very diverse albums, spanning different timelines.

Painkiller wrote:

I agree that there are abundant NWOBHM elements, but I don't agree with the Discharge comparison. It's black metal in the vein of Venom. 

Dude please!!

Listen to Bla Fi Bla Fi again and then listen to the first song on this and tell me that you can't hear it. It sounds a heluva lot more like Discharge than it does Venom.

Based on one song, though? You could also make the same argument about Tank, Warfare, Sodom, and many other bands from within that spectrum. There is a punk influence, but I still liken "Black Fire" more to early Venom. Gezol even had a band called Hot Rod, which primarily played Iron Maiden covers.

Boris2008 wrote:

It's not terrible as such but it's plod along heavy metal with a bit of Discharge thrown in, there is nothing of this black/thrash metal aggression you talk about.

I'm pretty sure that Sabbat is nowhere near Discharge

If you want bands that sounds like Discharge, listen to Avskum, The Shitlickers, or any D-beat bands like Parasit, Disfear, Totalitar, Victims and Dodsdomd.

Black fire will get my vote because it has that aggression, raw sounding feelings to it.

Painkiller wrote:

Based on one song, though? You could also make the same argument about Tank, Warfare, Sodom.

You're right so I will. Discharge are one of the most influential bands ever and did influence Tank, Warfare, Venom, Sodom, Bathory and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost (Tom Warrior freely admits this)

It's not based on one song Discharge were the original crossover band and you will find D Beat all over those bands recordings.

Boris2008 wrote:

@ Death Sentinel How can you say it's not close to Discharge and then quote a load of D Beat bands?

What do you think the D stands for?

Because they are two different bands. One plays Black/Thrash while the other plays Punk so there's no common ground.

D-Beat = Discharge-Beat or Discore. That what it actually stand for. I can name you all the Discharge clone bands that plays just like Discharge (sometime even faster) but i'll leave it at that.

hey, why did you edit out your post responding to mine?

Boris2008 wrote:

You're right so I will. Discharge are one of the most influential bands ever and did influence Tank, Warfare, Venom, Sodom, Bathory and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost (Tom Warrior freely admits this)

It's not based on one song Discharge were the original crossover band and you will find D Beat all over those bands recordings.

No disagreement on their massive impact, and I love their early stuff. Let's take it even a step further and mention Motörhead as one of the precursors to this kind of music.

I just wanted to respond to you likening Sabbat more to Discharge than Venom. We can agree to disagree.

Death Sentinel wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

@ Death Sentinel How can you say it's not close to Discharge and then quote a load of D Beat bands?

What do you think the D stands for?

Because they are two different bands. One plays Black/Thrash while the other plays Punk so there's no common ground.

D-Beat = Discharge-Beat. That what it actually stand for. I can name you all the Discharge clone bands that plays just like Discharge (sometime even faster) but i'll leave it at that.

I honestly don't care how many bands you can name, tbh I misread what you originally said but just because there were a lot of punk bands who played in the same style as Discharge has no bearing on whether or not they influenced early extreme metal, they did and to say that Venom or Sabbat style Black/Thrash was completely separate from punk is insane.

Death Sentinel wrote:

hey, why did you edit out your post responding to mine?

Because I misread what you said and thought that you were saying that Sabbat sounded more like those bands.

P.S 

The black/thrash metal hybrid may carry clear punk elements, but it's still a separate area. The biggest difference in that being that there's more metal than merely punk, coupled by the fact that black metal is as non-punk as you can get in metal. While the aggression itself is borrowed from hardcore bands, the atmosphere is completely different.

If we were debating pure thrash metal and punk, then it'd be harder to distinguish the bands that played both genres. I think that even by 1985, Sabbat wasn't your run-of-the-mill metal band, as contrary to your actual opinion of the self-titled EP, there were already some innovative hints of what was to come in the next couple of years. Born by Evil Blood is their second EP, and it's significantly more extreme metal-leaning.

Painkiller wrote:

The black/thrash metal hybrid may carry clear punk elements, but it's still a separate area. The biggest difference in that being that there's more metal than merely punk, coupled by the fact that black metal is as non-punk as you can get in metal. While the aggression itself is borrowed from hardcore bands, the atmosphere is completely different.

If we were debating pure thrash metal and punk, then it'd be harder to distinguish the bands that played both genres. I think that even by 1985, Sabbat wasn't your run-of-the-mill metal band, as contrary to your actual opinion of the self-titled EP, there were already some innovative hints of what was to come in the next couple of years. Born by Evil Blood is their second EP, and it's significantly more extreme metal-leaning.

Second wave black metal totally rejected it's punk roots, first wave bands like Venom, Sodom, Destruction (yes I class them as first wave BM as well as thrash) Bathory and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost all completely embraced punk, added to this Discharge incorporated a lot of metal into what they did and were not a pure punk band (how many punk bands had that many guitar solos?)

You have to put all of this in context. I got into this stuff as a 13 year old and trust me the only places you could buy any of these records were from punk record shops. If you have ever tried to buy an album from those kind of guys you will know that you wouldn't get out of the place until they had educated you on the fact that Celtic Frost & Bathory owed a huge debt to Discharge and The Amebix.

So we can agree to disagree but I still think it's pretty funny 

Yeah, let's go with UK's Sabbat instead.

I don't do these polls, but Jap Sabbat kicks all kinds of ass. I've been trying to collect more of their stuff, but man do they release a lot of splits & EPs. I have the same problem with Agathocles.

I like both about the same.