Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:47 am
Fat Freddy wrote:
It's still cool that you got to meet him. (and I wouldn't pay $8 for a jar of sauce either!)
When I met Marky w/the rest of the Ramones back in 1992, it didn't occur to my friend and I that maybe we should've brought a camera till we'd already gotten their autographs and were on our way out the door. Then suddenly it hit us like "D'OH!"
...I blame the pretty major ragin' malt liquor habit that I had goin' on back then.
I'll blame the 4 year old tugging on my arm. "Are we done yet? I'm bored. How many cds are in this place? Just pick one and let's go!!"
And try to explain to a kid that the toys on display aren't to play with.
_________________ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too.
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:50 am
Quote :
"Are we done yet? I'm bored. How many cds are in this place? Just pick one and let's go!!"
That sounds awfully familiar.
Dang kids. Can't live with'em, can't put 'em in a box and ship'em to Antarctica.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
manny mini boss
Number of posts : 21101 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:53 am
Fat Freddy wrote:
Quote :
"Are we done yet? I'm bored. How many cds are in this place? Just pick one and let's go!!"
That sounds awfully familiar.
Dang kids. Can't live with'em, can't put 'em in a box and ship'em to Antarctica.
Been there many times myself!!!
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:18 am
The Ramones hooked up with ex-Plasmatic Jean Beauvoir to produce Animal Boy, released in May of 1986. The album is another collection of hard edged punk/power pop that basically picks up where the preceding Too Tough To Die left off.
The album's release was preceded by 1985's controversial Bonzo Goes to Bitburg single, Joey's indictment of then-President Ronald Reagan's visit to a German cemetery where members of the Nazi SS were buried. It was only released as a single in the U.K., as the band's American label thought it was "too political," but the song got major play on American college radio as an import. The track surprised a lot of long time Ramones fans since the band was not generally known for taking a political stance in their music. Even within the band members, the song was troublesome. Joey and Johnny (a staunch Republican and Reagan supporter) fought bitterly over the song's title (Johnny felt that the use of the name "Bonzo" - a reference to the chimpanzee who starred with Reagan in the 1951 comedy Bedtime For Bonzo, was disrespectful to the President). When the song re-appeared on Animal Boy it had been re-named "My Brain is Hanging Upside Down," with the original title in parentheses.
"Bonzo" was not the only topical song on Animal Boy; Dee Dee contributed "Love Kills," a cautionary tale of heroin use based on the experience of his friends Sid Vicious and Nancy Spungen (he wrote the song in hopes of it being included in Alex Cox's 1986 movie Sid and Nancy, but it didn't make the cut), and the video for the album's closing ballad "Something To Believe In" was a parody of the "We Are the World" style charity records that were popular at the time, with the band and many of their celebrity friends taking part in a mock fund raiser called "Hands Across Your Face." The video includes cameos by Weird Al Yankovic, Ted Nugent, the B-52's, members of Spinal Tap, and many others.
Other (non-topical) songs on the album include the hard-driving opener "Somebody Put Something In My Drink" (written by new drummer Richie Ramone, based on personal experience when someone gave him a drink spiked with LSD) the goofball "Apeman Hop" and "Eat That Rat," and "Freak of Nature."
Animal Boy didn't set the charts ablaze, as usual (its peak Billboard position was a weak #143) but the album garnered some of the Ramones' best reviews in years, due mostly to the notoriety of "Bonzo." The track was voted the fifth best single of 1985 in the Village Voice newspaper's annual "Pazz and Jop" music poll, and Animal Boy also cleaned up at the 1986 New York Music Awards, where it won "Best Album" and "Best Single" (for "Bonzo") in addition to a nomination for "Best Video" for "Something To Believe In." (it lost to Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer.") The "Best Album" trophy can be seen in the collage of memorabilia on the cover of the 1988 compilation album Ramones Mania.
For reasons unknown, the Rhino Records series of Ramones remasters stopped with the preceding Too Tough To Die, which means that Animal Boy and the rest of the band's Sire Records output - Halfway to Sanity (1987) and Brain Drain (1989) - have never been upgraded. This is a shame, especially in the case of Animal Boy, which is a strong album that still holds up well today.
