Flippers!

I couldn't think of a better title for this thread. The whole first press, die hard edition thing has become big news among record collectors and overall, I think that it's a good thing, it gives those who like the bands an opportunity to own something rare and a bit special by the bands that they love, but I can't help but wonder if it's getting to a point where people are getting exploited by dealers and Ebayers whose sole mission in life is to hoover up these special editions and then sell them on instantly with a fantastic mark up.

As some will be aware, I've been on a real retro kick just lately and two of the bands that I'm into are Uncle Acid and Purson, both have records out this month and I'd set my heart on trying to get Die Hard copies, not because they will be worth loads, but because I REALLY DIG THESE BANDS! Well I checked the website (as I have done at least once a day for weeks now to find that they were now taking pre orders for the Die Hard editions of these records. The Uncle Acid discs were completely sold out (not a massive surprise) I managed to get hold of the Black vinyl (which also sold out in hours) and Purple vinyl on the Purson disc, but again I was too late to snag the Clear vinyl.

At first I wasn't too disappointed, they are extremely limited releases (100 black, 100 clear 200 purple on both albums) and both bands have a good number of real fans. I was just a bit too late. Later I went onto ebay though and saw that this really wasn't the case as these records were all over the place at ridiculous prices! (One guy was trying to charge £400 for the Uncle Acid record, that he bought for £25 hours before and hadn't even taken delivery of!)

Now part of me thinks that this is just old fashioned capitalism, supply and demand, if you can get that much, good luck to you. But another part of me thinks that these people who obviously don't care about the music exploiting people who care enough to pay crazy money.

I think that maybe it would be a better idea to just sell these mega limited editions at gigs, a reward to those who could actually be bothered to support the bands and their local music scene.

What do people think? Is it just a part of life these days or greedy idiots ruining something good?

Wherever there is money to he made, someone will always try to capitalize on it.

Welcome to capitalism and the law of supply and demand. If you don't want to pay the prices, you don't have to and the price will come down due to lack of demand. I am a vinyl collector myself, but I don't have to have the rarest color vinyl of a particular release. I just think colored vinyl looks cool. Also, many people believe that black vinyl sounds better than colored vinyl. I don't know if that's true but it's something to consider.

Haha! I have no intention of paying those prices. I find it difficult to understand anyone who would. I'll get an early regular press of the Uncle Acid record when that gets released. (There will be various colors)

The one thing that has crossed my mind is that it's pretty clever marketing. The fact that the first record has now become so valuable has gotten the band a lot of publicity and given them a certain status. This might be why labels are now making die hard editions in tiny numbers.

It just bothers me a bit that the only people who end up making money are the people who only care about the money, but that's often true in life!

I'm afraid Witchfinder is right. As much as I also dislike the overpricing of rare and out of print items, it is ultimately the law of supply and demand.

At some point you need to make peace with yourself about what version you can buy. I don't think it is just the ebayers but even labels are to be blamed. It has become common for labels to sell a regular version of the album and a special edition. Usually the special edition will at best have a bonus song, but more often it will just be a bunch of live songs, demos and from time to time a making of video or a clip of the latest single. The special edition will usually cost 10 bucks more than the regular edition, and for an extra song or some throw away material that is simply not worth it.

Sure if the special edition has a live DVD or a live album as a second disc I will get it but otherwise, I have made peace with myself that I can live without an extra song (that may not even be that good). To that extent (though I have not yet done so) I could just legally download the bonus song off itunes or spotify. Not ideal but for the extra 10 bucks I could get another new album by another band.

With Record Store Day approaching I'm always reminded of the flippers who come in and grab everything. Really annoying, but I'm more annoyed at the stores (Zia Records I'm looking at you) who don't do limits per customer. The one thing I have found is patience pays off. Seems like the days of sellers commanding crazy prices has ended. Not on everything unfortunately, but overall I've gotten some insane deals on stuff that was well in the hundreds months ago. The trend I've seen is the collector prices (or what people are willing to actually pay) are coming down.

That said, I have always felt if someone is willing to pay then you should get what they are willing to part with. Annoying for the fans but it is all fair game in my opinion.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that I have some great conflict going on. My only gripe is ridiculous profiteering by people who don't care about music. But honestly, I'm sleeping just fine!

TBH If I ever hit financial dire straights and need to have a sale, I'll be pretty happy for some of the crazy prices. But I'm not making a business out of it.

@ Jstate I agree with you that if people are willing to pay crazy money then I suppose it's fair enough, but it does encourage these people to come in and buy everything up.

