If you thought Rock N Roll started in the 50's...you was misinformed

Louis Jordan

One more, this song even features the Chuck Berry style guitar solo....10 years before Chuck started recording.

Ain't That Just Like A Woman

I can't see Youtube at work, and the fileden file doesn't work.

SpectreFate wrote:

I can't see Youtube at work, and the fileden file doesn't work.

I just fixed the fileden file. Try it now.

detuned wrote:

One more, this song even features the Chuck Berry style guitar solo....10 years before Chuck started recording.

Ain't That Just Like A Woman

Great song. Is that late 40's?

SpectreFate wrote:

detuned wrote:

One more, this song even features the Chuck Berry style guitar solo....10 years before Chuck started recording.

Ain't That Just Like A Woman

Great song. Is that late 40's?

1946 on Decca Records. The guitarist was a guy named Carl Hogan, who Chuck Berry listed as a direct influence. Louis Jordan's records were REALLY the start of rock n roll...even though they called it "jump blues" at the time.

Okay, I lied...here's one more Louis Jordan song from 1946. Fans of the movie "The Blues Brothers" should recognize this as the song Elwood plays for Jake when they first get to Elwood's apartment (hey you sleaze, my bed!)

Let The Good Times Roll

I know you said "jump blues", but what is this music catagorized as? Is it jazz, blues, race music?

"Jump Blues" was an actual term that was used, although anything released on Decca in the 30's and 40's was referred to as "race music" usually.

This style of music is really the start of R&B. It was a combination of jazz, black church music (they called it "the baptist beat") and blues. This would lead directly to people like Ray Charles, Big Joe Turner, Chuck Berry & Little Richard.

detuned wrote:

"Jump Blues" was an actual term that was used, although anything released on Decca in the 30's and 40's was referred to as "race music" usually.

This style of music is really the start of R&B. It was a combination of jazz, black church music (they called it "the baptist beat") and blues. This would lead directly to people like Ray Charles, Big Joe Turner, Chuck Berry & Little Richard.

Gotcha. I actually find this stuff fascinating.

So was Chuck Berry the first person they referred to as "rock n roll" or was that Little Richard? I always heard it was Little Richard.

detuned wrote:

Okay, I lied...here's one more Louis Jordan song from 1946. Fans of the movie "The Blues Brothers" should recognize this as the song Elwood plays for Jake when they first get to Elwood's apartment (hey you sleaze, my bed!)

Let The Good Times Roll

I think that might have been the Ray Charles version used in the movie.

Well, the actual beginning of the term "rock n roll" is always a bit of contention. Of course it's really a euphemism for the horizontal dance. There were numerous songs with the term "rock" or "roll" in the title prior to the mid 50's...Shake, Rattle & Roll by Big Joe Turner for example.

Bill Haley & The Comets of course covered this tune and I think they got coined as "rock n roll" when the movie Blackboard Jungle came out. Of course all Bill Haley was doing was copying black music from the late 40's and early 50's.

But they were white...so they could get away with it.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I think that might have been the Ray Charles version used in the movie.

It's definitely the Louis Jordan version, you can even read the Decca Records label when Elwood puts it on the turntable.

detuned wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I think that might have been the Ray Charles version used in the movie.

It's definitely the Louis Jordan version, you can even read the Decca Records label when Elwood puts it on the turntable.

All righty then. I'll take your word for it. I got no reason to argue. Too tired this morning.

From our friends at Wikipedia:

The line "commence to rock and roll" appeared in the swing tune "Get
Rhythm in Your Feet and Music in Your Soul" recorded by Benny Goodman
and his orchestra in July 1935. Three different songs with the title
"Rock and Roll" were recorded in the late 1940s; one by Paul Bascomb in
1947, another by Wild Bill Moore
in 1948, and yet another by Doles Dickens in 1949, and the phrase was
in constant use in the lyrics of R&B songs of the time. One such
record where the phrase was repeated throughout the song was "Rock and
Roll Blues," recorded in 1949 by Erline "Rock and Roll" Harris. The phrase was also included in advertisements for the film Wabash Avenue, starring Betty Grable and Victor Mature.
An ad for the movie that ran April 12, 1950 billed Ms. Grable as "the
first lady of rock and roll" and Wabash Avenue as "the roaring street
she rocked to fame".

Trying to name/define the very 1st "rock n' roll song" is as futile as trying to define what is or isn't "metal".

Good job on this thread though, De. I too find it facinating.

I can only get dial up here at home so I can't post it but youtube Sister Rosetta Tharpe, she is a great guitar player from way back in the day.

I knew it was the 40s.But heck even before.Blues.

I love watching documentaries about "race music"

From the roots of Delta Blues and the various forms of Jazz from N' orleans to Chicago in the early parts of the 20th century to the middle part of the century.

Right now I am a kick of collecting old 78 rpm records
Buying a stack "blind" and bringing it home for a virgin listen is
loads of fun. The tech was poor, but the performances are amazing. One take and out the door. What a paln.

There was always a side of jazz and swing music that was grittier than what "polite society" would listen to (or should listen to!) Listening "between the lines" to many of the old lyrics reveals a "nudge nudge wink wink, no what I mean?" kind of approach with double entendre galore! Great stuff! Look up the terminology that gave Jelly Roll Morton his name some time!

BTW, "jazz" was a euphemism for the same thing that " rock and roll" was!

That's some great stuff Detuned, can definately hear the influence Carl Hogan's playing had on Chuck Berry.

You could name select songs by Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Bob Wills, Louis Jordan, Hank Williams etc etc etc as the start of rock n' roll in the 30's and 40's but i think it's futile to name any one song/artist as the exact point when rock n' roll started (like with any other music style, music doesn't adhere to a strict/straight flow chart/timeline), it was a gradual evolution and then in the mid 50's it was there.......although i think with Little Richard's "Tutti Frutti" that things really changed, the aggression, outrageousness and attitude (which is what rock n' roll is more than any certain sound/music) of it really set the standard for rock n' roll to come.

One of the other missing pieces of the puzzle was T-Bone Walker, his guitar style was very influential on all the 50's rock players...plus he brought in some of the "wild man" aggression.

Here's a prime example, listen to the guitar riffs (very Chuck Berry...especially the little start/stop licks) and check out the scream at :40 into the tune. This kind of stuff makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck...in a GOOD way!


T-Bone Walker - You Don't Love Me

(p.s. - the tenor sax player is a total badass named Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis)

T-Bone Walker is one of my faves, he influenced a lot of blues players from the 50's too like Otis Rush, Buddy Guy, etc.