Useless trivia: the British "Bonzo" single featured a non-LP B-side called "Go Home Ann," which was written by Dee Dee and Mickey Leigh (Joey's brother) and mixed by none other than Lemmy of Motorhead. This great track has never been re-released on any Ramones compilations or Greatest Hits collections, making the "Bonzo" single a Holy Grail for collectors.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
Last edited by Fat Freddy on Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
MetalGuy71 Bukkake Tsunami
Number of posts : 25557 Age : 53
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:50 am
Quote :
Useless trivia: the British "Bonzo" single featured a non-LP B-side called "Go Home Ann," which was written by Dee Dee and Mickey Leigh (Joey's brother) and mixed by none other than Lemmy of Motorhead. This great track has never been re-released on any Ramones compilations or Greatest Hits collections, making the "Bonzo" single a Holy Grail for collectors
I just read in 'White Line Fever', Lemmy produced this song just because Joey asked and he had nothing better to do, so he said "Sure". Classic Lemmy.
It is a good song. Shame it's never been officially released.
_________________ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too.
manny mini boss
Number of posts : 21101 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:30 am
Great album and one I have never owned, heard alot of these tunes on 'Ramones Mania' comp
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:09 pm
I think it should be mentioned that the title track "Animal Boy" is utterly badass. When I first heard that song on "Ramones Mania" it blew me away.
jstate Metal is in my blood
Number of posts : 3361 Age : 51
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:28 pm
I think that Ramones Mania disc may have sold more Ramones albums than any greatest hits collection ever.
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:44 pm
jstate wrote:
I think that Ramones Mania disc may have sold more Ramones albums than any greatest hits collection ever.
Yeah, Ramones Mania is their only Gold selling album in the U.S. ... which is kinda tragic when you think about it.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:08 am
The Ramones released their tenth studio album, Halfway to Sanity, in late 1987. Continuing in the same vein as the preceding Animal Boy and Too Tough To Die, it features a dozen tracks, split evenly between hard-edged punk rock and a few token pop tracks. The most well known song from the album is Dee Dee's moody single "I Wanna Live."
Once again, Dee Dee handled the bulk of the songwriting on Halfway, contributing the album's nastier tracks like "Worm Man," "Bop Til You Drop" and the ridiculous "Weasel Face" in addition to the atmospheric "Garden of Serenity." Dee Dee also sings lead vocals on his "I Lost My Mind." Drummer Richie penned two songs, the thrashing "I'm Not Jesus" (one of the album's highlights) and the middling "I Know Better Now." As was becoming customary, Joey's offerings were the more pop oriented tracks, like the 60s flavored "Go Lil' Camaro Go" (which features Debbie Harry of Blondie on backing vocals) and "A Real Cool Time."
By this point the Ramones were no longer releasing albums in the hopes of scoring a hit; the records were basically an excuse for them to get back out on tour again. Halfway to Sanity managed a weak #172 on Billboard before sinking beneath the waves, but the band's reputation as a solid live act continued as they approached their 15th anniversary together. However, major changes were on the horizon.
Richie Ramone abruptly left the band in mid-1987 prior to the tour for the Halfway album; he later stated that he was tired of being treated like a hired gun rather than a full fledged member despite his songwriting contributions. The last straw for Richie was when Johnny refused to increase his cut of the Ramones' t-shirt and merchandise proceeds (which, by this point, were more profitable for the band than record sales). With a tour looming and desperate to replace Richie quickly, the Ramones performed two shows with Clem Burke of Blondie behind the skins (using the alias "Elvis Ramone") that were, by all accounts, utter disasters. Soon afterwards they welcomed a now-sober Marky Ramone back into the band.
1987 also marked Dee Dee Ramone's first release as a solo artist - a truly bizarre rap single (!) called "Funky Man" under the stage name "Dee Dee King."
Legend has it that Dee Dee became interested in rap music during a stint in rehab, where several of his roommates turned him onto hip-hop. Whether "Funky Man" is intended to be tongue-in-cheek or a serious attempt at moving into the rap world, the fact remains that as white rappers go, Dee Dee made Vanilla Ice sound like Chuck D.
Dee Dee's newfound interest in rap music puzzled his band mates and often put him at odds with them, as he would show up for Ramones gigs wearing full "rap regalia" (track suits, gold chains, lots of watches on his wrists etc.) rather than the expected "uniform" of leather jacket and jeans. As a result, Dee Dee began to feel "pigeonholed" by his membership in the Ramones; that and the fact that he'd been carrying the bulk of the songwriting load for the last several Ramones albums eventually led to his exit from the band in 1989.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
manny mini boss
Number of posts : 21101 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:13 am
Another great album I do not own
MetalGuy71 Bukkake Tsunami
Number of posts : 25557 Age : 53
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:44 pm
Anyone that says "Rapping is easy. Anyone can do it" should listen to Dee Dee King. He's proof that it's just not true. Ooooo-faaaa!!