When I lived back east the big local independent chain Record & Tape Traders would once a year have a buy one get two sale. There would be these dealers (rumored to be from NY) who would come in and buy full shopping carts full of stuff. The only issue was they had this huge fat guy who would stand and block the racks for the sole purpose of allowing his coworkers to go through the stuff first. They would also use their carts to block off whole sections. Nobody else had a fair chance at the stuff. Luckily for me this was at the height of the alternative craze so that was what they were primarily going for.

A couple of years back Amoeba had a "garage sale" in their parking garage. First off, try reading cd spines in a poorly lit parking garage. Probably why they never did that again. But the flippers there had scanner bars that they used when going through everything. They were like robots going through it all. It looked like the most joyless music buying experience you could have. But at least they left behind enough stuff for me to find.

Quote :

TBH If I ever hit financial dire straights and need to have a sale,

This is one of the reasons I'll never truly go all digital. I like the idea that I own something physical and can sell it if need be.

I'm really quite ashamed of myself!

It kind of went like this, got an unexpectedly large bonus from work, decided that I really deserved a treat, and well, you remember from earlier in this thread that I said that I had set my heart on a die hard copy of the Uncle Acid record but had been too late.

Well a copy came up on eBay at a ludicrous (although not as bad as some I've seen) price, clear vinyl 100 copy ltd edition and I just got a rush of blood to the head and went for it and bought it, for £135!! (that's $209 U.S)

So after all of my complaints about record flippers, I've just put £100 profit directly into the hands of one

But I got my vinyl, which is the important thing.

The rest is just details!

I still think that profiteering like this sucks! But while there are suckers (like me! ) out there willing to pay it. They will continue I suppose.

Good evening, fellow capitalists!

Indeed, the only "regulating" the market will ultimately benefit from is people being more intelligent - e.g., individual and independent - on their own time, person by person. Informed decision making, and therefore, purchasing, comes from being informed. Until then we can at least still buy or not buy. Hopefully, more people purchase records by more bands so there's less "need" to spice things up or break even with X amount of overpriced special editions all of the time, that stuff should really just be for bands where the fans just gobble up everything there is no matter what, like KISS.

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:

Good evening, fellow capitalists!

The Commies tried for years, but in the end, free market capitalism was defeated by four words! (To big to fail) We're into something different now.

But I'll get off that one before S.D reminds me that this is a music forum

I know that I should be more mature about this at my age but once I get it into my head that I want something, I just want it. I also really don't see the price of this one coming down any time soon so I just went for it. It just would have bothered me until I caved in.

I've wasted a lot more money on a lot less worthy things over the years I suppose.

Boris2008 wrote:

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:

Good evening, fellow capitalists!

The Commies tried for years, but in the end, free market capitalism was defeated by four words! (To big to fail) We're into something different now.

I'll have to agree with you on that one!

For a limited edition of only a 100 you gotta go, what you gotta do. At least it got a good home that appreciates it. Plus I'm sure something like that will quickly increase in price. Also it's hard to get too annoyed with a flipper who ends up selling at under market prices. Enjoy the score.

jstate wrote:

For a limited edition of only a 100 you gotta go, what you gotta do. At least it got a good home that appreciates it. Plus I'm sure something like that will quickly increase in price. Also it's hard to get too annoyed with a flipper who ends up selling at under market prices. Enjoy the score.

He sent it next day recorded delivery at his cost too.

Nice. A good flipper exists! Now be careful playing it.

The ghouls are out in FORCE tonight! Bowie's Blackstar came out three days ago. I scored a clear vinyl copy with limited edition lithographs for £45 ($65)

Now with todays news  people think that this is a reasonable asking price 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAVID-BOWIE-BLACKSTAR-DELUXE-LIMITED-CLEAR-VINYL-LP-3-LITHOGRAPHS/161944045359?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D4984223095b1461bb6d33cf7bcadcbb7%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D161944045359

Yeah, that would be $800!!!

I think that this may be asking too much but tbh I'm not sure, someone had one up for £350 and it sold in a few minutes!

Either way, my copy is MINE and it's going to stay that way.

Boris2008 wrote:

The ghouls are out in FORCE tonight! Bowie's Blackstar came out three days ago. I scored a clear vinyl copy with limited edition lithographs for £45 ($65)

Now with todays news  people think that this is a reasonable asking price 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAVID-BOWIE-BLACKSTAR-DELUXE-LIMITED-CLEAR-VINYL-LP-3-LITHOGRAPHS/161944045359?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D4984223095b1461bb6d33cf7bcadcbb7%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D161944045359

Yeah, that would be $800!!!

I think that this may be asking too much but tbh I'm not sure, someone had one up for £350 and it sold in a few minutes!

Either way, my copy is MINE and it's going to stay that way.

Yeah, they apparently were not asking too much, that one sold really quickly and they are now selling for £650 ($938) on the auction price.