I think thrash fans and musicians have forgotten the power

... of a great guitar solo.

It hit me yesterday when listening to "Hit the Lights".

Seems like folks are always talking about vocals, production, riffs, speed, heaviness, etc. ...

But the killer solo too often gets overlooked.

Just think about how much certain well-written and well-played solos enhanced songs like "Hit the Lights", "Over the Wall", "Through Eyes of Glass", "World Circus", "Hangar 18", etc.

It's not about technique alone, it's about creating great instrumental sections that command one's attention. Anyone who writes great solos off as "wanking" doesn't know what they are talking about and is probably tone deaf.

Questions for the class:
1. Do you agree that solos are under-appreciated in metal reviews, forum discussions, etc.?
2. If so, why do you think this is?
3. What are some of the best solos of the new school of thrash? Maybe some stuff by Ol Drake?
4. How great do you think classic thrash would've been if it had no solos at all?
5. How great do you think classic thrash would've been if every thrash band played in Hanneman/King's style of random, off-key notes picked really fast?

I immediately think about the solos in Trapped Under Ice.

I think Hanneman/King get dumped on too often, their guitar solos COMPLETELY fit Slayer's music. Atonality adds an extra level of aggression that pushes the envelope even further out.

1. I guess you can say that
2. Just being polite agreeing with you
3. Mmm, I'd go with Reign of Fury, they have some smoking solos on their new album "World Detonation"
4. I really don't know. Slayer definitely would have benefited from it though, haha.
5. Slayer made it pretty big, so I guess it would have been okay.

As far as I'm concerned the noisier and more visceral the guitar solo in thrash the better. Whether we're talking about Hanneman/King, Bobby from Overkill, Chris Poland in Megadeth, Larry LaLonde in Possessed, Tom Warrior in Celtic Frost, Piggy in Voivod...give me the "outside" stuff any day of the week.

I agree that a well-played solo can put a great song over the top. I always notice when a song doesn't have a solo, as to me it feels like something is missing. I also always notice when a solo REALLY fits the song it's in, as it enhances the tune.

I will also READILY agree that it's not based on technique alone. I've had many a discussion with mates about how solos fit into songs. Hell, if technique was all there is to it Yngwie would be the bloody king, but if you ask me, the man couldn't make a solo actually FIT a song to save his life (he treats music as an excuse to shred, IMO).

As to your questions:

1. I think it depends on the reviewer. Some reviewers only look at the music as a whole. Some break it down piece by piece. Personally, I prefer those that break it down individually.

2. See response to #1.

3. I would say Ol Drake is one of the better lead players from the new crop. I'd have to give it some thought as to who else can really make a solid solo and fit it to the tune.

4. This question is hard to answer as we have the blessing of hindsight. We can look back on the "golden era", as it were, and enjoy the solos there. How would we look at it without solos? Can't say, as it didn't happen. Maybe we would think it's "normal" if there were no solos. However, when I listen to classic rock, some jazz, etc. I always notice when there is a well played solo present, so maybe I wouldn't have thought it normal if classic thrash albums were sans lead work....

5. I think it would be odd if every band played like Hanneman/King and their off-kilter style. Solos have to fit the music they are played to. Hanneman and King play solos that fit Slayer's style, if you ask me. Their lead work wouldn't fit into an Annihilator song, just like Jeff's lead work wouldn't have worked for Demolition Hammer. It all depends on the style of tune.

1. Underappreciated yes but not always overlooked.
2. Because people really don't give a shit anymore
3. Lots to name.
4. Woulda sucked!
5. Would have been stale.

I can't really comment and be solely talking about thrash, but I do agree. As for #5, it doesn't all need to be anything, be it all dissonant, all slow, all fast, all anthemic, all anything...it just needs to engage me and put me in commute with what the musician is saying.

SideShowDisaSter wrote:

I will also READILY agree that it's not based on technique alone. I've had many a discussion with mates about how solos fit into songs. Hell, if technique was all there is to it Yngwie would be the bloody king, but if you ask me, the man couldn't make a solo actually FIT a song to save his life (he treats music as an excuse to shred, IMO).

While I agree that Yngwie sometimes goes overboard, his solo in "I Am A Viking" is completely brilliant. It's a great example of how good he can be at writing solos.

Yes

Fav solos of the stuff mentioned would be Megadeth's Hanger #18

SideShowDisaSter wrote:

Hell, if technique was all there is to it Yngwie would be the bloody king, but if you ask me, the man couldn't make a solo actually FIT a song to save his life (he treats music as an excuse to shred, IMO).