Halfway to Sanity is a decent album though.
_________________ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too.
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:27 am
1988's Ramones Mania was the first of many "Greatest Hits" packages from the band.
As I mentioned in the entry for the Rock N Roll High School film, I was a latecomer to the Ramones. I knew some of their songs from MTV and from seeing the movie a couple of times, but I was never more than a casual fan. By late '87/early '88, however, I'd recorded the movie from TV and found myself watching the concert sequences over and over again, saying "Damn, these guys kick ass, I gotta get some of their stuff." Lo and behold, Mania had just been released at that time so I picked it up. For a newbie, Ramones Mania was a great starting point. My brother and I both fell in love with it immediately and played it incessantly throughout the summer of '88. Naturally we wanted to hear more so we started scrounging used record stores to pick up as much of their back catalog as we could get our hands on. Within six months we'd collected every one of their previous albums. So yeah, we got caught up quickly!
Ramones Mania features a total of 30 cuts that encompasses their entire catalog. All of the obvious "hits" are here ("Blitzkrieg Bop," "Teenage Lobotomy," "Do You Remember Rock N Roll Radio," etc.) with a healthy dose of "deep cuts" as well. One "new" track is also included - a cover of 1910 Fruitgum Company's "Indian Giver," (which had been the B-side to a U.K. single for "A Real Cool Time" in '87) to snooker the diehards who already had all of their other stuff into buying this collection.
During my freshman year of college (October of 1988) I got to see the Ramones live for the first time in a scummy little dive in Staten Island, New York. The sound was terrible but the band crushed. It was my first show in a small club, and therefore my first mosh pit experience (ouch!) as well. Dee Dee announced that he was leaving the band a few months later so I feel lucky that I got the chance to see the "classic" lineup of the band at least once. Needless to say I will treasure the memory of that gig till the day I die.
In the years since Ramones Mania was released the band's catalog has been raped more often than a drunken hippo at a frat party with a seemingly endless stream of additional "hits" and "live" compilations, some more complete than others. It may be just the nostalgia talking but I still feel Ramones Mania is the best of the bunch.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
MetalGuy71 Bukkake Tsunami
Number of posts : 25557 Age : 53
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:38 am
I believe that disc was more-or-less my introduction to the band. I knew of them and heard some songs here and there, but never bothered investigating any further. A dude I went to college with introduced me to their music (and other punk).
I'm pretty sure I picked this collection up dirt cheap in a used shop and for awhile it was my only Ramones disc. As time when on I'd pick up a few more and when I got their 2 disc anthology, this disc fell to the wayside. I still have it in my collection, but it's been ages since it got any play since I've got everything on it elsewhere.
No longer an essential purchase, but still, I'd recommend it as a decent introduction to the band. 1 disc, 30 hits. What more could you ask for?
By the way, Road to Ruin is spinning as I type this. I think this one is becomeing my favorite.
_________________ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too.
manny mini boss
Number of posts : 21101 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:10 pm
This was the first Ramones disc I bought on CD, thanks to Columbia House. I had already owned 'Too Tough to Die' and the self titled debut, so this was a great way to get all the classics on one disc.
Kick ass rock n roll, 'nuff said.
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:07 am
The Ramones' eleventh studio album, Brain Drain was released in March of 1989. Produced by avant-garde rocker Bill Laswell, once again it signaled major changes in the band's camp. Most shockingly, Dee Dee left the Ramones shortly after the album's release, citing the toxic work environment within the band. In his book Lobotomy: Surviving the Ramones, Dee Dee says recording the album was "tough" because "everybody took their sh*t out on me," to the point where he "dreaded" being around the other members. Even though he may not have left on the best of terms, Dee Dee would continue contributing songs to the Ramones till the end of their career. Brain Drain would also be the final studio album released on the band's long time home of Sire Records. At the time of its release, rumors persisted that it was going to be their last album ever, though obviously in time those were proved false.
Dee Dee was replaced by Christopher Joseph Ward, henceforth known as "C.J. Ramone." C.J. was a fellow native of Queens, New York, and a former member of the United States Marine Corps prior to joining the band. Legend has it that he actually went AWOL from the Marines in order to audition for the Ramones, and that once he'd gotten the gig, they had to wait for him to be released from a military stockade before he could be announced as the new bassist. From the time he joined till the end of the Ramones' career, C.J. would sing the songs that Dee Dee used to perform in live sets. C.J. was almost a decade younger than his new band mates and was often credited with bringing youthful spirit back into the band.
The best remembered track on Brain Drain is "Pet Sematary," which was written for the 1989 film version of Stephen King's book. (Stephen King is a big Ramones fan and had mentioned the band by name in the original novel.) "Sematary" became a minor hit for the band, achieving a decent amount of radio play, reached #4 on the Billboard Modern Rock Tracks chart and went on to become a live-set staple during the latter portion of the band's career.
In addition to the end-credit them, "Sheena Is a Punk Rocker" is also heard in the movie, during the scene when the main character's son is killed by a tractor trailer - the truck driver is listening to it on the radio when he hits the kid.
"I Believe in Miracles" and "Merry Christmas (I Don't Want To Fight Tonight)" were also released as singles from Brain Drain, which performed slightly better on Billboard than the last few albums, achieving a chart high of #122.
(Note that while Dee Dee appears in the "Pet Sematery" video, C.J. had officially taken his place by the time the other two vids were shot.)
Brain Drain is far from a perfect album (aside from the three tracks released as singles and the cover of Freddy Cannon's "Palisades Park," there's an awful lot of filler on it) but it helped raise the band's profile higher than it had been for a number of years. As the "alternative" scene was beginning to gain prominence in the mainstream, the Ramones were regularly credited as being "elder statesmen" of that genre.
Meanwhile, over in Dee Dee Ramone's corner... 1989 also marked the release of his debut album as a solo artist, Standing in the Spotlight.
Inspired by his 1987 "Funky Man" single, the songs on Standing in the Spotlight are an uncomfortable mix of hip-hop, '50s doo-wop, and unremarkable rock and roll. It may have been fun for Dee Dee to make but it certainly isn't much fun to listen to. I heard it once when it was a new release, cringed, and have never bothered with it again.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
MetalGuy71 Bukkake Tsunami
Number of posts : 25557 Age : 53
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:24 am
'Pet Sematary' is one of my favorite Ramones tunes. I remember being disappointed when I purchased the Ramones Mania disc that 'Pet Sematary' wasn't on it.
'Merry Christmas' is another great holiday tune. There's a couple of other tunes I like on there too. 'Don't Bust My Chops', 'Ignorance is Bliss'. I like Brain Drain.
_________________ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too.
manny mini boss
Number of posts : 21101 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:58 pm
I like the album I think a bit more then you did FF, but have to agree it was not their finest hour or 45 minutes or whatever it was, but still a cool little album to blast to which I think I will.
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:53 am
In response to renewed interest in the Ramones' classic material during the rise of the Alternative wave, 1990 marked the release of a pair of compilation albums: ALL THE STUFF (AND MORE!) Volumes 1 and 2.
Volume 1 featured the Ramones' first two albums (Ramones and Leave Home) compiled on one disc, followed by Rocket To Russia and Road To Ruin on Volume 2. Both compilations featured a number of rare and previously-unreleased studio tracks at the end of each album to sweeten the deal for collectors ("I Don't Wanna Be Learned/I Don't Wanna Be Tamed" and "I Can't Be" on Volume 1 and "Slug," the long-lost "Babysitter," and "I Want You Around (Original Version)" on Volume 2). A couple of additional live songs were also added to round out each disc.
Both of these compilations came in handy back when I was collecting the Ramones' early catalog and of course getting two albums for the price of a single disc was a nice bargain as well. Obviously the bonus tracks were the main selling point at the time, but since all of these rarities (plus lots more) were recycled onto the far superior Rhino Records remasters of the individual studio albums in the early '00s, the All The Stuff comps are more or less obsolete nowadays.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
manny mini boss
Number of posts : 21101 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:12 pm
I almost these CD's many many times, and they can found on Amazon dirt cheap, when the label started releasing the albums individually, I went that route instead
MetalGuy71 Bukkake Tsunami
Number of posts : 25557 Age : 53
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:25 pm
I had seen them many times myself but just assumed they were Greatest Hits albums. Since I already owned Ramones Mania and their Anthology discs at the time, I never gave those albums the time of day. I'm glad I didn't waste any money on them.