"People kept on telling me to slow down. Remember, less is more. I always said how can that be. How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more."
-Yngwie Malmsteen

I love that quote

Rami Airola wrote:

SideShowDisaSter wrote:

Hell, if technique was all there is to it Yngwie would be the bloody king, but if you ask me, the man couldn't make a solo actually FIT a song to save his life (he treats music as an excuse to shred, IMO).

"People kept on telling me to slow down. Remember, less is more. I always said how can that be. How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more."
-Yngwie Malmsteen

I love that quote

Fair enough, but that brings to mind an old saying: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

I mention guitar solos, or the lack thereof in my 'reviews' all the time. Frankly, I don't think it's just in thrash metal. I'm sitting here listening to Kerry Livgrin's Seeds of Change and the solo for "Just One Way" was playing as I read through this thread. The guitar solo can be just as important to the songwriting process as any other instrument or the vocals. Why it became 'uncool' in the 90's I don't know.

I can't speak for other bands but Ultimatum has always striven to incorporate well-played guitar solos in our songs, making them an integral part of the song. Whether they be peppered throughout the song to give the song spice, or whether there be a solo breakdown that it the peak of the song. Nothing says 'heavy metal' more than a heavy riff and a guitar solo.

It would be hard for me because the majority of the music listened to has a guitar solo in it. If a song doesn't have one, my mind usually goes to "why" or "where is it at" ?

Good doesn't (always) mean fast or technical to me. Some of the better solos are kinda/sorta a song within a song.

1)underappreciated today.
2)More importance/emphasis is placed on BPM
3)Dude from Evile is good but alot of other players are just coming into their own. Guys in Bonded By Blood, Havok and Hatchet hit it on alot of songs. (as do others)
4)I believe it wouln't of been thrash without the solos. Afterall, it was a combination of two seperate styles, punk and metal. Then expanded upon into something else. If there were no solos ( a technical aspect) Thrash would of just been a varied version of punk. IMHDO
5)Like I've already said.....different types of songs need different types of solos.

Agreed, a solo can always make a song better, though I can understand why some bands don't use them(either because they don't think it fits they're sound or because they're not very good at doing solos).

Heavy metal in general, not just thrash, has always been a great front man and a great lead guitarist, IMO. Sometimes, they are one and the same, sometimes bands have multiples of either one, but without one or the other, I have a hard time enjoying a band's output. I'm not talking about a song here or there within a greater body of work, but someone's chosen style. As for my favorite solos, mine tend to be in slower songs. Testament's "Return to Serenity," and Pantera's "Cemetery Gates" immediately came to mind. Those would definitely fall under the "less is more" philosophy. Maybe its my appreciation of jazz...

I think the solo is coming back with some of the new thrash bands but face it, it's not as important to know your instruments well.

Dark Horseman wrote:

I think the solo is coming back with some of the new thrash bands but face it, it's not as important to know your instruments well.

i agree. Solo's are not as important to me as a well done song that doesnt have one.

I enjoy both a lot though, I love those 'deth albums where Dave and Marty trade solos. I also really enjoy Queen and many of their songs don't have solos.

Solos are great when the song calls for one but I'm not of the opinion that *every* song needs one.

Temple of Blood wrote:

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Questions for the class:
1. Do you agree that solos are under-appreciated in metal reviews, forum discussions, etc.?
2. If so, why do you think this is?
3. What are some of the best solos of the new school of thrash? Maybe some stuff by Ol Drake?
4. How great do you think classic thrash would've been if it had no solos at all?
5. How great do you think classic thrash would've been if every thrash band played in Hanneman/King's style of random, off-key notes picked really fast?

1. Yes, but not necessarily at HoM.......
2. A continuation of the 90's "No Solos" ideas. Hopefully the up coming generation of musicians will bring back the solos, which means really learning how to play their instrument instead of guitarists that just learn cords and refer to solos as "wankering" and treating it like it is a bad thing. Hopefully they also learn how to tune their guitars properly too insteading of tuning down as far as possible to try and sound "heavier"
3. Not familiar enough with the new school of thrash
4. Wouldn't have been as popular.
5. It never would have happened, that's the Slayer style and it works perfectly for what Slayer is doing. SLAYEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!!!

Dark Horseman wrote:

I also really enjoy Queen and many of their songs don't have solos.

ToB's premise was regarding guitar solos in "thrash"

why even bring up Queen ?

You're right, my bad.

Dark Horseman wrote:

You're right, my bad.

I am the only poster who can go on rabbit trails

Pfft, not a chance. This board is a rabbit trail.

There's nothing like a great solo over a heavy riff. Players like Rocky George, Dimebag and Tommy Victor were cool because they played a bit outside the box of what others were doing.