_________________ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too.
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:57 am
U.S. Cover
European Cover
1991's Loco Live was the Ramones' second live release, coming fifteen years after the It's Alive album. Taped in Barcelona, Spain in 1990, it marked C.J.'s first recording with the band.
The band was coming to the end of its contract with long time label home Sire Records at the time this album was released, thus Loco Live was the Ramones' last Sire release in the U.S. Loco Live was released in Europe on their new label, Chrysalis Records. The U.S. and Euro versions have different covers and slightly different track listings. "Carbona Not Glue" was snuck into the set on the U.S. edition but it's not listed on the back of the album.
I haven't heard this one in awhile so I really have nothin' tp say about it except that it's a solid live set and I really need to upgrade it to CD one of these damn days!!
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
manny mini boss
Number of posts : 21101 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:06 am
I have never owned this disc, but I will add to my never ending want list.
MetalGuy71 Bukkake Tsunami
Number of posts : 25557 Age : 53
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:42 am
I had that album on cassette. After I got a taste for these guys on RamonesMania, someone told me "You gotta hear them live for the full effect". I can't remember if I bought it or someone gave it to me. And yea, it's good. However, the tape is long gone and it's doubtful I'll bother to upgrade to cd at this point. Unless I find a copy at a flea market for like a buck or something.
I have 2 live albums from the Ramones already. It's Alive covers their early, raw, hungry years and We're Outta Here closes out their legacy nicely, so this seems redundant.
_________________ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too.
Fat Freddy Metal, Movies, Beer
Number of posts : 37962 Age : 54
Subject: Re: RAMONES discography Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:52 pm
1992's Mondo Bizarro was the Ramones' 12th studio album and was their first release on their new U.S. label - Radioactive Records, a start-up company owned by their manager, Gary Kurfirst. It's also C.J. Ramone's first studio recording with the band. The first single/video was for the track "Poison Heart," which served as the end-credit theme to the film "Pet Sematery 2."
Mondo Bizarro has some cool tracks on it but at the same time I've always suspected that the band used this album to clean out their closets and use up some old, unused stuff. The opening track "Censorshit," for example, is a rant about Tipper Gore and the PMRC. Yeah, it's catchy as hell, but it was hopelessly out of date at the time this album was released (1992). Likewise, the album's closing track, "Touring," is an updated version of a song that was demo'd for Pleasant Dreams way back in 1981 (the original demo, titled "Touring, Touring," appears on the Rhino Records remaster of P.D.) I have always wondered how many of the songs in between were of similar, shall we say, "vintage."
Despite my suspicions of recycling, Mondo Bizarro does feature a lot of decent stuff, including a way-cool cover of the Doors' "Take It As It Comes" and the hilarious "Cabbies on Crack," which features a guest guitar solo by Vernon Reid of Living Colour fame. Former Turtles/Mothers of Invention members "Flo and Eddie" pop in to contribute backing vocals to the Doors cover and "Touring."
When the Ramones played at the Hollywood Palladium in support of Mondo Bizarro in late '92, Doors guitarist Robbie Krieger joined them onstage to perform "Take It As It Comes" with them.
Even though he'd been out of the band for several years by this point, Dee Dee Ramone wrote three songs on Mondo Bizarro - "Poison Heart," "Main Man," and "Strength To Endure," reportedly to repay the band for bailing him out of jail after a drug bender. "Main Man" and "Strength To Endure" were sung by new bassist C.J., who had a gravelly vocal delivery similar to his predecessor.
All in all, I'd rank Mondo Bizarro as a stronger effort than the preceding Brain Drain. The addition of C.J. to the lineup definitely gave them a much needed shot of youthful energy that helped carry them through the next several years.
This album is also a sentimental favorite of mine because I met the band at an album release party/signing session for it at an "HMV" record store in New York City in the Fall of 1992. Needless to say, meeting the legendary Ramones was a HUGE fanboy moment for me, and my Mondo Bizarro insert that was signed by all four members is my most prized rock n roll collectible. I want that thing buried with me when I die.
_________________ "If you're a false, don't entry, because you'll be burned and died!"
Last edited by Fat Freddy on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:53 pm; edited 2 times in total